I've seen some criticism of the Investigator recently.
I really like the core of the class. The main combat feature is solid with some thought. The martial core, the skills, the high perception are great.
But most of the subsequent features are just fluff and aren't important in combat. Contrast powers like Clue Them All In to give allies a +1 to an investigation check that they probably weren't planning on rolling anyway, to powers like Analyze Weakness that the Rogue gets. Which clearly also should be available in some form to the Investigator. Then there are powers like Suspect of Opportunity which look like they should be useful, but I can't see that there is anything significant tied to Pursue a Lead. Is there something I'm missing here?
Yes its very disappointing, it looks incomplete and needs to be patched.
Anyway there is enough that an Investigator can get out of other archetypes like Wizard/ Rogue/ Fighter/ LoreMaster that you can still have a very good build.
I'm trying to put together some basic mechanical advice for new players who want to use the class and keep it as concise as possible. So feedback on the following would also be appreciated.
Investigator
A perceptive martial with extra skills. The Investigator’s main combat feature is Devise a Stratagem. To get good value from this class you need to be able to do something that is not a Strike when a bad die roll comes up.
Some good options:
*Strike at another target which is going to be easier to do with a ranged or reach weapon,
*multiclass into a caster (Witch or Wizard) and pick up an offensive cantrip or spell,
*use an Athletics skill roll like Trip/Grab/Shove/Disarm.
The Methodologies don’t make any major difference to your build. Alchemical Sciences is the most useful. Choose the one you like.
Most of the Investigator class feats are just fluff (cute but barely useful in combat) so cherry pick from what is reasonable, and don’t be afraid to invest elsewhere to gain a good reaction or more magic.
Ranged Investigator
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int18 Wis 12 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Studded Leather, Rapier, Bow
Class Feats: Level 1: Known Weaknesses, Level 2:Wizard Dedication
Later Shared Stratagem, Didactic Strike seem good. Loremaster when you can fit it in.
Or if you want to have a reasonable Athletics skill to do grabs and trips then
Athletic Investigator
Str 16 Dex 10 Con 12 Int18 Wis 12 Cha 10
With Armor Proficiency and Sentinel when you can get it.
Basic equipment: Breastplate or Full Plate, Rapier, Whip
Class Feats: Level 1: Known Weaknesses, Level 2:Wizard Dedication (more important as you don’t have a good ranged attack). For you Athletic Strategist is largely a trap as it stops you from getting value from Devise a Stratagem.
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I would specifically advise against taking Athletic Stratagem. That feat takes Athletics maneuvers off the menu of "Things to do to that target when your stratagem is bad".
I think an important thing to consider if you plan to do melee, is athletic strategem. It allows you to diversity your DAS since you choose what check to do before you replace your roll. If you know a strike will miss, a trip or grapple might get through since your skills scale faster than your strikes. Plus, scoring a crit also gives you access to all the critical athletics effects of your choice.
The problem is if you take athletic stratagem you lose the ability to use athletics as a backup if your DAS roll is bad, because athletic stratagem says you must use your DAS roll on your first athletics check.
... It's off the top of my head the only feat in the game that actually takes away your ability to do something, which is a little weird, but it makes it a questionable pickup.
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But most of the subsequent features are just fluff and aren't important in combat. Contrast powers like Clue Them All In to give allies a +1 to an investigation check that they probably weren't planning on rolling anyway,
The way to think of Clue Them All In is insurance. You'll probably roll the checks first, but sometimes you'll fail the check and need to help your allies succeed instead.
to powers like Analyze Weakness that the Rogue gets. Which clearly also should be available in some form to the Investigator
That feat would actually be waaaay stronger on an Investigator than a Rogue, which is no doubt why it requires more sneak attack dice than a multiclass rogue could get. With the assured accuracy of Devise a Strategem letting you know if you should even bother spending the action, it is probably edging into too good territory.
Then there are powers like Suspect of Opportunity which look like they should be useful, but I can't see that there is anything significant tied to Pursue a Lead. Is there something I'm missing here?
You're missing that Devise a Stratagem is a free action against your lead. It is actually an insanely good feat, especially if your GM doesn't give you much opportunity to Pursue a Lead just before a fight. Even if they do it lets you use it on two enemies in a fight.
Without citing other features, I'm not especially sure why you think the class is so half baked. Pursue a Lead just makes it mathematically better at most skills any other class. (I guess Outwit Ranger can be better but that sacrifices a lot of combat power to do it.) I will say a bunch of the feats are super GM/campaign dependent. They basically work along Dungeon World principles instead of D&D.
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this is my favorite way to demonstrate how DAS works from media.
I mean there's a 100% chance that scene is what inspired DAS, so that makes sense.
But most of the subsequent features are just fluff and aren't important in combat. Contrast powers like Clue Them All In to give allies a +1 to an investigation check that they probably weren't planning on rolling anyway,The way to think of Clue Them All In is insurance. You'll probably roll the checks first, but sometimes you'll fail the check and need to help your allies succeed instead.
to powers like Analyze Weakness that the Rogue gets. Which clearly also should be available in some form to the InvestigatorThat feat would actually be waaaay stronger on an Investigator than a Rogue, which is no doubt why it requires more sneak attack dice than a multiclass rogue could get. With the assured accuracy of Devise a Strategem letting you know if you should even bother spending the action, it is probably edging into too good territory.
A mastermind rogue is going to be as good as an investigator or very very close. So I don't agree with your point. Regardless some more appropriately balanced powers like that would be good.
You're missing that Devise a Stratagem is a free action against your lead. It is actually an insanely good feat, especially if your GM doesn't give you much opportunity to Pursue a Lead just before a fight.
My question here is what skills does Purse a Lead actually work on? To me its wording like it applies to very little.Whenever you attempt a Perception or skill check to investigate a designated subject, you gain a +1 circumstance bonus to the check. So Perception Checks, Interrogation and Recall Knowledge? That's it
I think that Investigator, like Alchemist, has a lot of its power pulled into non-combat adventuring. So if combat is the only yardstick being used to measure it with, it is going to come up short.
I think that Investigator, like Alchemist, has a lot of its power pulled into non-combat adventuring. So if combat is the only yardstick being used to measure it with, it is going to come up short.
Look that is fine if it has a lot of non combat abilities as long as the core chasis of the class is solid in combat (which it is here). You can take these abilities for out of combat use or just because they are great role playing value. Ultimately combats are a bit part of the game, so most players especially the optimiser types want to be effective, and even those that aren't still want to hold their own in this part the game.
Hadn't realized that's how it's worded, unfortunate if you bump strength significantly, otherwise, I think it makes up for that with the ability to use athletics more consistently in tandem with strikes. Especially if you have 10 or less strength.
Yes it only really makes sense if athletics is not something you were going to use otherwise.
The point of suspect of opportunity is for combat. it'll save you an action per round as long as the target is alive. Your lead doesn't do much else in the middle of a fight.
Yes but my question is what are you doing with it in combat?
I think that Investigator, like Alchemist, has a lot of its power pulled into non-combat adventuring. So if combat is the only yardstick being used to measure it with, it is going to come up short.
I think a lot of the difficulty also comes down to having a GM willing to play ball. A lot of abilities are kind of open ended. Regarding combat, being able to reliably DaS as a free action gives them a lot more flexibility and depending on your GM it can either be something you have around almost every important fight or something you get against a single enemy once per story arc (or less).
... I think one pain point here might be the rogue though, because it also gets a lot of out of combat utility while having a much higher ceiling in combat. Investigator definitely has an edge out of combat... but is that edge significant enough that DaS needs to be so much less efficient than SA? Is the extra restriction on their skill feats really necessary?
Though I think that's less an investigator thing and more that "Was that really necessary?" could just be the APG's tagline.
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I played an alchemical studies/eldritch archer for a while in Agents of Edgewatch before throwing up my hands in frustration and respeccing into magus. Here are some things I learned;
- The class as a whole spends a lot of its class feature budget on nebulous out of combat stuff. Much more so than other classes. And a lot of it is "aha! a clue!" kinda stuff. Which seems okay for you know, an investigator. But when an adventure is written to be doable by the lowest common denominator, that feels a bit redundant.
- I was trying not to get into some other players' niches by not going the medical route and not stealing the social spot. But then you end with the problem that there aren't that many interesting Intelligence based skill feats and you don't have much to choose from for your odd levels. Conclusion: you probably want to add a minor focus on Cha or Wis, or at least Assurance/Medicine. Just to have something to usefully put those skill feats. Really this class would work better if there were just more decent skill feats.
- As a general play style, you should be trying very hard to always figure out what case you need to pursue next to ensure you're all studied up for the next fight. That means you have to be very alert during play. Getting free action DAS is very good, but you have to be constantly pursuing leads whenever any door looks like it has something significant behind it.
- The eldritch archer build really didn't work well. Mainly because three-action abilities are just not practical. I think an archery/electric arc from wizard multiclass build would have worked smoother and not been all that different in damage.
- Known Weakness feat is not for the +1 to hit, it's for action economy. It was kinda nice to DAS, see your roll result and maybe get some knowledge, and then decide what kind of actual attack to do. Like, if your roll is meh but you figure out it's got a weakness, toss a splash bomb. Known Weaknesses is an example of the kind of feats the class should have more of.
- A plan B for when your DAS roll looks poor, is essential. That's as fundamental to building a decent investigator as "what do you do with your third action" is to a martial. You need to answer that to qualify for not-lame build. Your options include spell attacks (which can't be DASed), maneuvers (but only really if you have high strength or highly trained athletics with assurance) and splash weapons which just need to not critfail. And there's always just attacking a different target. As it turns out, if you start combat with a lead, it's usually the boss so each round you consider if you have a real shot at the boss, and if not, you take out your frustrations on the henchmen. But to efficiently switch enemies, that's easier with a ranged weapon than when you have to move.
- I don't think athletic strategist is as bad as that. If you're not boosting strength as high as you can, then turning a poor DAS roll into a new roll with a poor maneuver doesn't look good to me either. If you don't have lots of strength, then with DAS you can occasionally to a good maneuver with Int and otherwise just resort to a different plan B for poor DAS roll.
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I still have a PFS investigator, who's totally not a Bloody Barber. Goblin, no wisdom to speak of, Assurance/Medicine/Forensics route, mostly melee with a Bloodletting Kukri. That one works pretty well, has some social skills, hits fairly hard, not too squishy.
If I was going to make another investigator, I'd probably consider going bow-heavy again. The extra damage from DAS doesn't really care much about the base weapon, so even somewhat unimpressive weapons like the shortbow function ok.
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Yes but my question is what are you doing with it in combat?
I feel like something isn't clicking for you here. This is the equivalent of having haste cast on you for most martials. Except it happens as a reaction once an hour. Do you really not see what being quickened is doing in combat?
My question here is what skills does Purse a Lead actually work on? To me its wording like it applies to very little.Whenever you attempt a Perception or skill check to investigate a designated subject, you gain a +1 circumstance bonus to the check. So Perception Checks, Interrogation and Recall Knowledge? That's it
Almost any mental skill action can be tied to an investigation. Not sure what isn't clicking here, either. But you can easily apply it to:
Seek
Sense Motive
Recall Knowledge
Borrow an Arcane Spell
Decipher Writing
Identify Magic
Learn a Spell
Earn Income
Treat Disease
Treat Poison
Track
Create a Forgery
Hide/Sneak (to spy on someone)
Gather Information
Repair
Craft
Impersonate
Lie
Request
Make an Impression
That pretty much covers all the skill actions outside Athletics and Acrobatics. (And thievery, but only because they made a feat to do something the base ability implies it can already do.) And if you're actively Pursuing New Leads as you go, you're going to get that bonus on almost every skill check you ever make. At least, outside of combat.
A mastermind rogue is going to be as good as an investigator or very very close.
No it won't. A rogue doesn't get anything equivalent to the permanent floating circumstance bonus that is Pursue a Lead. That bonus becomes +2 at level 9, by the way, at which point the Investigator is essentially a whole proficiency tier above the rogue any time it is rolling a check about a lead. (Which, again, should be most of your checks.) And in fact that becomes more than just a math thing at level 11, when you started to treat trained skills as expert proficiency and expert skills at master. Suddenly proficiency gated hazards are a heckuva lot easier. Most checks to disable a trap are really just investigating how the thing works.
Rogues don't actually get anything pushing them ahead of the math curve like Investigators get. They get twice as many skills as other classes but can't be a better specialist at any given one skill. Well, not without using skill based class feats, but the rogue doesn't want to start comparing those to an investigator, at least not when it comes to knowledge.
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I want to try out the medic archetype with the forensics investigator. Would make a potent non magical doctor character. Probably works better with alchemical studies but you get some hefty healing with medics battle medicine combined with forensics.
I did Forensics/Medic with my melee investigator, Doctor's Visitation is really really good. It works pretty nicely, the healing is solid and the action economy clicks together, and it doesn't take up all of your character building budget so you have some left over to be interesting in more ways.
Almost any mental skill action can be tied to an investigation. Not sure what isn't clicking here, either. But you can easily apply it to:
Thanks for your reply. I do want to understand the differences in our evaluation here. The rule again:
Whenever you attempt a Perception or skill check to investigate a designated subject, you gain a +1 circumstance bonus to the check. The exact checks this applies to depend on the actions you use to investigate and are determined by the GM, but checks to investigate are typically Perception checks or skill checks that use Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma.
Seek
Recall Knowledge
Yes these 2 are combat useful skills that PAL applies to.
Sense Motive
Borrow an Arcane Spell
Decipher Writing
Identify Magic
Learn a Spell
Earn Income
Treat Disease
Treat Poison
Track
Create a Forgery
Gather Information
Repair
Craft
Impersonate
Lie
Request
Make an Impression
These are not really combat skills actions. Many have the Exploration trait. I mean they are useful skills. It is nice to get a circumstance bonus. Some you could try to use in combat in very special circumstances but typically no. Plus it is very dubious if PAL would apply to all of these.
Hide/Sneak (to spy on someone)
Combat skill? Yes. PAL? Dubious. I'd say not. Thats a very lenient GM to give you this. I mean is PAL really applying to all skill checks while I'm on this mission? That would be strong but I just don't see it says that.
That pretty much covers all the skill actions outside Athletics and Acrobatics. (And thievery, but only because they made a feat to do something the base ability implies it can already do.) And if you're actively Pursuing New Leads as you go, you're going to get that bonus on almost every skill check you ever make. At least, outside of combat.
Not even close to covering. What about Coerce?
Or the important skill actions that are commonly used in combat like Demoralise, Feint, Create a Diversion, or the Diplomacy Check in Bon Mot?
Is PAL applying to these? No it needs to be a check to investigate
A mastermind rogue is going to be as good as an investigator or very very close.No it won't. A rogue doesn't get anything equivalent to the permanent floating circumstance bonus that is Pursue a Lead. That bonus becomes +2 at level 9, by the way, at which point the Investigator is essentially a whole proficiency tier above the rogue any time it is rolling a check about a lead...
The circumstance bonus is very good. But to my mind PAL doesn't apply to most of the combat significant skills, largely just out of combat one. At which point out of combat it is reasonably possible to get a good circumstance bonus from somewhere else, eg Aid from an ally is highly likely to get you at least a +1.
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Again, the useful part of Pursue a Lead for combat is the free action DaS. The skill bonus is incidental and generally for out of combat. People keep saying this and you keep not acknowledging it and it is bizarre. In combat the only time the bonus will regularly come up is Recall Knowledge.
But given how often you're rolling Recall Knowledge as an Investigator that's fine. Known Weakness let's you do it once a round as a free action. Other feats let you do things like Recall Knowledge five times for a single action. Recall Knowledge is basically the premier in combat skill action for the class. And if you fail the check, you can help your allies succeed where you failed without spending the actions on aid. (How good this is varies, obviously, because of the much discussed table variance for RK. But if it is good at your table no one does it better than the investigator.)
And you're right that Aid can help fill the gap out of combat but Aid isn't nearly as reliable. Your ally has to roll for it and can potentially inflict a penalty instead. And there are a lot of circumstances where your ally is better off making their own check or their time is better spent doing your own thing.
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I guess the question might be what do you do with the action freed for DaS by Pursue a lead ?
When DaS costs an action : DaS, Strike or Action B, third action.
When DaS is free : DaS, Strike or Action B, third action and what ?
Could be another Strike (but without +INT), could be cast a 2-actions spell (but needs caster dedication)...
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A fundamental issue of investigator is not just that you have to spend an action most of the time to get your bonus damage, but also just to hit on par with other martials. Your non-Devise strikes are just kind of sad, being less accurate and much lower damage than the ideal scenario. Rogues don't really have to worry about that. Plus, the action requirement of Devise is going to necessitate playing ranged - if you try to play melee (and good luck with that) most rounds are going to be "devise, move, strike", with no chance to actually move away for safety or do anything interesting.
I GM for an investigator who's gone in to Unexpected Sharpshooter and it's done wonders for him, but also I bought Augunas' Infinite Reforged: Investigators to get some more juice in it for combat. The investigator player has spent 9 levels feeling like she's not contributed much to combat, but spicing in some more combat features for the class does a lot to keep it feeling relevant, especially in comparison to a rogue. The class having like, 2 combat-relevant feats does not do it any favors in a game that is by default designed around combat as a core experience, as essentially all d20 games are.
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Second strike is pretty much never my choice for an Investigator's third action, except against Oozes I guess.It's you the one who wondered about combat actions an investigator could have used with the extra action given by not having to pay for DAS.
I like the second Strike, since it's just +1 behind any other combatant for 50% of the journey ( 1-4 and 10-14 and 20 ), which is not that much.
Not liking the second strike would be like not hitting twice with any combatants but fighter/gunslinger, or eventually a flurry ranger.
You're only taking into account bonus to attack. Martials who do not have the Fighter's higher proficiency usually have higher damage, through features such as Sneak Attack or Rage, to make up for it on average.
If Rogues could never get Sneak Attack or Barbarians their Rage damage on their second or later attacks, it would be a bit more comparable, even though their attack stat would still be primary to the Investigator's secondary.
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Other issue I have with the Investigator, even though I love the class and DAS, is that, if you have a Rogue in the party, you might as well forget being the trap specialist since the Rogue usually has DEX as their primary stat, while you don't.
TBH, as much as I love the Investigator, I feel the optimal choice is to use another Martial class and pick the Investigator MC Dedication.
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Second strike is pretty much never my choice for an Investigator's third action, except against Oozes I guess.It's you the one who wondered about combat actions an investigator could have used with the extra action given by not having to pay for DAS.
I like the second Strike, since it's just +1 behind any other combatant for 50% of the journey ( 1-4 and 10-14 and 20 ), which is not that much.
Not liking the second strike would be like not hitting twice with any combatants but fighter/gunslinger, or eventually a flurry ranger.
You're only taking into account bonus to attack. Martials who do not have the Fighter's higher proficiency usually have higher damage, through features such as Sneak Attack or Rage, to make up for it on average.
If Rogues could never get Sneak Attack or Barbarians their Rage damage on their second or later attacks, it would be a bit more comparable, even though their attack stat would still be primary to the Investigator's secondary.
Champions and monk don't get additional damage, still they are combatants ( though tanks ), same goes with the swashbuckler, whose finisher forbids him from attacking again ( this one is somehow the counterpart of the investigator in terms of mechanics ).
But I get your point and agree.
It's always a matter of priorities when it comes down to combat, so if as an investigator I were to have an extra action, I'd consider possibilities ( but extra damage, though not comparable to a sneak attack from a rogue or the barbarian rage, is always welcome as it would contribute bringing down enemies ).
IIRC those classes, except maybe Swashbuckler, have great action economy features for mobility (Monk) and defense (Champion). And the Swashbuckler can inflict damage on a miss.
The Investigator has none of this. The best thing they can do in a fight, apart from DaS, is casting a spell. And they need caster dedication for that.
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Other issue I have with the Investigator, even though I love the class and DAS, is that, if you have a Rogue in the party, you might as well forget being the trap specialist since the Rogue usually has DEX as their primary stat, while you don't.
The rogue is one point ahead from it's key stat at most. (Assuming you max dex as best you can on the investigator, but if you want to specialize in in trap finding you probably will, especially as a finesse class with light armor proficiency.) That +1 difference can often be made up by Pursue a Lead, and by 9th level overtake it. There's also the 11th level feature to deal with proficiency gates, which is unlikely to matter on traps if you're keeping thievery maxed but means you can deal with haunts and environmental hazards much better.
But also... why are you putting two trap specialists in the same party exactly? Maxing the same skills your teammates have is rarely a good idea. I guess you can't avoid it in PFS, but it isn't like traps disabling is unique there.
Again, the useful part of Pursue a Lead for combat is the free action DaS. The skill bonus is incidental and generally for out of combat. People keep saying this and you keep not acknowledging it and it is bizarre. In combat the only time the bonus will regularly come up is Recall Knowledge.
But given how often you're rolling Recall Knowledge as an Investigator that's fine. Known Weakness let's you do it once a round as a free action. Other feats let you do things like Recall Knowledge five times for a single action. Recall Knowledge is basically the premier in combat skill action for the class. And if you fail the check, you can help your allies succeed where you failed without spending the actions on aid. (How good this is varies, obviously, because of the much discussed table variance for RK. But if it is good at your table no one does it better than the investigator.)
And you're right that Aid can help fill the gap out of combat but Aid isn't nearly as reliable. Your ally has to roll for it and can potentially inflict a penalty instead. And there are a lot of circumstances where your ally is better off making their own check or their time is better spent doing your own thing.
Cool. Its just your evaluation of it was so strong compared to mine I was wondering if there was anything else. It seems that bascially there is not. We aren't substantially disagreeing about the rules.
Purse a Lead is a good bonus to Recall Knowledge. Which an Investigator will do a lot in combat. Because its free with Devise a Stratagem
The point is PAL is a good bonus for the Investigator. Suspect of Opportunity is useful and good in this regard.
But Clue Them All In, Lead Investigator are vary marginal depending on whether you actually have another party member with relevant skills
Anyway looking further I think I may have found what I'm looking for:
Detective's Readiness I think is a key feat. Its is not really valued in the Investigator class guides I can find. But surely it is important. Hopefully you are pursuing the boss. Often that boss will be making you roll saving throws. This is a pretty significant defensive bonus. This could potentially make Clue Them All In good, and Suspect of Opportunity great.
???
That's a pretty good feat, yes. But Suspect of Opportunity is already great for the action economy. DaS as a free action is just that good. That's extra actions you can use to move, hide, use battle medicine, or cast a cantrip.
That's a pretty good feat, yes. But Suspect of Opportunity is already great for the action economy. DaS as a free action is just that good. That's extra actions you can use to move, hide, use battle medicine, or cast a cantrip.
Yep I think I get it now. Thanks for your feedback. I'm now going to revise my basic advice to:
Investigator
A perceptive martial with extra skills. The Investigator’s main combat feature is Devise a Stratagem. To get good value from this class you need to be able to do something that is not a Strike when a bad die roll comes up.
Some good options:
*Strike at another target which is going to be easier to do with a ranged or reach weapon,
*multiclass into a caster (Magus, Witch or Wizard) and pick up an offensive cantrip or spell,
*use an Athletics skill roll like Trip/Grab/Shove/Disarm.
The second good thing that investigators do is Pursue a Lead. Which by itself is good but not compelling. It’s mostly for Seek and Recall Knowledge. However with Detective's Readiness you start to get important defensive bonuses which you can share around, and makes Suspect of Opportunity even more useful beyond being a reaction/free action Devise a Stratagem.
The Methodologies don’t make any major difference to your build. Alchemical Sciences is the most useful. Choose the one you like.
Many of the Investigator class feats are just fluff (cute but barely useful in combat) so cherry pick from what is reasonably effective, and don’t be afraid to invest in other archetypes. Here are 2 build outlines with what I think is core:
Ranged Investigator
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int18 Wis 12 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Studded Leather, Rapier, Bow
Class Feats: Level 1: Known Weaknesses, Level 2:Wizard Dedication, Level 4: Detective's Readiness, Level 10 Suspect of Opportunity
Other Options: Shared Stratagem, Didactic Strike, Loremaster.
Athletic Investigator
Str 16 Dex 10 Con 12 Int18 Wis 12 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Breastplate or Full Plate, Rapier, Whip
Class Feats: Level 1: Known Weaknesses, Level 2:Wizard Dedication, Level 4: Detective's Readiness, Level 10 Suspect of Opportunity
With Armor Proficiency and Sentinel when you can get it. Having Strength means you miss out on good ranged attacks but you have a reasonable Athletics skill to do grabs and trips as a Plan B. For you Athletic Strategist is largely a trap as it stops you from getting value from Devise a Stratagem.
Thanks. Two new builds for the Investigator
The Botanist
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Studded Leather, Rapier, Bow
Class Feats: Level 1: Known Weaknesses, Level 2: Beastmaster Dedication , Level 4: Mature Beastmaster Companion, Detective's Readiness, Level 8: Incredible Beastmaster Companion, Level 10 Suspect of Opportunity, Level 14: Specialized Beastmaster Companion
The Old General, or The Director
Str 10 Dex 12 Con 10 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 16
Basic equipment: Breastplate, Guisarme , Bow
Class Feats: Level 1: Known Weaknesses, Level 2: Marshal Dedication, Level 4: Detective's Readiness, Level 8: To Battle , Level 10: Suspect of Opportunity
Skills: Diplomacy, Intimidation, Deception …
This character only attacks when the Stratagem is right - but can use almost any weapon. Otherwise this character yells orders and intimidates people. This is one of very few builds that suits the Interrogation Methodology, as it is taking both Charisma and Intelligence. It requires Armor Proficiency. The build is a lot weaker defensively and should not be considered for the front rank. Because it is based on a d10 martial it can mostly get away with it.
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I think Forensic Method/Medic Dedication + Melee is a notable path.
You can decide to ignore Wisdom if you use Assurance, which will let you auto-Treat/Battle Medicine at level 2 (Trained DC), 6 (Expert DC) although master DC will be a long wait. But for PFS purposes that's not such an issue. Doctor's Visitation fixes the action economy.
The Assurance route leaves open Charisma as something to spend on. Although spending on Wisdom is probably more optimal.
I think Forensic Method/Medic Dedication + Melee is a notable path.
Are you meaning one or the other of Forensic Method or Medic archetype? Because those seem a bit redundant to take both. Not completely, but a bit.