Honestly I don't see how it'd be broken either. It's Double Slice but burns a spell to give +2 AC against an opponent (as long as you keep hitting them).
Sure, it's a nice bit of AC, it's like having a shield constantly raised, but remember that the Magus doesn't have has much AC as other martials.
So honestly that'd be fair for him to get that, especially at the cost of 1 to 2 or 3 Feat (Expansive Spellstrike, Striker Scroll and Fused Staff) and burning a slot (from his, the staff's, or a ring).
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The +2 AC also isn't an overall thing. It's +2 AC against a single target.Oh, granted. But that is still nuts. 2ac against a big target is like having a constant shield raised.
As for Arcane Cascade, it is a stance, it stays on till the fight ends. They screwed up some wording for the requirements, but RAI is super clear on that, even society lets it stay on. I assume they will errata the phrasing on it.
"A stance lasts until you get knocked out, until its requirements (if any) are violated, until the encounter ends, or until you enter a new stance, whichever comes first."
Still, I'll take your word for it.
"constant shield raised" is against everyone - not jsut a single target. If there's only one target in the fight, then yea, it's like a constant shield raised (until it falls), and it's a good spell for that, but that's when it's functioning at its best, and even then you only get that benefit for the first time you cast the spell.
Double slice usually uses a 1d8 with the first strike and 1d4/1d6 with your second agile one.
Even considering a 1d8 polearm the difference is neat. 1d10 is higher and 1d12 is even more ahead.
Magus has the best armor progression, like the fighter ( 11 expert and 17 trained) leaving apart tanks ( monk and champion), and with single sentinel feat can get full plates.
The +2 AC is really good.
I'd probably just save it for the big ones, which would result into 3/4 uses per day.A +2 status AC allows a shield Magus to match the shield champion in AC against a boss, and a champion to be even more sturdier.
I am more worried having it on a champ for balance purposes though.
Double slice isn't burning resources to make it happen, though.. and it also has add-on feats like Flensing Strike and Dual Onslaught that enhance it further. Beyond that... saying "the damage is really good because d12 two-hander, and the AC is really good because of shield magus" is starting to show the cracks in the plan.
Also worth noting... "Warding aggression ends if the foe you attacked dies or at the end of any turn in which you didn't hit that foe with a melee Strike." It's not enough to swing. You also have to hit. Realistically, it's going to last for... two or three rounds, on average? You aso don't get the paladin's shield block benefits.
I'm not saying I know what the answer is. I don't. I'm not saying that it's a lousy spell. I haven't seen it in play enough to say that for sure. It seems like a pretty poor choice for most casters in most situations - where it's effectively costing you an extra action and a level 3 spell slot in order to maybe get +2 AC against a single target for a few rounds, while requiring you rot keep swinging at them. That's... not amazing
I'm mostly saying that the math is fuzzy enough that this:
TBH I would rule it as being usable with Spellstrike, with the caveat that, if it appears unbalanced, then it was likely not supposed to work with it. And reversion of the ruling, but based on real game results.
Which you cannot get if you disallow it from the start.
seems like an entirely reasonable response, and the arguments that seem to suggest that it's _not_ reasonable appear to be looking at the cases most extremely in their favor and handwaving away a few unhelpful details.
Having said that, I'll acknowledge that I started out under a misapprehension and the "it's too strong for Spellstrike" argument is at least more reasonable than I'd initially thought.
I also note that if you're using a two-target Electric Arc rather than a Claw, you're dealing two instances of 10d4+statmod, which is generally going to come out as something like *58* total damage... though you do start dealing with MAD issues at that point. Another benchmark for perspective, regardless.
Just to be sure, given the reason an arcane summoner would then be able to do the same ( he'd have to deal with his 5 known spells though), wouldn't he?
And at least one of those spells in Repertoire would need to exist at low enough levels to cast with those spell slots from the Ring.
The +2 AC also isn't an overall thing. It's +2 AC against a single target.Oh, granted. But that is still nuts. 2ac against a big target is like having a constant shield raised.
As for Arcane Cascade, it is a stance, it stays on till the fight ends. They screwed up some wording for the requirements, but RAI is super clear on that, even society lets it stay on. I assume they will errata the phrasing on it.
"A stance lasts until you get knocked out, until its requirements (if any) are violated, until the encounter ends, or until you enter a new stance, whichever comes first."
Still, I'll take your word for it.
"constant shield raised" is against everyone - not jsut a single target. If there's only one target in the fight, then yea, it's like a constant shield raised (until it falls), and it's a good spell for that, but that's when it's functioning at its best, and even then you only get that benefit for the first time you cast the spell.
Double slice isn't burning resources to make it happen, though.. and it also has add-on feats like Flensing Strike and Dual Onslaught that enhance it further. Beyond that... saying "the damage is really good because d12 two-hander, and the AC is really good because of...Double slice usually uses a 1d8 with the first strike and 1d4/1d6 with your second agile one.
Even considering a 1d8 polearm the difference is neat. 1d10 is higher and 1d12 is even more ahead.
Magus has the best armor progression, like the fighter ( 11 expert and 17 trained) leaving apart tanks ( monk and champion), and with single sentinel feat can get full plates.
The +2 AC is really good.
I'd probably just save it for the big ones, which would result into 3/4 uses per day.A +2 status AC allows a shield Magus to match the shield champion in AC against a boss, and a champion to be even more sturdier.
I am more worried having it on a champ for balance purposes though.
Looks pretty good for a MC fighter or paladin with or without a shield. It's a status bonus so you can stack it with a shield in a boss fight and raise that AC nicely.
MC Fighter/Paladin can do it a single time every fight though.
Sure it only need to be done once and then just keep hitting, but is it worth MC into Magus just for that? Would be simpler to use a Spellstoring weapon, or MC into Wizard and cast the spell normaly.
MC Fighter/Paladin can do it a single time every fight though.
Sure it only need to be done once and then just keep hitting, but is it worth MC into Magus just for that? Would be simpler to use a Spellstoring weapon, or MC into Wizard and cast the spell normaly.
I wouldn't MC into Magus for it. I would just do wizard or another class that could.
I was discussing the spell itself.
For a Magus it's ok. I figure you're taking it for style reasons. Magus not a great tank with 8 hit points a level and no heavy armor.
Yeah I was just thinking of "Could I make a tank 2 handed Magus ?"
And I thought this spell might be nice for that, and using a Fused Staff (Maybe a custom Abjuration staff focused on protective spell? a "Scepter of the Defender" thing) to get a few more casts of it.
Along with Sentinel dedication for Heavy Armor and some defensive reactions.
Yeah I was just thinking of "Could I make a tank 2 handed Magus ?"
And I thought this spell might be nice for that, and using a Fused Staff (Maybe a custom Abjuration staff focused on protective spell? a "Scepter of the Defender" thing) to get a few more casts of it.Along with Sentinel dedication for Heavy Armor and some defensive reactions.
Be interesting to see how it works.
Be interesting to see how it works.Yeah I was just thinking of "Could I make a tank 2 handed Magus ?"
And I thought this spell might be nice for that, and using a Fused Staff (Maybe a custom Abjuration staff focused on protective spell? a "Scepter of the Defender" thing) to get a few more casts of it.Along with Sentinel dedication for Heavy Armor and some defensive reactions.
Well, just have to find a group to play it I guess x) Ideally free archetype for sentinel or something else, but well.
Finding groups is haaaard man
Since it'd be a 1 use per day thing at most (costing a slot to someone) I don't think it would have been a big issue
For a 2 handed tank Magus I'd probablt go with witch dedication for the fast healing, in addition to the Inexorable iron hp.
Sentinel would also be a great investement, though I am not sure which order I'd take either dedications.
Sentinel has some trashcan feats so unless you plan to hold witch until human 9, you probably want to take witch at 2, get two feats at 4 and 8, and then sentinel and mighty bulwark at 10 and 12. Use human 1 to get heavy armor training via general training and retrain it at 10.
That's very, very specific setup right here. Would a party invest in like, 6 +3 spellstoring longswords for their paladin ?
That's very, very specific setup right here. Would a party invest in like, 6 +3 spellstoring longswords for their paladin ?
I think it's that each PC that wields a weapon would put a Spell Storing Rune on their own. Then the spell could be given to the whole party.
So it's not a single use per day by a single PC issue (if it's an issue that is).For a single person, they could load up on wands. Spell Storing is 13th level so multiple 3rd level wands would be relatively inexpensive by then. It only takes a minute to refill (which is nearly always available to get in PF2) and there's no limit on how many times per day. If there are multiple casters in the party, the PC should be able to get some of their low-level spells for their weapon.
Note that I'm not even sure Spell Storing is worthwhile because it's one nova attack per combat (albeit supernova if one waits for a crit, yet also with an investment cost to load) vs. something like Holy which keeps damaging, often triggering a Weakness. I suppose if one loads a spell particularly useful against the enemy (i.e. Searing Light vs. an ice-themed fiend; other than a Gelugon) or only uses their weapon secondarily (if there are such PCs by those levels!).
At the highest levels it could be worthwhile to have multiple Spell Storing weapons, perhaps as one's offhand weapon, though there's be a lot to juggle between the math & the actions, plus the Rune is Uncommon.