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What exactly are the point of these?
The options we have presently aren't quite grand enough to warrant also taking penalties to balance it out.
I think the benefits are pretty good, but the drawback sure seems to eclipse them for most niches. Feels like Oracle Curses all over again. Fantastic flavor (the undead one especially), and I love that the drawbacks matter, but I don't feel like I'm getting away with something in exchange for the drawback.
Which is the issue, having a drawback, especially if it ties into the flavor, isn't bad in and of itself, but it does need to justify itself.
Right now it feels like a drawback just for the sake of having a drawback and not as a balance.
Other classes give free weapons and stronger stats, without having to deal with drawbacks at all.
I liked some of the curses (Some just felt like shooting yourself in the foot) but the drawbacks for me have basically made me thing half of the Niche are not worth using. Like you said, the benefits don't really stack up to the penalties.
I mean you are getting a free weapon, which is a pretty hefty chunk of money saved, and the instinct bonuses seem nice. (Vital instinct gives you a decent chunk of healing, followed by fast healing for you and a friend. Which is then boosted by your own innate healing boost...)
I really wouldn't call that a decent chunk of healing, and that's your baseline abilities for your niche... which is baseline, you shouldn't be penalized for just the baseline.
As pointed out as well other classes get free scaling weapons and better abilities with no drawback. Right now Evolutionist has nothing to justify having a Drawback.
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Solarions get 1/2 scaling weapons, and if they want the other half they have to buy crystals that cost as much as weapons.
Vanguards, I would have to look at but my recollection is that their scaling depends on spending Entropy.
Vital gets 1.5 x level healing in the first round, and 1+.833× level for the next several rounds, and heals one adjacent ally 1+0.333×level
So for a level 8 that is 12 sp +7×3 for them (33 sp) and 9 sp for an ally.
And it doesn't cost an action.
And they can do it once per 10 min rest.
Solarions getting to use Weapon Crystals and Infusions on their weapon isn't really a drawback.
Vital get's their level a round, and they get additional healing (the first time each round IF they have EP) equal to their EP, so 1 or 2 extra most of the time before you get higher and higher in level.
And it costs a Swift Action to activate it.
Again, not a lot, and doesn't justify the Drawback.
Once Per 10 min rest is even worse since it means you won't get to use it every fight, that is not a good thing.
My PC for the last 7 levels was a nanocyte and I got to enjoy only having to spend wbl on 1 weapon while getting like 6. That the damage for their weapon scales faster than a solar weapon at level 6+ doesn't outweigh the flaws of the class let along justify drawbacks, especially if you are playing in those first 6 levels where you adaptive weapon is equivalent to just a 100 to 150 credit purchase.
Solarions getting to use Weapon Crystals and Infusions on their weapon isn't really a drawback.
Vital get's their level a round, and they get additional healing (the first time each round IF they have EP) equal to their EP, so 1 or 2 extra most of the time before you get higher and higher in level.
And it costs a Swift Action to activate it.
Again, not a lot, and doesn't justify the Drawback.
Once Per 10 min rest is even worse since it means you won't get to use it every fight, that is not a good thing.
Also this is the entire Vital Niche's main ability and you can't even do it all the time.
You can have slight fast healing for 3 rounds every 10 minutes, that's all your class can do, and then you have to deal with the Drawback the entire time unless you take one of the Adaptions that let you burn EP.
Look at what Solarion, Vanguard, Soldier, Operative, Mechanic, and Nanocyte can do every round for every fight and now look at what little Vital can do, let alone what all Evolutionists can do.
*checks*
Yep yep, what I get for trying to be thorough while speed reading it.
So that’s good.
Vital’s Drawback is not situational, penalty to Will Saves and then at 3 unable to use Intelligence and Charisma checks as well as casting? That’s pretty severe for slight fast healing for 3 rounds every rest.
As for playing, no, I don’t have a Starfinder group, but even then, and knowing this is a early access Playtest and all the buggyness that entails there’s not enough there to appeal to me to want to play the class.
And yes I know that’s only half of playtesting as playing it and looking over it are two different things.
The class just isn’t enticing nor appealing.
Drawbacks
Your body increasingly operates on a magical level, leaving you vulnerable to mundane threats. While you have at least 1 EP, the first time you take damage from a non-magical source since the end of your last turn, you take additional damage equal to half your evolutionist level plus the number of EP you have. While you have at least 3 EP, you can’t voluntarily lower your spell resistance.
While you have at least 1 EP, the first time you take either type of damage you chose for your instinct above since the end of your last turn, you take additional damage equal to half your evolutionist level plus the number of EP you have.
If you have 3 or more EP, you become increasingly robotic. You’re treated as both a construct and your creature type—whichever type allows an ability to affect you for abilities that only affect one type, and whichever is worse for abilities that affect both types. Such effects continue to affect you even if you have fewer than 3 EP later in the effect’s duration. In addition, you can’t gain morale bonuses, and you take a penalty equal to half your EP total (rounded up) to Charisma- based skill checks except Intimidate.
Once per round while you have at least 1 EP and reduce a living creature to 0 HP with your adaptive strike, you must attempt a Will save whose DC equal 10 + 1/2 your character level + the number of EP you have. If you fail, you must take your first action of your next turn to either make another attack with your adaptive strike that includes the defeated creature as a target or take a move action to spend at least 1 EP with no effect.
While you have 3 or more EP, the first time you regain Hit Points or Stamina Points from an effect—other than from your grim harvest ability (see below)—you decrease the number of HP or SP you regain by an amount equal to half your EP total, rounded up (minimum 1 HP or SP recovered). The amount by which you reduce the HP or SP you regain increases to your EP total at 7th level, 1-1/2 × your EP total at 10th level, 2 × your EP total at 13th level, and 3 × your EP total at 17th level.
Your mind and body react with greater impulsiveness and less control. While you have at least 1 EP, you take a penalty to Will saves equal to half the number of EP you have (rounded up). While you have at least 3 EP, you can’t use any ability that requires patience or concentration, such as spellcasting or any Charisma- or Intelligence-based skills except Intimidate.
These are all horrible, in the vein of “not touching with a 10ft laser pole” horrible.
There is no justification for these.
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These drawbacks are also crippling for a class focused around combat. Combat is the only thing this class can do and it's already at a disadvantage because it has fewer hit points, poor proficiencies, and a 3/4 BAB.
But every one of these drawbacks is absolutely crippling for a pure combat class. Eldritch and Mechanized causes you to take a significant amount of extra damage from common damage types. Sepulchral lowers your healing and forces you to waste an action if you down an opponent (therefore punishing you for doing what your class is supposed to do). Vital cripples your worst saving throw.
It's good that the drawbacks are meaningful, but you get almost nothing for drawbacks that make you bad at what your class is supposed to be good at.
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At this point, the drawbacks are a major reason why I am not even particularly keen to test the class. I have some other issues, but it seems like a lot of work and points juggling for no real benefit as far as gameplay is concernend.
It feels a bit like the class wants you to have more and more EP, wants you to spend them, wants you to get into combat, but also wants you to punish you for getting into combat.
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I think that the main problem with the drawbacks is that they're out of place in Starfinder. This isn't Vampire, where "A beast I am, lest a beast I become." I can't think of another class that has to deal with serious penalties created by itself. The closest comparison is Corruptions from Signal of Screams, which, frankly, are viewed as something you want to get rid of, or at least mitigate permanently.
In order for the drawbacks to be meaningful, they have to be the gateway to serious power... which means that Evolutionists need to do the one thing they do, Combat, better than the competition. But Soldiers are more prepared with their multitude of feats and gear boosts, Solarians do more damage, Vanguards are better tanks, and Nanocytes are more adaptable.
So I ask, what are we getting for all the hassle of the Evolution Teetertotter? What does the Evolutionist do better than anyone else to need mitigation through drawbacks?
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At this point, the drawbacks are a major reason why I am not even particularly keen to test the class. I have some other issues, but it seems like a lot of work and points juggling for no real benefit as far as gameplay is concernend.
It feels a bit like the class wants you to have more and more EP, wants you to spend them, wants you to get into combat, but also wants you to punish you for getting into combat.
See, this is what I *like* about this class.
"Yet, your evolution boasts a will of its own. It fights you for control in stressful situations even while providing lethal instincts, an innate weapon, and spontaneous adaptations that help you outmaneuver, outwit, and outmatch your foes"
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I think that the main problem with the drawbacks is that they're out of place in Starfinder. This isn't Vampire, where "A beast I am, lest a beast I become." I can't think of another class that has to deal with serious penalties created by itself. The closest comparison is Corruptions from Signal of Screams, which, frankly, are viewed as something you want to get rid of, or at least mitigate permanently.
In order for the drawbacks to be meaningful, they have to be the gateway to serious power... which means that Evolutionists need to do the one thing they do, Combat, better than the competition. But Soldiers are more prepared with their multitude of feats and gear boosts, Solarians do more damage, Vanguards are better tanks, and Nanocytes are more adaptable.
So I ask, what are we getting for all the hassle of the Evolution Teetertotter? What does the Evolutionist do better than anyone else to need mitigation through drawbacks?
I agree that I would like to see a bit more power. But one thing it does better than anyone else is weapon specialization.
It does need a lot more options in adaptations as well, but those will come with the main release.
I agree that I would like to see a bit more power. But one thing it does better than anyone else is weapon specialization.
I see the weapon specialization as a slapdash effort to make the class contend with Solarian and Soldier for damage. Unless the damage is better than anyone else, I don't see that meriting drawbacks.
As it stands, 1.5xlevel spec damage isn't even that rare, now that everyone can get natural weapons for 1000 credits.
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I'm not a huge fan of putting it on the player to remember their drawback--that's the exact opposite of how I'd like the incentives to work.
I'll be trying to keep them in mind, but with as many concussions as I've had, I know I'll be forgetting them!
Having a plausible frontliner with 6 sp/hp per level and light armor and drawbacks that frequently result in them taking more damage is also a very weird decision to me. We'll see how it playtests, but I suspect that they're going to be pretty squishy.
So at what level can you expect enemies to have magic weapons fairly consistently? So far I have encountered 0 up to level 6. At these low levels, those extra few points of damage you allow an enemy to have can matter. When enemies might actually start having magic weapons, a couple damage becomes less noticeable.
My party has magic weapons, mostly Called and a conservative(?)fusion. I have looked at some APs and haven't noticed anyone with a fusion from memory and none of the AA have fusions on weapons. I haven't noticed any special beastie who does deal magic damage. At least with the Mech you have 2 damage types to keep track of.
Quite a few boss enemies in APs have fusions, but not the nameless people they send after you before the end of book showdown.