Thaumaturge Pact Feats and Witch Patrons

[Lightning Raven]

During the Witch playtest way back when and, most recently, during one of the discussions about the Witch class, I often said that if they had more mechanically complex Patrons the class would be much more attractive. Based on that, Imagine my surprise in seeing Class Feats of another class mirroring exactly the kind of dynamic I had in mind when I talked about the Patrons.

The benefits and costs associated with the pact is exactly the kind of thing that should define a class. But, since the Patron ship has sailed a long time ago, I think that the Pact Feats are a little too big, interesting and fun to be constrained to a single class. Thus, I think that the Pact mechanic becoming class-agnostic could use some discussion.

Picking up a contract sounds exactly the kind of thing that I could use to spice up my Witch characters since the base class doesn't quite cover what I was looking for.

So, what you think, Pacts should remain the in Thaumaturge's domain or it is too big of a mechanic to be constrained by a single class and as Feats no less?

P.S.: I'm aware of the Contracts that are already in the game, but they are very limited in scope, rare and very limited in their flavor (mostly tied with Hell or Thrune).

[Golurkcanfly]

I think that they can be expanded to use the Contract Magic Items. While the current Contracts are narrow, they are also all Rare. There should be room for Uncommon Contracts and different formats of Contracts, since the current Contracts already have two different formats. Alternatively, they could use a little subsystem.

I do think it's too big of an idea to be limited to the Thaumaturge. The Thaumaturge should get access to feats to interact with whatever they go with more, but they should be more open to begin with.

[Cyder]

I am with Lightning Raven. Pacts are a great concept that shouldn't be class locked but instead should be campaign/story general feats.

I am not a fan of contract magic items. I really feel they are better served by pact feats.

I agree Thaumaturge could get feats to allow them interact with Pact feats in interesting ways, or get the ability to mimic a pact feat as a class feat chosen during preparation each day.

[Golurkcanfly]

Cyder wrote:

I am with Lightning Raven. Pacts are a great concept that shouldn't be class locked but instead should be campaign/story general feats.

I am not a fan of contract magic items. I really feel they are better served by pact feats.

I agree Thaumaturge could get feats to allow them interact with Pact feats in interesting ways, or get the ability to mimic a pact feat as a class feat chosen during preparation each day.

Is there any particular reason you don't like the Contracts?

They exist in two very different formats already, so I don't see any particular reason the current feats could not be ported directly over 1-to-1.

[keftiu]

It’s such a bummer that Thaumaturge gets this flavor before Witch does. I really wish that clash had more of this and less of whatever it currently has going on.

[OCEANSHIELDWOLPF 2.0]

And here’s keftiu’s earlier thread on this topic…