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Please remember that force is also functionally completely unresisted, including by incorporeal enemies. I think there's literally one enemy in the entire game that is capable of resisting force damage.
Let's assume it stays at 4d4, or even 3d4. For a level 6 slot, that's 24d4 initial, and 24d4 extra, averaging 60/60. At 3d4 per level, that averages 45/45. Now, what's another 6th level spell that deals force damage? Spirit Blast, at 56 damage. So you'll notice that even at 3d4 per level, it only loses 11 average damage for being multitarget (which is better than average, as I recall - standard AoE is approximately 66% ST), but also has double the range. Not to mention that it also has a second turn bonus if you're trying to save slots, or that it has a good critical failure effect, or that it also counteracts darkness effects as a bonus.
I want to see how functional it is. As I see martial classes regularly have 150 to 200 point rounds at the level this would do 180 potential damage, 180 points to a few targets for a 10th level slot is what I think direct damage spells should do. Martials can swing for rounds of that damage all day, but a caster would need 6 actions, 2 rounds, and a single 10th level slot to do this.
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Spirit Blast is also a really bad spell. 56 damage for a 6th slot is really not a lot comparative to the HP of enemies at that level.
But yes it is probably out of line with other spell damage, so either they errata that one spell to do less or every other spell to do more, and the former is way easier and way more likely.
I just hope it gets changed to 4d6 base 2d6 scaling, or 3d4 scaling, rather than 2d4 scaling which would be really awful.
Another thing I haven’t seen mentioned WRT 2 round spells - what happens if you get slowed or stunned in the middle of casting? Does the spell just fizzle completely?
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Please remember that force is also functionally completely unresisted, including by incorporeal enemies. I think there's literally one enemy in the entire game that is capable of resisting force damage.
Let's assume it stays at 4d4, or even 3d4. For a level 6 slot, that's 24d4 initial, and 24d4 extra, averaging 60/60. At 3d4 per level, that averages 45/45. Now, what's another 6th level spell that deals force damage? Spirit Blast, at 56 damage. So you'll notice that even at 3d4 per level, it only loses 11 average damage for being multitarget (which is better than average, as I recall - standard AoE is approximately 66% ST), but also has double the range. Not to mention that it also has a second turn bonus if you're trying to save slots, or that it has a good critical failure effect, or that it also counteracts darkness effects as a bonus.
It's a second level spell, so 4d4 + 4d4 less. 20d4 + 20d4 @6th lvl. Say you hit two targets with a line spell like this, @6th level you'll do 100 damage on average, per target, for 6 actions. Line starts with you, so you'd need a haste to reposition, or hit even less (the caster is charging up, lets not stay in formation...).
Now compare that to a Chain Lightning, 6th level, 2 actions. 8d12 -> 52 damage per target. I've seen Chain Lightning hit 5 targets multiple times already, the setup is really easy at the start of a fight. Start with the caster, follow up with any metal persons, continue with anything else.
It doesn't even compare. For 6 actions, you get nice damage which is very hard to setup (I agree with DF here, I don't use Line spells myself), where a Chain Lightning can outdamage it in two actions.
My bard would not use the spell as it is, I would prefer to use Biting Words at 6th lvl for 3x 12d6 and 4 actions which can be used in a minute, using the Shadow Signet for some extra effectiveness.
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It was a bug in the spell's description. The bug will be corrected in accordance with the Designers' game principles.
So, the thread's topic has been adressed. End of the story.
what is it with young people wanting to shut down conversation these days? An open dialog used to be something sought after.
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To that end, damage spells will basically always scale at or less than their initial damage divided by their spell level. In this case, there was a doubling error on our end and as you suspected, it should scale at 2d4 for initial, 2d4 for the extra actions. This is on the queue for errata to fix.
It is worth noting that while the vast majority of spells will scale linearly from zero, there are rare exceptions and precedents otherwise.
A notable example to consider here, and it feels thematically appropriate that this spell does in fact serve as a precedent, is Ki Blast...
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Spirit Blast is also a really bad spell. 56 damage for a 6th slot is really not a lot comparative to the HP of enemies at that level.
I actually rather like Spirit Blast for it's intended niche: ghost busting. A ghost mage only has 136 HP and undead have low fort saves. Thing has a 20% chance of critical failure and could potentially be one shot with a good damage roll. Force damage bypasses resistance, and the higher a creature's resistance the lower its base HP. Ghosts can also be hard to keep in melee range, are immune to precision, and "double dip" their resistance on multiple damage types, so elemental runes are generally useless on them.
From that perspective, Inner Radiance Torrent provides a way to bypass resistance while targeting reflex saves, something the divine and occult list lacks. That might be its intended niche, rather than simply being the more generally destructive Kamehameha people are wanting it to be. And to be fair it is OK to want that and be disappointed if you don't get it.
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what is it with young people wanting to shut down conversation these days? An open dialog used to be something sought after.It was a bug in the spell's description. The bug will be corrected in accordance with the Designers' game principles.
So, the thread's topic has been adressed. End of the story.
Thank you for calling me young :-D
Open dialog is great and should be in its own dedicated thread so that people are not misled by this thread's title.
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Spirit Blast is also a really bad spell. 56 damage for a 6th slot is really not a lot comparative to the HP of enemies at that level.
I actually rather like Spirit Blast for it's intended niche: ghost busting. A ghost mage only has 136 HP and undead have low fort saves. Thing has a 20% chance of critical failure and could potentially be one shot with a good damage roll. Force damage bypasses resistance, and the higher a creature's resistance the lower its base HP. Ghosts can also be hard to keep in melee range, are immune to precision, and "double dip" their resistance on multiple damage types, so elemental runes are generally useless on them.
From that perspective, Inner Radiance Torrent provides a way to bypass resistance while targeting reflex saves, something the divine and occult list lacks. That might be its intended niche, rather than simply being the more generally destructive Kamehameha people are wanting it to be. And to be fair it is OK to want that and be disappointed if you don't get it.
A ghost mage is also a level 10 creature. I generally don’t like using my highest level spells at level 11-12 to take out 40% of one level-1/2 creature.
If we’re having enough ghost trouble for me to seriously consider prepping Spirit Blast, its often better to just buy the ghost touch aeon stone for your martials. Ghosts are annoying with the whole phasing through walls thing, but with some reactions and a ghost touch stone you should be able to cut them up pretty easily unless the GM is outright trying to screw you by having them go through a wall, attack, and go back through the wall so you can’t attack back (at which point Ready actions are your friend and Spirit Blast won’t help much).
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So I've actually got to use the spell ingame, casting it for the full two rounds. Two targets. A bit over average damage @6th level. But the investment is high. Haste cast the round before casting IRT, to reposition if needed. One save, one fail. So around 160 damage. Not sure if that is worth the investment for three rounds.
I don't think this spells needs to be changed. Reducing the damage will mean it won't be used, I think.