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This is what I like to see in a customer.Oh god yes. I've only done a little retail work, but I've always hated wearing name tags in other situations - like conventions or other events. I almost never will use a name tag to casually address some one in a retail store or similar situation.
But how else will people at conventions know its me?!?
Yes this is a joke considering I'm easy to pick out of a crowd at cons. Or at least I used to be.
You command the attention of any room you enter FHDM
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Yes this is a joke considering I'm easy to pick out of a crowd at cons. Or at least I used to be.
I haven't been to a con since Gencon 95 and 96. I probably look like I don't belong (so easy to pick out).
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In the past, Mods have trimmed quotes from posts. Can we get that again? Or is that extra effort too much?
This has been the policy for a long, long time. Like, from back when Gary Teter was still moderating. It's not about "effort", I promise. It's caused complaints in the past, but it's just to keep moderation accountable, as others have said. You can email them for a copy if you really want your post back.
For my part, I cautiously agree with the OP. I also think, and this isn't about the OP, that Heather's doing fine and do not think it's at all fair to complain about the moderation at a time like this, when the team normally on hand to handle moderation is missing so many members, is seeing a change in leadership, etc. I think they're clearly doing their best to keep the community under control at a time when tensions are running high all around. I appreciate Heather's presence here. :)
I haven't been to a con since Gencon 95 and 96. I probably look like I don't belong (so easy to pick out).
Yes this is a joke considering I'm easy to pick out of a crowd at cons. Or at least I used to be.
We passed each other in Milwaukee then.
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We passed each other in Milwaukee then.I haven't been to a con since Gencon 95 and 96. I probably look like I don't belong (so easy to pick out).
Yes this is a joke considering I'm easy to pick out of a crowd at cons. Or at least I used to be.
Quite possible. :)
My group took #2 in the AD&D open in 95'. The theme was "A few more parts" or somesuch in homage the Rod of Seven Parts boxed set that year. We actually should have won it all but the RPGA sanctioned DM (aptly named Ratty) didn't like on of my players. We were the only team that found all 7 parts with zero character deaths. I lost all respect for the RPGA that day though despite getting 2nd place swag. Garret Wang from Star Trek Voyager handed us our prizes.Awesome memories, we had a blast despite the DM snub.
Either that year or the following year I met James Jacob's, Sean K Reynolds, Dave Gross and other TSR alumni.
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I'm not in pain, though I am a bit sore but that is probably because of the wall I just built.
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In the past, Mods have trimmed quotes from posts. Can we get that again? Or is that extra effort too much?This has been the policy for a long, long time. Like, from back when Gary Teter was still moderating. It's not about "effort", I promise. It's caused complaints in the past, but it's just to keep moderation accountable, as others have said. You can email them for a copy if you really want your post back.
For my part, I cautiously agree with the OP. I also think, and this isn't about the OP, that Heather's doing fine and do not think it's at all fair to complain about the moderation at a time like this, when the team normally on hand to handle moderation is missing so many members, is seeing a change in leadership, etc. I think they're clearly doing their best to keep the community under control at a time when tensions are running high all around. I appreciate Heather's presence here. :)
Me too.
The moderation is outstanding given the ructions we're experiencing at the moment. I include Tonya in that.
I also fully agree with Cori's point. Previously Sara, Liz, Chris...all had a calming influence beyond just moderation.
I know many think of paizo as just a TTRPG publishing business. But there is a community built up around it and that has previously been actively fostered and nurtured. For many of us that is just as important as the books.
Yes Sara has only just left...but that was the choice of the company by all accounts. What was the plan? Who is filling the community manager role that Sara used to?
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I agree with Steve. I believe strongly that Sara Marie was a positive community influence. I am at a loss to understand what could possibly have merited her dismissal, but even if there is some farfetched circumstance that warranted it, I am even more confused and disappointed that Paizo had no contingency to implement, *especially* during their busiest week.
This feels like a perfectly natural and obvious repercussion to the actions taken. Whether Sara deserved to be fired is, in a very specific lens, immaterial (not to me, I am still deeply disappointed and frustrated). Sara Marie was a consummate professional who knew her job well. Removing her during Paizo's 2nd or 1st busiest annual event is going to have a fallout, even if its just a logistical one.
And I am deeply concerned as the OP is that the person seemingly put in place over Sara Marie and thus now in charge of her original role has done very little to compensate for the sudden loss to the department. As I said, I don't know the circumstances. But I agree with Cori that Sara's loss is a huge blow to the community, and her seeming logical successor has not precisely instilled me with confidence.
That is, unfortunately, only my opinion. Perhaps things will improve. I hope so. But I agree, I do think the community is hurting and it would be excellent to see some action on Paizo's part.
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Plainly stated, the community is hurting and the Paizo team member that should be the one to help us heal seems to be mostly missing.
This is the expression of a valid feeling, or course. On the other hand, the feelings of the person you’re talking about deserve consideration as well. Tonya has been part of the topic for a week now. This has involved thousands of posts, a good number of them questioning her actions in the most unforgiving terms, including calls for her firing and varied insults. It stands to reason that she would be cautious about trying for a more personal touch in the threads, at least for a while. Helping the community to heal is a worthy and necessary goal. Not triggering further mayhem is a starting point, if a discreet one.
Across five different threads very little has been said about Tonya. I’ve been here throughout and I’m hard pressed to remember many calls for her firing or insults about her.
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Admittedly, I have seen that proposed once or twice. I still don't feel quite great about her response to this, even given the circumstances, but I will begrudgingly admit that gwynfrid is correct in that calls like that were made. Whether that's justifiable or not is...hard for me to fully process at this time so I can't weigh in on that.
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Admittedly, I have seen that proposed once or twice. I still don't feel quite great about her response to this, even given the circumstances, but I will begrudgingly admit that gwynfrid is correct in that calls like that were made. Whether that's justifiable or not is...hard for me to fully process at this time so I can't weigh in on that.
Right but like the person who six days ago called for Jeff to step down over this - it wasn’t representative of the majority, it didn’t gain traction and it has been several days since it has been a topic of conversation.
One guy said I was trying to “steal” the company. One person or a few people saying it doesn’t make it a true statement or even an accurate interpretation.
This crap of tarring the whole group of us with one statement some outlier said and conflating an ongoing conversation about accountability with “mayhem” has got to stop.
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Quite possible. :)
My group took #2 in the AD&D open in 95'. The theme was "A few more parts" or somesuch in homage the Rod of Seven Parts boxed set that year. We actually should have won it all but the RPGA sanctioned DM (aptly named Ratty) didn't like on of my players. We were the only team that found all 7 parts with zero character deaths. I lost all respect for the RPGA that day though despite getting 2nd place swag. Garret Wang from Star Trek Voyager handed us our prizes.Awesome memories, we had a blast despite the DM snub.
Either that year or the following year I met James Jacob's, Sean K Reynolds, Dave Gross and other TSR alumni.
Nice! I played in that one too; when I learned that we "missed" a rod piece
right away that was on one of the dock supports under water as we came to port, I remember thinking "this is some dumb Gygax nonsense!" Lol oh well. Great job on your guy's parts though!
I’m not saying that the treads have been full with insults or calls for firing. I’ve only seen very few, and these are extreme views (these posts were removed, naturally). But the feelings have been raw - and again, those feelings are valid, and justified - including feelings towards Tonya personally. In that context, I’m not sure how much good more direct interventions by her could do.
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I’m not saying that the treads have been full with insults or calls for firing. I’ve only seen very few, and these are extreme views (these posts were removed, naturally). But the feelings have been raw - and again, those feelings are valid, and justified - including feelings towards Tonya personally. In that context, I’m not sure how much good more direct interventions by her could do.
I feel like some good faith engagement would go a long way for many of us. As you said, those calls are in the vast minority, while the rest of us just want to know that the people we love at the company are treated right. For me, that's just about everybody that I can name. They're all people, they all help to make this product that's brought me so much joy over the last decade, and I don't want to see any of them hurting or feeling like they don't have value.
And it's not just the past week that I'm talking about either, in regards to the lack of interaction with the community. I was honestly shocked when there wasn't either a post in the general community to announce her promotion or a blog post that did so. (Turns out there was an announcement in a blog post but not one that you'd know contained such announcements from the title and it was buried in an Organized Play blog that I don't read because I don't participate in Organized Play). A post introducing her in her new role would have been great, it would have allowed her to start some engagement and start showing the community that she was here for us and what her new role entailed.
That all happened three weeks before the inciting incident, so we can't really blame that as a reason she's not interacted almost at all with the community in that time.
That all happened three weeks before the inciting incident, so we can't really blame that as a reason she's not interacted almost at all with the community in that time.
...the three weeks leading up to Gen Con (Online).
While scrambling to figure out what a new previously non-existent role entailed.
While potentially dealing with internal issues.
While trying to learn all the bells and whistles of the mechanical side of the new role.
I've was in a 'backup' position at my essential retail gig for nearly three years.
I didn't get ANY of the training I needed to 'take over' in case of emergencies during that time, and then was given a 'crash course' when my predecessor (in the new position I'm temporarily filling) decided to resign over the space of two weeks.
So now five months later three-quarters of the job is *not getting done* -- in part because Management has no idea of what the job entails and in part because I Do Not Know how to do the things that need to get done.
And that's with an established job in a retail environment.
A new job cut from whole cloth that nobody in the org chart understands what or how is going to work?
I am NOT making excuses -- if I was in the position that Tonya is in, I'd be wanting to engage the community AND clear the air.
There may, be mitigating factors that are precluding this.
Despite that, some engagement is needed, before it becomes 'too little, too late' and the memory left with a portion of Paizo Customers is 'did nothing for the job'.
Cautious optimism indicated.
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I mean, there wasn't so much as a blog post announcing it. It was buried in an Organized Play update blog post that anyone who doesn't participate in organized play likely skips. I get that Gen Con prep is a thing, but setting aside 30 minutes to introduce yourself and your new role to the community beyond organized play should have happened.
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My group took #2 in the AD&D open in 95'. The theme was "A few more parts" or somesuch in homage the Rod of Seven Parts boxed set that year. We actually should have won it all but the RPGA sanctioned DM (aptly named Ratty) didn't like on of my players. We were the only team that found all 7 parts with zero character deaths. I lost all respect for the RPGA that day though despite getting 2nd place swag. Garret Wang from Star Trek Voyager handed us our prizes.
Awesome memories, we had a blast despite the DM snub.
My team took 3rd in 2002 and we never got any of our swag. Just a promise that they would contact us after the convention which never happened.
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Just wanted to say that some of us in the community are not hurting.
The events at Paizo recently are unfortunate as I've said before (it's never good to get let go or feel forced to quit while doing something you love) but it happens all the time. It won't be the first or last time.
Overall I believe the "community that's hurting" is a small but loud percentage of the paizo fan base or supporters. Folks love to hate corporate. There were criticisms at TSR, WotC, EA, Blizzard/Activision, Ubisoft, etc.
Out of those few companies 4 are still standing and thriving no matter how evil corporate may be or the scandals surrounding them, some of which are similar to here.
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You've repeatedly referred to groups that disagree with you as small but loud, without any evidence of same. Do you know that we are a minority, or are just assuming that because you don't agree with us that we must be a minority?
The other statement that companies have survived criticisms in the past is great, but I'm not sure what it's supposed to be saying.
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Greatly appreciate being told that I'm a 'small' but 'loud' percentage of the Paizo fan base.
The last numbers I heard (and they may have been pulled out of a hat for all I know), one in ten buyers of Paizo products actually participate on the website.
Which would seem to indicate that ten percent of the purchasers of Paizo products feel it's necessary to be a part of the Paizo online community.
It's not a lot to ask for Paizo to Be Better than any of those companies you mentioned, without us having to beg, borrow, or plead for it.
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"Blizzard did nothing wrong" is a fresh, bold take I haven't seen before. I gotta say, I didn't miss it.
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Greatly appreciate being told that I'm a 'small' but 'loud' percentage of the Paizo fan base.The last numbers I heard (and they may have been pulled out of a hat for all I know), one in ten buyers of Paizo products actually participate on the website.
Which would seem to indicate that ten percent of the purchasers of Paizo products feel it's necessary to be a part of the Paizo online community.
It's not a lot to ask for Paizo to Be Better than any of those companies you mentioned, without us having to beg, borrow, or plead for it.
Not all of the online community is hurting, by your tally that's less than 10%.
Further, it's been said in other threads past that the forum community is a smaller percentage of the consumer base. Apologies for the "small" but not for the "loud" comment but it wasn't specific to you. I left out names.| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
"Blizzard did nothing wrong" is a fresh, bold take I haven't seen before. I gotta say, I didn't miss it.
No one said that, they're saying despite the criticism that they're still around.
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"Blizzard did nothing wrong" is a fresh, bold take I haven't seen before. I gotta say, I didn't miss it.No one said that, they're saying despite the criticism that they're still around.
Rome didn't burn in a day after all! Still time yet. :) They've already lost their "King of MMOs" and "Good Guy Blizzard" cards.
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"Blizzard did nothing wrong" is a fresh, bold take I haven't seen before. I gotta say, I didn't miss it.
You're just seeing what you want. I never said Blizzard did nothing wrong, only that they are still standing and profiting despite the player Exodus.
If you are going to paraphrase me, please take the time to read my comment first.| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
If you are going to paraphrase me, please take the time to read my comment first.
Please provide that same courtesy to others the next time you go to paraphrase the arguments people are making in these threads.
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Rome didn't burn in a day after all! Still time yet. :) They've already lost their "King of MMOs" and "Good Guy Blizzard" cards."Blizzard did nothing wrong" is a fresh, bold take I haven't seen before. I gotta say, I didn't miss it.No one said that, they're saying despite the criticism that they're still around.
Absolutely! Let's not forget Warcraft Reforged either.
I'm sure another crapfest like that and Activision will fold them up, if those plans aren't already being made.
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Overall I believe the "community that's hurting" is a small but loud percentage of the paizo fan base or supporters. Folks love to hate corporate. There were criticisms at TSR, WotC, EA, Blizzard/Activision, Ubisoft, etc. .
So we are the ‘Mensheviks’ to your ‘Bolsheviks’? Painting your opposition as the minority is so very October Revolutionist.
Personally I love corporations. I love capitalism. I dislike corporate exploitation and Gilded Age style predatory capitalism.
One of the great facets of capitalism is being a consumer and voting with your wallet. So, feel free to buy everything Paizo puts out, that is your right and your perfect way to boost their current corporate culture. Me … well pretty much I’m done for now. One of the big selling points for me was Paizo being a company that cared about its employees. Who were fellow gamers. So let the dice fall where they may.
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Rome didn't burn in a day after all! Still time yet. :) They've already lost their "King of MMOs" and "Good Guy Blizzard" cards."Blizzard did nothing wrong" is a fresh, bold take I haven't seen before. I gotta say, I didn't miss it.No one said that, they're saying despite the criticism that they're still around.Absolutely! Let's not forget Warcraft Reforged either.
I'm sure another crapfest like that and Activision will fold them up, if those plans aren't already being made.
It's a tangent but Starcraft, and Overwatch are still huge, the former being an official sport overseas. Diablo 4 is in the pipe too. Fwiw, I left WoW due to many of the older main developers leaving. The newest expansion is the worst yet. There's not a single good writer left there imho.
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"Blizzard did nothing wrong" is a fresh, bold take I haven't seen before. I gotta say, I didn't miss it.You're just seeing what you want. I never said Blizzard did nothing wrong, only that they are still standing and profiting despite the player Exodus.
Oh, so it's another, "Why are you bothering? This will accomplish nothing" post? I don't really understand why people keep doing those. It sort of scans to me like arguing for the sake of arguing, or guilty consciences trying to rationalize why they aren't doing anything to help or advocate for the communities currently hurting. I can't work out what it actually achieves, or who it actually helps.
The OP is expressing a hurt many in the community feel. If you aren't hurting, cool, say that and move on. But the last thing the community needs right now is nihilism for its own sake.
Believe it or not, I'd respect "Blizzard did nothing wrong" a little more. At least then I'd know what you were trying to accomplish here.
It's a tangent but Starcraft, and Overwatch are still huge, the former being an official sport overseas. Diablo 4 is in the pipe too. Fwiw, I left WoW due to many of the older main developers leaving. The newest expansion is the worst yet. There's not a single good writer left there imho.Rome didn't burn in a day after all! Still time yet. :) They've already lost their "King of MMOs" and "Good Guy Blizzard" cards."Blizzard did nothing wrong" is a fresh, bold take I haven't seen before. I gotta say, I didn't miss it.No one said that, they're saying despite the criticism that they're still around.Absolutely! Let's not forget Warcraft Reforged either.
I'm sure another crapfest like that and Activision will fold them up, if those plans aren't already being made.
I've never heard of StarCraft.
This is what happens when you live in the Midwest without a computer of your own.
It's a tangent but Starcraft, and Overwatch are still huge, the former being an official sport overseas. Diablo 4 is in the pipe too. Fwiw, I left WoW due to many of the older main developers leaving. The newest expansion is the worst yet. There's not a single good writer left there imho.Rome didn't burn in a day after all! Still time yet. :) They've already lost their "King of MMOs" and "Good Guy Blizzard" cards."Blizzard did nothing wrong" is a fresh, bold take I haven't seen before. I gotta say, I didn't miss it.No one said that, they're saying despite the criticism that they're still around.Absolutely! Let's not forget Warcraft Reforged either.
I'm sure another crapfest like that and Activision will fold them up, if those plans aren't already being made.
You might not be as deep on the pipeline on Blizzard, but Overwatch is crashing pretty hard and Starcraft isn't profitable, Esport or not. Diablo is great, one of the few products they have that has crashed and rebuilt itself up, but it's also not a big moneymaker for Blizzard either. WoW tanking as hard as it is currently is a huge deal(WoW is responsible for more than all of their other games combined profits) and I frankly don't see Blizzard keeping itself afloat without some massive changes.
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Think about this....
Some folks start or participate in multiple threads empowering other forumers to tag along in protest ( so far ok). Some forumers don't agree and voice opinions that clash. War erupts. Then some of the original folks innocently post threads like this one saying "the community is hurting" and try and place further blame on Paizo.
That kind of sums up this past week or so.
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Think about this....
Some folks start or participate in multiple threads empowering other forumers to tag along in protest ( so far ok). Some forumers don't agree and voice opinions that clash. War erupts. Then some of the original folks innocently post threads like this one saying "the community is hurting" and try and place further blame on Paizo.That kind of sums up this past week or so.
A statement of "The community is hurting" is not an incorrect statement. A statement of "WELL SOME OF US ARENT HURTING" is like saying your right leg doesn't hurt, but your left arm is bleeding. We're all still part of the same community.
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That doesn't really sum up the last week or so.
Some folks start or participate in multiple threads to discuss the allegations and ways to improve. Some forumers don't agree and post repeatedly telling us to shut up and move on. Disagreements specifically with those posters derails the conversation we were peacefully having about accountability. Those posters go into other threads and repeat the claim that we're all AT WAR (we aren't) and demanding people get fired (we aren't) and trying to tear down the company (we aren't.)
What benefit do you gain from constantly misrepresenting reality?
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If I am coming across as terse, it's because I am very angry with this situation. I am trying not to bring all of that anger to bear on any one person because no one person can possibly be responsible for all of this. That said, I do want to be honest.
I am a transgender woman for whom Paizo has been a home for a very long time, and I feel exhausted, burnt out and enraged by this last week--not to mention completely helpless to do much of anything about it. As important as this community has been to me, I am not an active customer these days, so I don't get the small catharsis of canceling any subscriptions or telling management they've lost a few extra dollars. All I can do is make my feelings known and hope someone else gives a crap about them. That is all a lot of us here can do. Paizo is a business, but they are also a community.
It seems you want us to know two things: first, that you don't think the moderation has done anything wrong, and second, that our protests won't work and Paizo will be untouched because we are a vocal minority and most people aren't that upset. I don't care if you want to argue the first point.
There is no kind way to say this: I find some posters' need to declare the ultimate futility of the outcry to be deeply cruel and fundamentally lacking in empathy, whether they intend it to be so or not. It is actually more upsetting to me than those who defend the abuse outright, because I can see that the management's abuse bothers you, and yet you put your energies into trying to make us feel more helpless and isolated. I do not understand why a good person would see that as their chief priority at this time. I do not know you, nor do I know your motives. I am really wondering if you do.
And if, at this point, you are simply arguing for the sake of proving that you aren't wrong, I think you should stop doing that, because it's by far one of the worst ways to spend your time on the internet.
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That doesn't really sum up the last week or so.
Some folks start or participate in multiple threads to discuss the allegations and ways to improve. Some forumers don't agree and post repeatedly telling us to shut up and move on. Disagreements specifically with those posters derails the conversation we were peacefully having about accountability. Those posters go into other threads and repeat the claim that we're all AT WAR (we aren't) and demanding people get fired (we aren't) and trying to tear down the company (we aren't.)
What benefit do you gain from constantly misrepresenting reality?
They've also called us a kangaroo court, a lynch mob, witch burners...
Basically any false equivalence to make us seem unreasonable, right?
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I'm sorry, Kobold Cleaver. Our situations are very different but our feelings very similar.
I hope the powers that be at Paizo care about the portion of the community that are hurt and the apparent poor working conditions. I hope they will aim to rectify past errors (as much as possible) and put systems in place to stop them from recurring.
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That doesn't really sum up the last week or so.
They've also called us a kangaroo court, a lynch mob, witch burners...Basically any false equivalence to make us seem unreasonable, right?
I used clutching pearls a few times, but yeah bout sums it up. That being said the grievances are still being aired which I hope makes people feel better.
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You've repeatedly referred to groups that disagree with you as small but loud, without any evidence of same. Do you know that we are a minority, or are just assuming that because you don't agree with us that we must be a minority?
The other statement that companies have survived criticisms in the past is great, but I'm not sure what it's supposed to be saying.
Please remember that the opposite can also be true.
I’ve always likened the boards to be analogous to people who vote in primaries. They are the ones who care enough to determine the direction the compa-, I mean party, goes.
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I'm sorry, Kobold Cleaver. Our situations are very different but our feelings very similar.
I hope the powers that be at Paizo care about the portion of the community that are hurt and the apparent poor working conditions. I hope they will aim to rectify past errors (as much as possible) and put systems in place to stop them from recurring.
This is a classy non-fire starting way to get things across. Humble even.
Much better than demanding resignations and people to step down and the mob mentality of boycotting Paizo into some weird submission.
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@kobold
I'm sorry you feel the way that you do, and I'm glad you have found a safe haven with Pathfinder. I'm being sincere here.
That said, I'm not posting to prove I am right or wrong, I just didn't agree with the way things went down here and I was entitled to an opinion like everyone else.