Can a Troll Tourniquet regrow eyes?

[Da Brain]

So, can a Troll Tourniquet (from Healers Handbook) regrow lost eyes?

[TxSam88]

RAW, only if you can wrap it around the eyeballs stump. (I'd allow it, say by stuffing the Troll Tourniquet into the eyehole)

[Azothath]

you mean Trollskin Tourniquet.
"can be easily wrapped around the stump of a severed limb (a finger, toe, hand, foot, arm, leg, tail, or even neck—though the last works only in the case of multi-headed creatures). The body part regrows over a period of 24 hours as long as the trollskin tourniquet is not removed. "
no, as the eye is not a limb (for humanoids).

On anatomy of the eye - Human eyes do not have stumps. There is a cluster of weak muscles around the eye, a large nerve (optic nerve) goes out the back and through the skull. The game doesn't really make these fine distinctions.

A Regeneration spell will fix the issue, & Cleanse Clr5, Heal Clr6. Remove Blindness will not work. Surmount Affliction (personal) Clr2 will work temporarily.
I will also use this as a case to support buying the Cracked Pearly White Spindle Ioun Stone $3400 and implanting at mid level play where an ounce of prevention would lead to a simple cure of this and similar issues.

[Da Brain]

LOL!
ok - two replies. One says yes, one says no.

So...
Let's say we have Bob the Unlucky, who has had his eyes removed. Normally this would be the end of a PC career, but the band of adventurers gained a bunch of loot which included a Trollskin Tourniquet (lets see if my Auto Correct changes Trollskin to Troll again).

Wrapping the Tourniquet around Bobs neck results in him dying by strangulation - but death is a easy condition to fix as the party has access to a 9th level cleric and the diamond dust... so they wait for the Tourniquet to repair Bobs body, re-growing his eyes and then have Raise Dead cast on him to bring him back from the dead with a new set of eyes.

Would that work?

[Melkiador]

I'd probably let it work just by wrapping it around the eye area of the head. I'd say the intent is clear enough without having to worry about the semantics of "stump".

[*Thelith]

Well... The eye is attached by one little "limb"... If the eye was removed it would have a little "stump"...

Can regrow a head on a hydra by not a single eye? Or an entire leg/arm/tail and not an eye?? I don't think so.

I'd allow it.

[Azothath]

I responded in a RAW manner according to the rules as they are and how I understand the system. In that narrow Rules Forum way it's clearly a NO.
Getting the 5th level spell cast by an NPC would be cheaper(9*5*10=450GP) AND fall within RAW. That's why I posted that information.

Personally as it is a one shot item I think the price is appropriate for the cure. So I agree that using a GM ruling it should work.

[OmniMage]

The price of a Trollskin Tourniquet 3,850 gp. The price of a scroll of regenerate is 2275 gp. In my view, since the magic item is more expensive than a scroll, so I don't see why it shouldn't work on something else other than a limb or stump. You're not cheating the system price wise. Though that said, I find it hard to imagine how to use it properly on an eye socket. A tourniquet is supposed to stop the flow of blood by wrapping itself tightly on a limb or stump to stop blood flow. I'm not sure how to apply one to an eye. Maybe apply it as an eye patch and hope it works.

[Diego Rossi]

OmniMage wrote:

The price of a Trollskin Tourniquet 3,850 gp. The price of a scroll of regenerate is 2275 gp. In my view, since the magic item is more expensive than a scroll, so I don't see why it shouldn't work on something else other than a limb or stump. You're not cheating the system price wise. Though that said, I find it hard to imagine how to use it properly on an eye socket. A tourniquet is supposed to stop the flow of blood by wrapping itself tightly on a limb or stump to stop blood flow. I'm not sure how to apply one to an eye. Maybe apply it as an eye patch and hope it works.

The scroll requires a caster with the spell in his spell list and (probably) a caster level check or a relatively hard UMD check, the Tornique doesn't.

Single use, use activated items have a price that is double that of Single use, spell completion items, so a single use, use activated item that doubles all the powers of a Regeneration scroll would cost 4,550 gp.

[OmniMage]

Diego Rossi wrote:

The scroll requires a caster with the spell in his spell list and (probably) a caster level check or a relatively hard UMD check, the Tornique doesn't.

Single use, use activated items have a price that is double that of Single use, spell completion items, so a single use, use activated item that doubles all the powers of a Regeneration scroll would cost 4,550 gp.

Good point. I shall ponder this.

[Melkiador]

You can’t entirely compare it to the regenerate spell. It takes 24 hours to finish. And doesn’t restore any hit point damage. The regenerate spell does more faster, so a scroll of it should be more expensive.

[Azothath]

Da Brain wrote:

...

Wrapping the Tourniquet around Bobs neck results in him dying by strangulation - but death is a easy condition to fix as the party has access to a 9th level cleric and the diamond dust... so they wait for the Tourniquet to repair Bobs body, re-growing his eyes and then have Raise Dead cast on him to bring him back from the dead with a new set of eyes.

Would that work?

The Trollskin works on corpses as described in its description.

Killing your comrade is an evil act even if it's to (eventually) restore him.
hmmmm... using Magic Jar(or similar spell) a divine caster could go into the afflicted and cast Cleanse (as it's a personal spell). Otherwise Heal (NPC casting $660, scroll $1650) is your go to spell.

[Da Brain]

Azothath wrote:

Da Brain wrote:

...

Wrapping the Tourniquet around Bobs neck results in him dying by strangulation - but death is a easy condition to fix as the party has access to a 9th level cleric and the diamond dust... so they wait for the Tourniquet to repair Bobs body, re-growing his eyes and then have Raise Dead cast on him to bring him back from the dead with a new set of eyes.

Would that work?

The Trollskin works on corpses as described in its description.

Killing your comrade is an evil act even if it's to (eventually) restore him.
Again, with a 9th level cleric why not just cast Cleanse?

Because (as per the GM) he doesn't have the Condition "Blinded" - he just doesn't have eyes right now? So for example, the spell Countless Eyes will give him "eyes" to see with (for 1 hour/level), but it would not allow someone who has had Blindness/Deafness cast on them see - they still have eyes, they just have the Condition "Blind". Bob on the other hand doesn't have the Condition, he just doesn't have eyes any more.

As to killing Bob being an evil act... well, my first response would be "Clearly, you don't know Bob", but then I think I can live with doing one or two evil acts if it's to restore a friends eyes, esp. if no one else is harmed in the cure. (Barring the long term actions of Bob once he has his eyes back).

[Azothath]

Da Brain wrote:

Because (as per the GM) he doesn't have the Condition "Blinded" - he just doesn't have eyes right now? So for example, the spell Countless Eyes will give him "eyes" to see with (for 1 hour/level), but it would not allow someone who has had Blindness/Deafness cast on them see - they still have eyes, they just have the Condition "Blind". Bob on the other hand doesn't have the Condition, he just doesn't have eyes any more.

...

If that's true then regular healing is all that's needed.

In a game sense Blinded is when you lose both eyes or when a magical effect causes loss of sight. I'm sure there's some text about monocular vision in the plethora of updates.

There are inbetween cases - loss of one finger, loss of a single eye or ear, etc that the game doesn't cover well. It's left to your GM.

I'm thinking in your home game case I'd turn it around and use the cleric's healing skill, spellcraft or knowledge arcana skills to query the GM on the solution. It doesn't seem like an issue with RAW and more a home game solution.

[Diego Rossi]

Azothath wrote:

Da Brain wrote:

Because (as per the GM) he doesn't have the Condition "Blinded" - he just doesn't have eyes right now? So for example, the spell Countless Eyes will give him "eyes" to see with (for 1 hour/level), but it would not allow someone who has had Blindness/Deafness cast on them see - they still have eyes, they just have the Condition "Blind". Bob on the other hand doesn't have the Condition, he just doesn't have eyes any more.

...

If that's true then regular healing is all that's needed.

In a game sense Blinded is when you lose both eyes or when a magical effect causes loss of sight. I'm sure there's some text about monocular vision in the plethora of updates.

I'm thinking in your home game case I'd turn it around and use the cleric's healing skill, spellcraft or knowledge arcana skills to query the GM on the solution. It doesn't seem like an issue with RAW and more a home game solution.

Regular healing doesn't restore lost parts, so why do you think it will restore lost eyes?