The Halfling Sling Staff has no melee mechanics in the weapon entry, but the Staff Acrobat Dedication explicitly includes proficiency in the Sling Staff as a prerequisite.
Staff Acrobat is very melee-centric. How does that work with the Sling Staff?
The Halfling Sling Staff has no melee mechanics in the weapon entry, but the Staff Acrobat Dedication explicitly includes proficiency in the Sling Staff as a prerequisite.
Staff Acrobat is very melee-centric. How does that work with the Sling Staff?
Nothing requires a melee strike.
Levering Strike: "Make a Strike with your staff." Melee isn't a requirement. You can make someone flat-footed from 400' away. For fun, you can quickdraw a Bolas and tale advantage of it's –2 circumstance penalty to its DC against Trip.
Pivot Strike: "You Leap and then Strike using your staff" Melee isn't a requirement.
The rest are an "attempt to Shove or Trip creatures" which works just fine. Only Whirlwind Stance doesn't work with one as it doesn't have Parry. This one requires you be close but not necessarily in melee as various things allow reach: for instance, a Grippli with Tongue Tether and Snaptongue can trip 10'. Or Syu Tak-Nwa's Hexed Locks is another option.
Nothing requires a melee strike.
fair 'nuff!
Thanks everyone!
The sweep strike requires the enemies to be within your reach, so you can't do it ranged ( nor with a ranged attack since the missing reload 0. It seems something intended to be achieved with a melee strike).
#1 what prevents a ranged attack within reach?
#2 what prevents loading before getting into reach and/or loading within it?#3 what prevents the user from having a greater reach then their target?
#4 How did you divine intent? IMO it seems pretty clear that it wasn't intended to exclude ranged strikes when it intentionally included ranged only weapons and doesn't exclude ranged by stating 'melee strikes' in the feats.
#5 You are also allowed the use of the Filcher's Fork, Spear and Trident which have the thrown trait: IMO, if using that trait was unintended, it seems odd to exclude melee from the Strike references.
Same goes with shove action, and it's pushing the enemy away from you and following it ( and I'd also include the trip action, because of the critical failure effect. How could you fall on the ground prone without some contrast? ).
Sure... Again, what prevents you from doing all of that in reach? I may not be the best idea if that foe has a reaction triggered by it, but nothing prevents shooting and/or reloading within a creatures reach.
Not to say that the dedication specifically says "you can do X even without a free hand" Nothing about being ranged, but just removing the needs for a free hand.
Not sure what your point is here. Absolutely nothing I mentioned involves using the slingstaff for ranged shoves or trips. That doesn't mean that there aren't other means to use those shoves or trips with melee or ranged after you've made your Strike [ranged or melee].
Levering strike seems to be ok even with a ranged attack though, as well as part of the pivot strike, though the name speaks from itself.
Which was my point: the name though, is meaningless IMO. I mean you do NOT have to use a fist to use Stunning Fist after all...
On pivot strike, you can use it all, just not with a slingstaff. There are various ways to get reach or range with trip/shoves. As mentioned, a Grippli with Tongue Tether and Snaptongue or a Witch [or multiclass one] with Syu Tak-Nwa's Hexed Locks both have 10' reach so if they wanted to make a ranged attack vs a target with 5' reach they are out of the foes reach but inside their own for a Trip. It doesn't say the shove/trip is with the 'staff'.
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I let people use the halfling sling staff as a regular staff in melee.
I let people use the halfling sling staff as a regular staff in melee.I'd do the same.
Ps: Do you consider it like a staff wielded with two hands ( 1d8 damage ) or a staff meant to be used with either 1 hand or 2 hands ( with the two handed trait ) depends what the character wants to do?
I let them use it exactly as a staff, so choosing either or if they change their grip. By default, it's two handed since that's how they use it with range, although releasing a hand is easy enough. It's a lot of flexibility in a weapon, but it's still just a staff. 1d8 2hand damage and 1d4 1hand isn't going to wreck anything.
My reasoning is that a sling staff is really just a staff with a string on it. If weirdo magic staves with knobs and bells and feathers and stuff can do the job as a staff, a sling staff reasonably should as well.
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My point was that since you are required to be within melee reach, you won't probably use a ranged attack which might trigger a reaction, so you'd stick with a melee maneuver meant to "Sweep" up enemies.
It's an athletics check, no real attacks involved, but reading the whole archetype it seems clear to me the intent is to give more maneuvers in melee.
My point is that PF2 made it so the default is that there wasn't an issue with ranged combat within melee range: it's only specific creatures that have reactions triggered by it. You are therefor conflating melee and melee range even though they are different things. having to be close enough to make a melee attack isn't the same as having to make one.
Depending on your table and the foes you face, the frequency of foe reactions could vary a lot so IMO it's hard to take a firm stance against ranged fire in melee range.
I don't expect, nor I read in the description, that a staff acobat would be able to trip or shove enemies by kicking or biting them. The character is now competenet enought with a staff ( or polearm ) to trip or shove enemies within his reach ( Though I have nothing against the visual effect of a bouncing projectile which trips 2 enemies, apart from the reloading stuff before, during and after ).
I read it as you are competent enough "to trip or shove enemies by kicking or biting them". The base feat allows you to High Jump, Leap, or Long Jump with it so I'm expecting it be be an archetype that's jumping around and doing something other than 'hit it' with the staff. IMO spinning around on the staff to kick or using it to vault towards a foe to bite them is 100% in theme.
"You can perform amazing acts in and out of combat when you have a spear, staff, or polearm.": note how it's phrased. 'You can perform amazing acts when you have a staff' not 'You can perform amazing acts WITH a staff'. IMO, the distinction is clear. You seem to ignore the acrobat part of Staff Acrobat.
I admit that the sling staff is in a strange spot, but that's it.
I'll agree. I have NO idea why it wasn't given a melee option past 'improvised club'...
It's the point of the class itself.
Though you won't probably be able to trip and shove normally with a staff, with this dedication you can if you are "wielding" one.
I mean, reading this
You can Shove and Trip even if you don’t have a free hand, provided you are wielding your staff.What you understand is not that you'll be able to trip and shove enemies wielding your staff? It's the only logical interpretation to me.
I don't expect, nor I read in the description, that a staff acobat would be able to trip or shove enemies by kicking or biting them. The character is now competenet enought with a staff ( or polearm ) to trip or shove enemies within his reach ( Though I have nothing against the visual effect of a bouncing projectile which trips 2 enemies, apart from the reloading stuff before, during and after ).
I admit that the sling staff is in a strange spot, but that's it.
No, the point of the staff acrobat staff is that you're staff acrobat. It doesn't let you shove or trip with the "staff" using it's weapon statistics (pertinent for say, having reach on the staff) as it doesn't give the weapon those traits, or say you treat it as if it has those traits, or something like that. It also means that potency runes on the weapon wouldn't apply to those maneuvers, since it doesn't say that it does.
It just says you can trip or shove without a free hand provided you're wielding your staff, which means yeah, you can do it with a sling staff. Or heck, a cooking utensil (filcher's fork) and a shield.
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There is nothing in the slingstaff entry that says it isn't a staff.
If you look at the historical version of the slingstaff, it is simply a staff with some cloth or leather stips attached to it.
(as distinct from the wacky artist who thought a slingstaff should look like an oversized slingshot)