The Slavery Thing


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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It feels really weird to posit people who will hold it against Paizo when they won't make stories about whatever. Since Paizo has always made stories about some things, but not others.

The first 27 APs were not about a Martial Arts tournament, the last one is not about a Martial Arts. tournament, and the three we've had solicited are not about a Martial Arts tournament. Should I, as a fan of Martial Arts tournaments in fantasy stories, hold this against Paizo or should I just treasure Ruby Phoenix and if they get around to doing another one, then that's great.


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Squiggit wrote:
Dracology wrote:
It feels kinda irresponsible for the caretakers of a world to just kinda say "Well were not going to detail certain kinds of content anymore we already established existed" I kind feel like its the responsibility of the world builders to detail the ugly bits of their world so there can be a shared expectation and baseline when one moves from table to table.
Isn't that kind of backwards? The people who run and create a world can write whatever stories they want about it, that's the advantage of creating your own setting.

In the future people won't know everything about the older lore and it will feel more natural, but at the moment this does feel a bit like closing the barn door after the horses have bolted. The good news is that, while the best time to do this was when the setting was created, the second-best time is now.


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Rysky wrote:

“Imagine me writing about how elves are different from humans and to stop projecting human culture into them.”

You mean the fantasy human race with pointy ears written by humans and played by humans in a fantasy game made by humans?

Most demons, devils, and avenging angels in d20 fantasy games are also just people with some bits added, do you also treat them as being human proxies? If not, why and where exactly do you draw the line?


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Saedar wrote:

Nazi artists don't get to make nazi art.

I would have thought that was exactly what they do. Freedom of speech is not freedom only for the speech we like.


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Saedar wrote:
Nazi artists don't get to make nazi art.

Unless the laws have changed for the drastically worse, they do. You're free to shout at them for having done so, but they are equally free to make it.


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BloodandDust wrote:
If those who claim to hate slavery, really do, then they should encourage fighting and killing slavers as a recurring theme in fantasy gaming.

So writers who "claim" to hate slavery (but maybe they don't, really) and who don't want to keep writing about it, need to be forced to write about it because it will make the world a better place?


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I'm not a huge critic of the idea of not telling stories about slavery anymore, because I understand it's an uncomfortable topic that writers and players might not be willing to engage with, but I do smell burning plot threads. One of the hooks in Legends was about the rise of abolitionism in the Inner Sea region. It looks like that's going to happen outside of official adventures if it's even acknowledged, although it looked like there was room for players to intervene in some way. I spent some time thinking about how exactly that might shake down. A Firebrands AP set in the Shackles where players raid Cheliaxian and Okeno slave galleys? A Golden Road adventure which starts with convincing Satrap Xerbystes to abolish slavery before everyone gets caught up in a battle against the divs? It's kind of immature to say they weren't planning to tell these stories at all after such a short period in Second Edition's lifespan after they already dedicated some space to do so. It is a rather sudden decision, and I wonder who exactly was invested in such stories in the first place if this choice was made to ensure the safety of both the players and the writers involved. Overall, though, I can't say I'm upset. As Luis Loza said, it's possible to tell stories about oppression while leaving slavery in the background, so my only hope is that I get to kick in Olordaera's slimy maw at some point.

Silver Crusade

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GM_3826 wrote:
I'm not a huge critic of the idea of not telling stories about slavery anymore, because I understand it's an uncomfortable topic that writers and players might not be willing to engage with, but I do smell burning plot threads. One of the hooks in Legends was about the rise of abolitionism in the Inner Sea region. It looks like that's going to happen outside of official adventures if it's even acknowledged, although it looked like there was room for players to intervene in some way. I spent some time thinking about how exactly that might shake down. A Firebrands AP set in the Shackles where players raid Cheliaxian and Okeno slave galleys? A Golden Road adventure which starts with convincing Satrap Xerbystes to abolish slavery before everyone gets caught up in a battle against the divs? It's kind of immature to say they weren't planning to tell these stories at all after such a short period in Second Edition's lifespan after they already dedicated some space to do so. It is a rather sudden decision, and I wonder who exactly was invested in such stories in the first place if this choice was made to ensure the safety of both the players and the writers involved. Overall, though, I can't say I'm upset. As Luis Loza said, it's possible to tell stories about oppression while leaving slavery in the background, so my only hope is that I get to kick in Olordaera's slimy maw at some point.

The good news here is that if those are plots you wanted to follow, Paizo offers the Pathfinder Infinite program to either write your own or wait for someone else to write one. I guarantee someone will make an AP of this variety.


Cori Marie wrote:
The good news here is that if those are plots you wanted to follow, Paizo offers the Pathfinder Infinite program to either write your own or wait for someone else to write one. I guarantee someone will make an AP of this variety.

Huh, you're right. I should definitely look into following that program.

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Thread locked for the holiday weekend.

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