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Obviously because of the nature of the interview, we couldn’t ask every question we got and at this stage of the Playtest, the Star Chamber hasn’t been able to thoroughly assess feedback yet, so we’re hoping to have either John or Joe (perhaps both) back for our October or November show once the data’s been reviewed for an update on how the playtest went. But since it’s still going, please continue to give your feedback because it is being listened to!
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In the spirit of this, I’m going to provide some of my own thoughts on what I perceive to be the evolutionist’s rough patches, aka my top 3 “concerns” and what would make me think twice about whether I wanted to play this class, below. I hope that we can start a dialogue that creates more top-rate feedback for the Star Chamber!
1) The description of this class made me think it was gonna be a shapeshifter and it’s not, and that frustrated me. Starfinder’s polymorph rules aren’t great for combat, so I thought based on the description that this was gonna be the combat polymorph class and it wasn’t, which was really disappointing to me. It wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of the negatively surrounding the Playtest stemmed from this missed expectation.
2) EP is too much like vanguard points. This is an aesthetics thing, but I feel the EP mechanic works too much like a vanguard’s entropy points in practice. They’re both even different kinds of EP, which is bound to get confusing. In talking with John, since this class is supposed to feel like “corruptions the class,” I think the stronger option is to model the progress after an affliction. Instead of EP bench marks, give the class steps similar to an affliction with each step having a minimum level requirement to attain it. A much more homogenized progression would likely help sell the feel of a transformation, since that way there is a tangible point where you’re “fully transformed” aka “transformed as far as you can.”
3) This class wants to be a combatant / expert hybrid, but it lacks the math to do either well. One of the biggest problems with the evolutionist is that in order to have maximum effectiveness in combat, they need to spend their points on a full BAB. Even if that isn’t the only way to spend your points, it’s always going to feel like the only way to spend your points. Additionally, this class doesn’t have enough starting skills, and since Intelligence isn’t it’s key score (unlike operative or
biohacker or mechanic), it is always going to feel dramatically behind. The evolutionist needs 6 skill ranks per level for the same reason the vanguard does; it just doesn’t have the combat power to justify having fewer.
Additionally, instead of spending EP for a BAB bonus, it should just have 3/4 BAB but gain a scaling boost to attack rolls with unarmed strikes and adaptive strikes, similar to how the biohacker handles the same problem. (Though maybe with better bonus scaling, since the biohacker’s bonus doesn’t fully make up for not having full BAB.
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That was a quality podcast, and I appreciate you and John Compton for that interview!
I feel you hit the nail on the head, especially with the first point. There's a large disconnect between the possible character concepts described in the podcast versus what the class actually lets you do.
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There's a large disconnect between the possible character concepts described in the podcast versus what the class actually lets you do.
That's my big problem with the class. The mechanics of the class are waaayyy too conservative. I want to *transform*, not get a small handful of niche bonuses and penalties.
To me, the whole discussion about whether the EP system is good or bad is getting lost in the weeds. The big question is whether the class is even delivering on its promises, which really does not seem to be the case.
I'd like to see things like choosing and switching out augmentations on the fly for free, full form changes like polymorph that could last hours, out-of-combat utility like web-spinners, innate arcane hijinks, or doing some robot stuff like generating atmosphere or recharging batteries.
There doesn't appear to much of that kind of thing *at all*
I was looking at AI Mechanic, and it fulfilled the described fantasy a lot better than this class. I was hoping for something like that, but for undead, magic, and chimeras.
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Also, forgot to mention my favorite line from the podcast
Oras the god of evolution be like, "I like you! Here, have 15 wings!"
"Um, thank you?"
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Totally agree with Alex's first two points.
The class definitely doesn't do what I imagined it could, as the various "mutations" it gains are largely ephemeral. I think the most exciting feature is the Adaptive Strike, because it marries mechanical utility with an evocative "creative writing prompt". Essentially, it says "You've got some kind of cool permanent appendage that lets you hurt things. It could be one of these suggestions, but it could be anything you want really. Go Wild!". I think that's really exciting. That said, I wish "hurty appendage" wasn't the only approach an evolutionist could take, as it seems to at least partially pigeonhole them into a martial - regardless of their Focus at 7th level.
Several of the adaptations are also very cool (in terms of imagined visuals especially), but everything is so short duration that I don't feel like I'm really augmenting my character and making them more unique as I level up.
As for the second point Alex makes, EP as a combat resource feels really out of place here. I don't see why it should be something that accumulates during combat, and a definitely don't feel its appropriate for a "mutation", "evolution" resource. I think it's needlessly fiddly. Based on experience GMing for vanguards, they forget their own EP and what their AC should be at on a regular basis.
On point three though, I checked the math for the class and it seems basically fine to me. The combat Focus in particular puts the evolutionist more or less on similar footing with Soldiers and Solarians (maybe 10-15% behind, assuming the weapon wielders are keeping their weapon upgraded). So as far as combat math is concerned, so long as you're always spending EP to get full BAB, you're golden.
Totally agree with Alex's first two points.
The class definitely doesn't do what I imagined it could, as the various "mutations" it gains are largely ephemeral. I think the most exciting feature is the Adaptive Strike, because it marries mechanical utility with an evocative "creative writing prompt". Essentially, it says "You've got some kind of cool permanent appendage that lets you hurt things. It could be one of these suggestions, but it could be anything you want really. Go Wild!". I think that's really exciting.
I agree here. I love that you can turn Adaptive Strike on and off and that it actually changes you in a visual way when you manifest it. A shame there's no mechanics that hook onto this transformative effect, like abilities that work differently depending on whether you're "normal" or have the adaptive strike manifested.
Is there any update on another show with a focus on evolutionist, as stated in the first post? I would love to hear any sort of news. I must've read through these forums five or six times, so excited for this class.