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Tribal Bond for reference, it's about halfway down the linked page.
I have a player who has used Tribal Bond as an all-day thing. I recently looked it up because that seemed a bit OP, and we ended up in a debate. Here's the issue: it says the effect is "as Telepathic Bond." Well, Telepathic Bond says it lasts 10 minutes per level.
Argument in favor of it lasting all day: it says the shaman gets this when she "communes with her spirit animal to regain spells." So you don't get to pick a time to start the effect. So it would seem to be a "when you start the day" thing, which argues in favor of it lasting all day. If it doesn't last all day, I'd want the players to be able to pick when it triggers.
Argument in favor of it not lasting all day: Telepathic Bond says it won't.
What's the verdict for the rules lawyers here? Both RAW and RAI would be welcome.
Its an all day thing from what I can see. The ability says . . .
Tribal Bond (Sp): The shaman and her tribe share a transcendent bond. Once per day when she communes with her spirit animal to regain spells, the shaman can select a number of creatures equal to half her shaman level to serve as her honorary tribe. These creatures can constantly communicate with each other, as telepathic bond.
so once per day when communing to regain spells the shaman can select creatures equal to half her level as an honorary tribe. Those creatures all day can communicate according to telepathic bonds workings. That is telepathically communicate with each other over any distance.
If it doesn't last all day, I'd want the players to be able to pick when it triggers.
This. The fact that the activation time is tied to regaining spells, i.e. a fixed time each day, is an extremely strong indication that it's supposed to last all day.
Also, the ability only says that the communication is "as telepathic bond", that's a significantly different language from abilities that straight up work like specific spells.
Technically, the ability doesn't give any end-point, so RAW any creature selected is forever linked. Of course, that's nonsense, it's clearly supposed to be only until the next time you pick targets. The spirit is from a softcover book written when Paizo had already all but abandoned PF1, so content editing wasn't exactly a high priority.
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I think its a RAW vs RAI issue. As written its all day which may or may not be balanced if annoying (don't know enough about the class to judge) but there are examples of both. Whether the original author intended it to be something else is a different discussion.
Personally I'd run it as all day since telepathic communication is not going to be that big a deal unless the party are co-ordinating sneaking or similar activities which is when they'd want to activate it to begin with.
Hiking in the woods not much different between thinking "Mind the snake" and saying "Mind the snake.
Ambush's might be a an issue if one party member spots them and silently alerts the others.
Sneaking would as I said above be when you'd activate it anyway.
Combat could have an advantage of providing silent co-ordination but unless it allows mind to mind vs group which I don't think telepathic bond your still dealing with (a) confusion as different people talk and (b) as we go round by initiative vs real time simultaneous its not really going to be that big a deal especially as its generally been more of a pain to enforce players don't talk out of game in those situations although your group might be different.
Splitting the party here's a big difference as they can alert the other party members to their being attacked but again you could have means of allowing that anyway.
Communicating with someone speaking antoher language wont help till the next time they regain spells when they can nominate them as a tribe member if they hang around and let you do so.
Basically to me its either not going to be an issue or it'll be a situation where they would be activating these abilites anyway.
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RAW, it seems to last until you pick a different group of people or until you lose access to the spirit.
RAI, no idea, I can't read the writer's mind and it doesn't give useful hints on how it is intended to work.
Balance-wise, it is an ability that the shaman get at 8th level, and that affects from 4 to 10 people, while the spell is a 5th level spell that a spellcaster gets as a minimum at level 9, and that affects from 4 to 7 people.
If I were the GM, probably I would have the shaman choose the targets when he memorizes his spells, but it will be inactive until the shaman activates it spending a standard action. After activation, it will have a duration of 10 minutes/level. I am fairly sure that it is not RAW or RAI, simply my way of balancing it. Some experience with a party using it could change my opinion.
considering an 8th level arcane caster can just use message to connect up to 8 people at will (and while it's more limited in many aspects, non to hindering. talking is free action that can be made out of turn after all) i would just leave it at duration = until the next time you use it\change spirits.
if it's only up by level 8 it should do a lot better then a cantrip to merit taking it, and the duration is a big factor. why take up an 8th level ability when a level 0 spell can replace it most of the time and be used all day? for the few times telepathy is better then straight up whispering and the greater distance would matter it's not worth that much to wait 8 levels to get if it only last 80 minutes.
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considering an 8th level arcane caster can just use message to connect up to 8 people at will (and while it's more limited in many aspects, non to hindering. talking is free action that can be made out of turn after all) i would just leave it at duration = until the next time you use it\change spirits.
Message with a CL of 8 doesn't connect 8 people, it connects the caster to 7 different people. It is not a web that connects everyone, it is the spokes of a wheel that connect the center to 7 different terminus points unconnected between them.
The key parts of the description "You can whisper messages and receive whispered replies.", "When you whisper, the whispered message is audible to all targeted creatures within range" and "The creatures that receive the message can whisper a reply that you hear. " where "you" is the caster of message.
actually it connect him to up to one target per level so 8 plus himself. (otherwise at 1st level he'd be talking to himself)
and yes he is like a phone operator who need to be in the middle of the talk between each member... so what?
-talking is STILL a free action that can be done out of turn. (since they can answer back as free action it's only slightly less comfortable then direct telepathy)
it might be less convenient and they need to whisper and\or enemies might hear them. as i said it is more limited then telepathy. still for a level 8 power to only have that (and the range) above the cantrip and be limited to once per day is a lot less useful.
the level 8 power should jack up the overall usefulness not down. so it perform better for 80 min and then you have to go back to the cantrip. most of the time it would be better to use the cantrip and just get something else. (not to mention strict raw it ether start to work for 10 min/level the moment you get it a the start of the day if it's exactly like the spell or it work all day. the option to let you decide when to start it is a compromise)
As written, it's all day.
Balance considerations, it's all day.
Writer's intentions? Who gives a $#!+?
There is nothing broken or unbalanced about it, and it's literally just easier to run it all day. Pick your battles... this is a stupid hill to die on.
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actually it connect him to up to one target per level so 8 plus himself. (otherwise at 1st level he'd be talking to himself)
and yes he is like a phone operator who need to be in the middle of the talk between each member... so what?
-talking is STILL a free action that can be done out of turn. (since they can answer back as free action it's only slightly less comfortable then direct telepathy)it might be less convenient and they need to whisper and\or enemies might hear them. as i said it is more limited then telepathy. still for a level 8 power to only have that (and the range) above the cantrip and be limited to once per day is a lot less useful.
It says it connects you to the one you target, so it is 8 at level 8, you are correct. But you can say a few words for free, not work as a repeater for 8 people.
Speak
In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn’t your turn. Speaking more than a few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action.
A round is 6 seconds, total. If you want to work as a radio operator for 8 people, or even 4, I would time what you want to repeat.
Do you want to speak for the full 6 seconds during every round of every combat? Best for you to learn silent spell, as you are using all your speaking time to speak and 0 time to cast spells.Sorry, but to me, it seems that you are trying to abuse the system.
A cantrip can't be as good as a level 5 spell or a level 8 power.
I allow plenty of communication between the players, but they don't have the time to declaim the Independence Declaration every combat round.
the level 8 power should jack up the overall usefulness not down. so it perform better for 80 min and then you have to go back to the cantrip. most of the time it would be better to use the cantrip and just get something else. (not to mention strict raw it ether start to work for 10 min/level the moment you get it a the start of the day if it's exactly like the spell or it work all day. the option to let you decide when to start it is a compromise)
RAW, it seems to last until you pick a different group of people or until you lose access to the spirit.
RAI, no idea, I can't read the writer's mind and it doesn't give useful hints on how it is intended to work.
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I am fairly sure that it is not RAW or RAI, simply my way of balancing it.
So, what are you trying to confute? I did say that it is how I would use it.
What I did say (paraphrased) is that I don't feel that a level 8 power should be more than 20 times stronger than a level 5 spell when you receive it and still more than 7 times stronger at level 20.
Regardless of the class feature being a million times more strong than a 9th-level spell doesn't change the balance of overall gameplay in the slightest, for the particular class feature in question. To go out of your way to homebrew a "fix" for something so trivial is, in my opinion, ridiculously petty.