What Ancestries are you still craving?

[JiCi]

Jotunborn will come to Battlecry :O

Article from Polygon

that article wrote:

The new Jotunborn ancestry, a massive new option for player characters that resembles a classic giant, will provide new options for Commanders, Guardians, and other classes as well.

“Pathfinder has so many different types of giants,” Keeley said. “They are varying in size and temperament and society — representing them through our heritage system of an ancestry just wouldn’t feel satisfying enough. So I wanted to do something unique.”

A jotunborn and a green ally square off against armored opponents in a dark wood. Jotunborn hail from an alternate plane of existence, where they tend to giant beetles whose silk is used to create subdermal, ritualistic markings that glow on command.

“These are natural protectors and custodians,” Keeley said. “However, with the Godsrain, the War of Immortals, that caused a lot of chaos. So a lot of Jotunborn are coming out to help sort of clean up and they’re finding that they can’t go back home. A lot of them are just trapped in our setting and are getting introduced to the wider world.”

I know that they come from another world, but... if we can get heritages based on the various trueblood giants (not ogres and trolls), that would be great :D

[ornathopter]

Quote:

Paizo

Jotunborn hail from an alternate plane of existence, where they tend to giant beetles whose silk is used to create subdermal, ritualistic markings that glow on command.

Well that sounds weird and different! Sounds like there'll be Large and Medium options, as with the minotaur ancestries.

I've said it before, but since there's an ongoing thread about it right now, I'll say it again. I really hope we get a proper gargoyle ancestry someday. I could see that fitting into the Impossible playtest next to the runesmith and necromancer, maybe.

[keftiu]

I wonder where the Jotunborn are from!

[BotBrain]

Yeah, might just be because it's intended for general audiences, but I find it strange they didn't specify exactly where they're from. Perhaps its an up-to-now unknown plane of existence. We've certainly got precident for planes appearing out of seemingly nowhere.

[exequiel759]

I would prefer for this to not be another "somehow a new plane appeared...again".

I think its likely its one of the planes we already know but it wasn't mentioned which one because it ultimately it isn't really that important? I mean, the half giant part is likely the one thing most people would focus on a first glance.

However, if I had to be totally honest, reading the line "Jotunborn hail from an alternate plane of existence" for the first time made me think about they somehow came from an alternate reality. Pathfinder has some timeline shenanigans so I wouldn't be surprised if we delved into universe shenanigans too.

[BotBrain]

Bleugh i've had enough timeline media for a while. I hope not.

[TheTownsend]

The Polygon article also describes Cheliax as "demon worshiping", I think they just don't want to bog casual readers down with the specific lore. Speculation I've been seeing is that the Jotunborn might come from an elemental plane, or from Jotungard, the celestial realm of the Giant Gods on Elysium.
I won't dismiss the idea of a heretofore unknown demiplane, but I agree throwing more major shifts to the cosmology so soon after Rage of Elements is unlikely.

[BotBrain]

TheTownsend wrote:

The Polygon article also describes Cheliax as "demon worshiping", I think they just don't want to bog casual readers down with the specific lore. Speculation I've been seeing is that the Jotunborn might come from an elemental plane, or from Jotungard, the celestial realm of the Giant Gods on Elysium.

I won't dismiss the idea of a heretofore unknown demiplane, but I agree throwing more major shifts to the cosmology so soon after Rage of Elements is unlikely.

Excellent, no complaints from me then.

[JiCi]

BotBrain wrote:

Yeah, might just be because it's intended for general audiences, but I find it strange they didn't specify exactly where they're from. Perhaps its an up-to-now unknown plane of existence. We've certainly got precident for planes appearing out of seemingly nowhere.

Don't giants come from a different realm in Norse mythology?

I could see something similar for the Jotunborn.

[Justnobodyfqwl]

Driftbourne wrote:

Pronate11 wrote:

exequiel759 wrote:

25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:

doesn't have str or dex as key ability but have many feature and feat rely on hitting enemy

So is the thaumaturge, which is widely considered to be one of the best classes in the system and certainly one of the most popular too.

Is the thaumaturge a badly designed class?

not that I disagree with everything else, but the devs have stated that the thaumaturge is one of the least popular classes. It is very popular among experienced and active players who are likely to post about it, but not amongst the majority of more casual players who never post.

I think the problem for more casual players is out of all the classes the the thaumaturge is the class that is the least self-explanatory just looking at the name.

It's also a class that's kind of hard to wrap your head around in general. I felt like I only try recently had the class "click" when I read it. Before that, it felt like there was a kind of uncharacteristically abstract class concept and a lot of very small, overlapping, intricate class abilities.

It's only after a lot more system experience do I feel like it makes sense- you have a special lore, you can make checks with it to make weaknesses better or deal more damage. You have items that are subclasses, there's nonsense about hand restrictions, and your whole thing is symbolic magic through everyday items.

[Kavlor]

Some thoughts on who else could be in the playable races list:

Harpies - Let's be honest, they are basically the race we all think of when we think of flying people. And they would fit the theme of Casmaron perfectly. My main hope is that they will remain monogender. Especially since we already have the Surki.

Cyclops - Pathfinder has already done some work fleshing out the Cyclopes, and I could see an opportunity to give them their own flair in the setting. Especially given their innate talent for prophecy. A big ancestry intended for casters?

Fauns - The last of the folk from classical Greek mythology, but this time more closely related to the fairies.

Urmahlullu - Essentially the Wemics from Mesopotamian mythology. Haven't appeared in the Pathfinder universe, but let's be honest, I'd consider them a nice addition.

Fairy-Touched: I think we're missing a lineage like this that covers possible offspring from interbreeding with different varieties of fairies. Probably a Nephilim variety.

Garuda -- I think when it comes to Woodra, another type of flying ancestor would make a lot of sense for that region. Especially since they're already in the local mythology, and we know how much Pathfinder loves to plunder mythologies from around the world for playable races.

Rakshasa spawn -- I'm not really that excited about these, but I'm more interested in seeing how Paizo implements them. I liked how they handled the Oni, and now I want to see Rakshasa. And to be fair, I would like to see more demons, simply because I like the narrative of the war between the gods and titans at the dawn of creation, and the demons trying to turn humanity away from the worship of the gods in favor of the fallen titans.

For the gnomes, I would like to be able to play as the gnomes who survived the Bleaching. And perhaps something more aquatic-themed. Perhaps something inspired by turtles or crabs? Or, if I recall, there are myths in Korea that can be interpreted as merfolk whose lower body is not a fish, but an octopus. That could be an interesting option.

[moosher12]

Have a player who asks me every game I run about making a Harpy.

Would love fauns, Roll for Combat is getting Satyrs in a few months

Fairy touched always annoys me because there very much are fairy touched creatures that show up in the world. But the few ancestry feats they added just don't feel up to snuff.

Rakshasa spawn already exist as the beastbrood subtype of tieflings, which should be able to function on nephilim.

Bleachling gnomes I wanna see. Bleachlings are supposed to be super common by the time of Starfinder, so I'm hoping Starfinder 2E will include them, if not Pathfinder.

[Kavlor]

moosher12 wrote:

Rakshasa spawn already exist as the beastbrood subtype of tieflings, which should be able to function on nephilim.

Rakshasa are no longer Fiends, so Rakshasa Spawn can get treir own ancestry.

[Kavlor]

Thought of another ancestry that might make sense in the Pathfinder setting. And what about the Selkie? A good choice for an aquatic race that doesn't lose on land.

[moosher12]

Kavlor wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Rakshasa spawn already exist as the beastbrood subtype of tieflings, which should be able to function on nephilim.

Rakshasa are no longer Fiends, so Rakshasa Spawn can get treir own ancestry.

But until then, they do have an avenue.

[pixierose]

Kavlor wrote:

Thought of another ancestry that might make sense in the Pathfinder setting. And what about the Selkie? A good choice for an aquatic race that doesn't lose on land.

I would love a selkie ancestry

[BotBrain]

I'd also love a grindylow heritage for goblins. It's pretty easy to homebrew but I'd still love to play a water goblin offically.

[keftiu]

I haven't been annoying about Wyrwoods in a few pages, so here's my periodic reminder to everyone that I want Wyrwoods!

[JiCi]

keftiu wrote:

I haven't been annoying about Wyrwoods in a few pages, so here's my periodic reminder to everyone that I want Wyrwoods!

Yeah, it feels like Paizo is pairing ancestries with thematics for their next books. Is there a Construct Handbook coming? I could see Wyrwoods, new Automaton heritages and a "half-golem" versatile heritage being included.

A First World book would also be a good time to re-introduce Gathlains and to add a Nymph-blood versatile heritage.

[keftiu]

JiCi wrote:

keftiu wrote:

I haven't been annoying about Wyrwoods in a few pages, so here's my periodic reminder to everyone that I want Wyrwoods!

Yeah, it feels like Paizo is pairing ancestries with thematics for their next books. Is there a Construct Handbook coming? I could see Wyrwoods, new Automaton heritages and a "half-golem" versatile heritage being included.

My expectation has always been that Wyrwoods will be in a Lost Omens: Arcadia Character Guide. I'd be quite surprised to see them anywhere else - not that I'd mind having your construct book one bit, though!

[JiCi]

keftiu wrote:

JiCi wrote:

keftiu wrote:

I haven't been annoying about Wyrwoods in a few pages, so here's my periodic reminder to everyone that I want Wyrwoods!

Yeah, it feels like Paizo is pairing ancestries with thematics for their next books. Is there a Construct Handbook coming? I could see Wyrwoods, new Automaton heritages and a "half-golem" versatile heritage being included.

My expectation has always been that Wyrwoods will be in a Lost Omens: Arcadia Character Guide. I'd be quite surprised to see them anywhere else - not that I'd mind having your construct book one bit, though!

No, you're right, come to think of it. Paizo is combining general new rules/materials with Golarion's expanded lore, as of late.

[moosher12]

This is a long shot, but wyrwoods sound like they would tie well into my Impossible Playtest theory given the fact they are created by magic. Otherwise yes, Arcadia would be apt. The announcement of a new unnamed Lost Omens book for Gen Con was announced during the January stream. Though as I've said to a player, I think we'd sooner get Lost Omens Casmaron than Lost Omens Arcadia, as Casmaron will be visited in the upcoming mythic adventure path to visit iblydos.

[Perpdepog]

I would adore a book all about constructs. They're one of my favorite creature types.

[Marisha]

This isn't 100% confirmed but was *suggested* by some wording in a recent Paizo live that there may be more/another ancestry in Battlecry! in addition to the Jotunblood.

I wouldn't have the faintest idea what that could be, if we're looking to the past maybe Gargoyle or Wyvaran (if they haven't been rolled into Dragonblood VH)? Or some as of yet unknown ancestry? If we're looking at an Inner Sea war something weird or funky like a copyright distinct Bladeling (sorta a War Nephilim) could be interesting. Maybe a rehash of Strix if Cheliax is being focused on?

[dirkdragonslayer]

Kavlor wrote:

Some thoughts on who else could be in the playable races list:

Harpies - Let's be honest, they are basically the race we all think of when we think of flying people. And they would fit the theme of Casmaron perfectly. My main hope is that they will remain monogender. Especially since we already have the Surki.

Cyclops - Pathfinder has already done some work fleshing out the Cyclopes, and I could see an opportunity to give them their own flair in the setting. Especially given their innate talent for prophecy. A big ancestry intended for casters?

Fauns - The last of the folk from classical Greek mythology, but this time more closely related to the fairies.

Iblydos is getting a 1-10 mythic adventure soon, and we know from the Magic academy book on it's way that theres a magic school of oracles consisting of Cyclopses and Centaurs. It would be good timing to include Cyclops and other greek monster ancestries in Battlecry. But maybe that's my hopeful GM brain looking at the Cyclops "I guarantee one hit per day" ability and thinking how funny it would be as a wizard. Screw your AC, my disintegrate hits.

Also revisiting an old Darklands book from 1E, it would be cool to see the Munavri return. Also things like Dero, Urdephan, and maybe a Hryngar heritage for Dwarves.

[Telebuddy]

Okay this is going to be weird but maybe an intelligent playable crustacean like a crab. Add others to diversify a water only campaign.

[JiCi]

Telebuddy wrote:

Okay this is going to be weird but maybe an intelligent playable crustacean like a crab. Add others to diversify a water only campaign.

How about merfolk heritages based on such creatures :) ?

[Arutema]

Telebuddy wrote:

Okay this is going to be weird but maybe an intelligent playable crustacean like a crab. Add others to diversify a water only campaign.

I think you will like Starfinder Wrikreechees once they get updated to the 2e ruleset.

[Telebuddy]

Arutema wrote:

Telebuddy wrote:

Okay this is going to be weird but maybe an intelligent playable crustacean like a crab. Add others to diversify a water only campaign.

I think you will like Starfinder Wrikreechees once they get updated to the 2e ruleset.

Perhaps I will look in to it, just need to convince my players to convert over for a oneshot perhaps

@JiCi

I was thinking in addition to the merfolk etc. of course I didn’t clarify so that’s on me.

[moosher12]

Awakened Animal is also an option.

[NoxiousMiasma]

Awakened Animal isn't actually an effective translation of most of the anthro-adjacent suggestions in this thread, I think? Awakened Animal's big strength and weakness is that you're Rare. Trending towards being a one-off weirdo is great for outsider narratives (see also: Yaoguai, Yaksha, Android), but if you want to be part of a people , it's not a particularly good pick. Thinking about what the culture of the hypothetical Ancestry is like half the fun! (or figuring out how Paizo'd rework 1e races or monsters into weirder, more diverse cultures)

[moosher12]

I mean, I have a lot of furries among my players, and when they pick awakened animal, they very much like to use assume they hailed from a community of animal people of their species, as if it was a preexisting species, rather than being an individual magical mutant.

For example, while the lore says animals find awakened animals unsettling, it does not have a mechanical expression in the statblock, so we simply choose to ignore it as it keeps them happy and it works within the mechanical bounds of the ancestry, if not the original lore.

You are right that it is fun to get something with a distinct Paizo-approved culture though. Telebuddy did not ask for a distinct crustacean culture though, they just asked to play an intelligent crustacean, particularly a crab. If all they want is to be crab, it's easy to say there is a whole race of crab people and represent them through the awakened animal. Or, if you wanna keep to awakened animal lore, you can just say the patient zero occurred so many generations ago that they propogated into a full species. I mean, that's how we got owlbears after all (before the retcon).

TLDR: Just because awakened animals can be weirdo outsiders, does not mean awakened animals have to be written as weirdo outsiders without a culture. Be creative with the implications granted by tools you're given, you'd be surprised.

[JiCi]

Telebuddy wrote:

I was thinking in addition to the merfolk etc. of course I didn’t clarify so that’s on me.

3rd-party publisher Alluria developed a truckton of underwater material for their own campaign setting. They did offer crustacean humanoids, but also hybrids.

If that crustacean's... "genes" would come into contact with a merfolk's egg, the resulting offspring would become a merfolk with shrimp features, such as the tail, a pincer and full round eyes.

[moosher12]

Telebuddy wrote:

Perhaps I will look in to it, just need to convince my players to convert over for a oneshot perhaps

No need to convert. Starfinder ancestries are fully compatible. Devs said so themselves. They are designed specifically so they can be dropped into a Pathfinder 2E game.

And as a personal attestment. Before Awakened Animals were a thing, I had a player who wanted to play a humanoid crocodile, so I let them play a reflavored Vesk from the Starfinder Field Test 3 in a Pathfinder game. It worked just fine.

[Perpdepog]

moosher12 wrote:

Telebuddy wrote:

Perhaps I will look in to it, just need to convince my players to convert over for a oneshot perhaps

No need to convert. Starfinder ancestries are fully compatible. Devs said so themselves. They are designed specifically so they can be dropped into a Pathfinder 2E game.

And as a personal attestment. Before Awakened Animals were a thing, I had a player who wanted to play a humanoid crocodile, so I let them play a reflavored Vesk from the Starfinder Field Test 3 in a Pathfinder game. It worked just fine.

Slight caveat to this: While it is true that they run on the same engine, and the majority of SF2E ancestries will work fine in PF2E, you do still need to keep an eye out. Starfinder's ancestries are going to be built using Starfinder's setting assumptions, i.e, that everyone uses guns, so some design philosophies are going to be different.

The barathu, an alien that lives on a gas giant and is a core ancestry, has flight from level 1, for example, which could invalidate a fair number of low-level PF2E encounters. Just keep an eye out for stuff like that and you should be able to plug in pretty much whatever from SF2E.

[Dragonchess Player]

Perpdepog wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Telebuddy wrote:

Perhaps I will look in to it, just need to convince my players to convert over for a oneshot perhaps

No need to convert. Starfinder ancestries are fully compatible. Devs said so themselves. They are designed specifically so they can be dropped into a Pathfinder 2E game.

And as a personal attestment. Before Awakened Animals were a thing, I had a player who wanted to play a humanoid crocodile, so I let them play a reflavored Vesk from the Starfinder Field Test 3 in a Pathfinder game. It worked just fine.

Slight caveat to this: While it is true that they run on the same engine, and the majority of SF2E ancestries will work fine in PF2E, you do still need to keep an eye out. Starfinder's ancestries are going to be built using Starfinder's setting assumptions, i.e, that everyone uses guns, so some design philosophies are going to be different.

Luckily, IMO the issues with the assumptions are often quite manageable. The biggest assumptions to watch out for are the ancestry feats around the Computers and Piloting skills.

The barathu's 20 ft fly speed is probably less of an issue than a kineticist with Stepping Stones (which can be used by the entire party).

[Agonarchy]

After a day at the zoo where I spent a few minutes appreciating a bizarre and adorable white-nosed coati, I find myself wondering about a small ancestry that encompasses some of the Carnivora that people forget. People know raccoons well enough, but Procyonidae includes a number of arboreal mammals with interesting features and fun names (ring tails, coati, olingo, kinkajou, cacomistles, etc.), and I think you could get away with combining them with the weasely types of critters as well.

Basically, small-sized mammals that are good at climbing or digging with natural roguish tendencies (a lot of these are little escape artist assassins who grab food and run). Tons of real life traits to choose from, as these kinds of critters have some really bizarre or hard-core adaptations to make up for not being larger. They also tend to have iiinteresting scents.

[moosher12]

Just saw the March stream from last week. I am thankful we're getting the corpsfolk via Starfinder 2E. Hopefully that one will be the perfect one to craft Jaethal into.

[Maya Coleman]

Telebuddy wrote:

Okay this is going to be weird but maybe an intelligent playable crustacean like a crab. Add others to diversify a water only campaign.

Not weird and in fact appreciated!

[Kobold Catgirl]

There's always room for more crab people ancestries, but I believe Eldritch Osiris Games has designed one if you're really itching for it!

[Eldritch Yodel]

My top two wants are ratajin and d'ziriaks, they're both incredibly cool and there's a lot which can be done with both (I'd also say Shae as I personally really adore them, but understand that they're not quite as naturally built for being an ancestry vs those other two, still, a gal can dream).

Also, whilst they're not on the top of my list, I have for a while felt that kaava's exclusion from Mwangi Expanse was pretty strange. They're a humanoid ancestry in a playable range of power with multiple heritages already existing in-lore (namely there's pygmy kaava), a unique design (quadrupedal humanoid with feathers, scales, lemur tail, and hyena/fox-like build) and important enough to have an entire region in the mwangi expanse named after them. As much as a like conrasu/shisk/goloma, it really does feel like it'd have been better for kaava to take one of their "weird ancestry" slots.

[keftiu]

Kuru and Maftets are my "probably never gonna happen" picks now that I've gotten Androids, Kholos, Minotaurs, and Lashuntas. Shabti felt so heavily teased that it's a little weird we haven't gotten them yet. Wyrwoods are one of the parts of Arcadia I'm looking forward to most.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Honestly, it's weird we haven't gotten sthenos yet. They look tailor-made to be an ancestry. They're probably inevitable.

[Agonarchy]

Kobold Catgirl wrote:

Honestly, it's weird we haven't gotten sthenos yet. They look tailor-made to be an ancestry. They're probably inevitable.

Fun fact that my avatar will make less surprising: I've wanted medusa-like ancestries since I got my first D&D monster book - in 1992. I had drawings and homebrew ideas jotted down and everything.

[Perpdepog]

Kobold Catgirl wrote:

Honestly, it's weird we haven't gotten sthenos yet. They look tailor-made to be an ancestry. They're probably inevitable.

IIRC, Mark was really pushing for them to show up as a playable ancestry, but there wasn't room for them in the books coming out at the time, or something, so he earmarked them as an include in Year of Monsters, instead.

[Agonarchy]

Really a big book of classic mythic monster-likes would be fun. Greek myth alone is riddled with fun things to turn into ancestries.

[Kobold Catgirl]

I've been fiddling with a thriae-like ancestry for a while now, it's gonna be embarrassing if Paizo gets to it before I do.

[Eldritch Yodel]

keftiu wrote:

Kuru and Maftets are my "probably never gonna happen" picks now that I've gotten Androids, Kholos, Minotaurs, and Lashuntas. Shabti felt so heavily teased that it's a little weird we haven't gotten them yet. Wyrwoods are one of the parts of Arcadia I'm looking forward to most.

Oh yes I love Shabti! Really do hope they make a return, lots of interesting stuff you can do with them.

[BookBird]

I firmly believe we're going to get an Arcadia LO book at some point within 2e's lifespan, and thus expect we'll see some of the more anticipated ancestries (Wyrwood, Rougarou, Syrinx etc) there. Such books I feel are some of our most reliable ways to get new ancestries, as well as those like Howl of the Wild.

Another product I'd like to eventually happen is one focused on the Darklands, seeing as the Remaster changed much of its lore with the removal of the Drow. Often the Darklands people take on a villainous role, but I don't think that should necessarily stop them being ancestries. Most likely inclusion for such a book I feel is a Hryngyr heritage for Dwarves, but I'm also hoping for ancestries such as Sekmin, Xulgath, and maybe even some entirely new ones.

Casmaron appears to be one that isn't as focused on, but we could still see some materials there. Iblydos has been relevant recently, so maybe some ancestries inspired from there eventually? Notably, Harpy is the remaining one of the three Isle of Kortos/Voradni Voon peoples that still aren't playable, and some non-hostile Cyclops may be fun as well. I'm less knowledgeable about the rest of Casmaron.

Then there's the stragglers. Unsure of where these would fit, but they'll probably appear eventually:
-Wyvarans (often requested)
-Beastbrood heritage
-Div, Garuda lineage Nephilim
-Shabti
-Gathlain

Otherwise, I think we've got just about everything? Harder to imagine what other ancestries they could add without them being new. I hardly see them doing Astomoi or Deep One Hybrid.

[moosher12]

Caligni would be a good fit for Darklands.