Which is the better flying mount?

[Elias Darrowphayne]

I want people's opinions on flying mounts in 1E.
Below I present 2 Animal Companions, the Griffon and the Roc.
One is a base Animal Companion, the other requires Skill Prereqs and 2 feats.

**Griffon**
Prerequisite(s): Diplomacy, Intimidate, or Handle Animal 5 ranks; Ride 5 ranks.; Feat: Monstrous Mount, Monstrous Mount Mastery (for lvl 7 Mastery Ability)
Starting Statistics
Size Large; Speed 30 ft., fly 40 ft. (average; unable to carry a rider while flying); AC +4 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str 16, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 5, Wis 13, Cha 8; Languages Common (cannot speak); Special Qualities darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent.
7th-Level Advancement
Speed 40 ft., fly 80 ft. (average; unable to carry a rider while flying); AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6), 2 talons (1d6); Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2; Special Attacks pounce, rake (1d6).
Mastery (7th Level)
The Griffon can fly while carrying a rider but reduces its speed by half while doing so.

**Roc**
STARTING STATISTICS
Size Medium; AC +5 natural armor; Speed 20 ft., fly 80 ft.; Attack 2 talons (1d4), bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str 12, Dex 19, Con 9, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 11; Special Qualities low-light vision.
7TH-LEVEL ADVANCEMENT
Size Large; AC +3 natural armor; Attack 2 talons (1d6 plus grab), bite (1d8); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4.

So by lvl 7....

Gryphon:
Size: Large; AC: +6; Speed: 40ft., Fly 80ft, Fly 40ft (with rider); Attack: Bite (1D6), 2 Talons (1D6); Ability Scores: Str 18, Dex 15, Con 18, Int 5, Wis 13, Cha 8; Languages: Common (Cannot Speak); Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, Low-light Vision, Scent; Special Attacks: Pounce, Rake (1D6).

Roc:
Size: Large; AC: +8; Speed: 20ft., Fly 80ft; Attack: Bite (1D8), 2 Talons (1D6 Plus Grab); Ability Scores: Str 20, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 11; Languages: None; Special Qualities: Low-light Vision, Special Attacks: Grab.

Roc has +2 better AC, better fly speed (is not reduced with rider), has a 1 die sized better bite, has +2 better Str/Dex/Cha, and has the grab ability

Gryphon has +20 better land speed, +5 better Con, +3 better Int, Can understand a language, Darkvision, Scent, Pounce, and rake

My question is, why is the Roc better then the Gryphon? Is this bad design choice with the Griffon?

Roc doesn't reduce its fly speed by half, has better AC and most importantly does not requires Skills and 2 feats to use.

Is there something I'm missing? How can you maximize the benefits here?

[*Thelith]

Well, first off, the gryphon can understand complex instructions and follow them. That is a huge advantage.
It also works as a land mount for when you can't be flying, the Roc doesn't really with a 20 speed.

For pure movement on a flying mount obviously the Roc is far better.

Damage wise they are probably similar, dark vision, scent, pounce and rake are better than +2 str/dex and grab.

But yes, the gryphon requires investment that the roc doesn't.

The gryphon is better in every way except carrying you in the air.

Whether it's worth the investment probably depends on the character you're building.

[Azothath]

it comes down to the numbers and campaign considerations.

by the numbers a Roc is superior but it can be a big target. There's also feeding it and the piddly mundane considerations.

A griffon is more stylish and probably more acceptable for many GMs. There's also specific armors for the critters.

[Scavion]

A Griffon is extremely intelligent. That's an understated advantage in many situations. If you're looking for the biggest bang for least buck, a Roc is an excellent companion. But a Gryphon IS better in general.

[Name Violation]

Depends on things like what class.

Most cavaliers/palidans/rangers cant get a Roc since they have a limited selection of pets available

class features wrote:

Mount...Medium Cavaliers: Axe Beak, Camel, Elk, Giraffe, Horse, Seahorse, Giant, Tortoise, Giant, Zebra
Small Cavaliers: Antelope, Boar (requires 4th level), Capybara, Dog (requires 4th level), Kangaroo, Lizard (Giant Gecko), Pony, Ram, Reindeer, Stag, Weasel, Giant, Wolf, Wolfdog

Divine Bond... Medium Paladins: Camel, Elk, Giraffe, Horse, Seahorse, Giant, Yak, Zebra
Small Paladins: Antelope, Boar, Capybara, Dog, Eohippus, Pony, Ram, Reindeer, Stag, Weasel, Giant, Wolfdog

Hunter's Bond (Ex)...A ranger who selects an animal companion can choose from the following list: Antelope, Armorfish, Baboon, Badger, Bird (Eagle/Hawk/Owl), Bustard, Camel, Capybara, Cat, Small (Cheetah, Leopard), Constrictor Snake, Dire Rat, Dog, Elk, Falcon, Hobbe Hound, Horse, Kangaroo, Lizard (Giant Gecko), Marsupial Devil, Pony, Ram, Reef Snake, Reef Snake, Reindeer, Shark, Spitting Cobra, Stag, Stingray, Swan, Trumpeter, Thylacine, Venomous Snake, Wolf, Wolfdog, Yak, Zebra.

But only Paly/Ranger/Cavs can take monstrous mount and get a griffin since none of the other classes that get companions (like druid and hunter) meet the req

Monstrous mount wrote:

Prerequisites: Handle Animal 4 ranks; Ride 4 ranks; divine bond (mount), hunter’s bond (animal companion), or mount class feature with an effective druid level of 4.

[Elias Darrowphayne]

So this question comes from me trying to decide which flying mount to take as a Cleric (God Undetermined).

I could sub out one of my domains for the Chivalry Inquisition to gain the Mount Class Feature which would allow me to take the Monstrous Mount Feat for the Griffon

Or

I could take the Animal Domain and choose a Roc, taking the boon companion feat to make sure the Roc has full levels.

Though it has been brought up I could go: Exotic Heritage, Eldrich Heritage, Boon companion for a Roc as well if I wanted to keep both of my domains, alas feats are more important atm.

The campaign is a bit of a trek around the custom campaign setting while we look for a wayward noble who's family wants him back so mix of out door and indoor.

What is the best way as an Aasimar Cleric to get the most bang for my buck with Animal Companion? And before someone suggests it, I already know about Elastril's Evangelist boon, I just detest ranged combat so wont be going that route. I will be going deity's favored weapon + Shield and melee'ing when I'm not chucking spells and the occasional heal when its absolutely necessary. I AM NOT building a heal bot and my party knows that.

[JiCi]

The Giant Wasp, Giant Owl and Giant Vulture aren't bad either ;)

[avr]

The monstrous mounts were designed...conservatively. If you can get a roc then that's better bang for your buck, certainly.

[Azothath]

you probably want the Advice forum at this point.

[JiCi]

avr wrote:

The monstrous mounts were designed...conservatively. If you can get a roc then that's better bang for your buck, certainly.

The Roc can also double as a giant eagle/hawk/falcon when it comes to flavor.

No need to keep it as a roc... when you can have a bald version XD