It's been a fair few years since I last played a PF game, and I'm more than a little rusty. We're going to be going through the Tyrant's Grasp AP, and I'm strongly thinking of playing a goblin alchemist, largely because I've never played one and they look like a blast to play. (pun intended)
We're a very small group, so there are only two PCs with what will probably be a healbot NPC tagging along for the ride. So, we're starting with 25 points for stats and, probably, an extra Feat.
I have two main goals for the wee beastie: explode/debuff/cause chaos all over the battlefield, and at least once turn into a flying, massively buffed giant squid and wreck stupid amounts of face.
I'm thinking dump CHA and push DEX & INT. (duh!) After that, I'm staring at all those options, wondering where to start.
Is the fire bomber any good? On paper, it appears not due to only adding INT to fire bomb damage combined with the reduced save DCs for admixtured bombs. That, and I've always been underwhelmed by the elemental body spells.
If not the fire bomber, should I stick with vanilla alchemist or grab grenadier? Something else?
And, is it reasonable to be a bomb specialist *and* an occasional adequate-to-good polymorphing melee-er? (Bull's strength + mutagen + beast shape seems good on paper, but I don't know....)
Anyway, help & advice would be very welcome.
No, fire bomber is not very good. Not unworkable necessarily, but a step below the standard alchemist.
Beastmorph and grenadier are both useful all-round alchemist archetypes. And yes it's possible to be a missile/bomb specialist who sometimes turns into a monster to eat faces. You'll need to not dump Str, and you'll want to spend one feat on piranha strike or similar.
|
I never understand how people can play a goblin in Pathfinder.
Goblins in Pathfinder are pure evil rats, the curse of every town and city.
I just can't get my head around how a goblin could e.g. enter a city (e.g. Sandpoint) without getting killed on sight by the guards or an adventure party or participate in any social situation...
I never understand how people can play a goblin in Pathfinder.
Goblins in Pathfinder are pure evil rats, the curse of every town and city.
I just can't get my head around how a goblin could e.g. enter a city (e.g. Sandpoint) without getting killed on sight by the guards or an adventure party or participate in any social situation...
This has crossed my mind a few times, as well. And in PF1, they are stacked, as if you are supposed to play them. But it really does seem like it would be distracting unless you were playing the Star Wars cantina alien melting pot setting where a Minotaur playing chess with a Kasatha in the corner is perfectly normal.
I would imagine in any common PF1 setting, Goblins would be slain on sight. Even accompanied by a party of adventurers... because Goblins have probably tried to enter the town as 3 Goblins in a trench coat escorting a 4th Goblin "prisoner"... or the giant wooden rabbit filled with Goblins left outside the front gate... the town's guardsmen.. every towns' guardsmen is fully aware of and on guard against the constant Goblin menace.
But Goblins do, generally, make decent Alchemists.
Hmmm... one post that offered some advice, and two complaining about goblin PCs. Thank you very much, avr. I appreciate the help.
I may be wrong, but isn't there an AP with a civilized goblin living in the starting town, who recruits the characters to help her relatives in a nearby ruined castle? Something something hostage scene ensues, IIRC.
For a small party there is also the goblin acrhtype 'winged marauder'. Having a companion and flaying could help survival.
|
|
Sorry, for the "Goblin-Rant", but it really bothers me. :)
For the alchemist: I would always go with the basic alchemist. The archetypes are always "trade-offs" while the basic alchemist is a vell-versed allrounder (which is what you need in a small group).
I wouldn't specialize to much into one direction. You can use bombs on range and then your mutagen and melee when the enemies are closing in (basically a switch hitter bomber).
Maybe in combination with en enlarge infusion for the "Hulk effect".
For a small party there is also the goblin acrhtype 'winged marauder'. Having a companion and flaying could help survival.
I thought about that, but the winged marauder gives up mutagen. So, I'd have to give up on the whole polymorph-and-rend idea.
Sorry, for the "Goblin-Rant", but it really bothers me. :)
No problem. We all have our pet peeves.
For the alchemist: I would always go with the basic alchemist. The archetypes are always "trade-offs" while the basic alchemist is a vell-versed allrounder (which is what you need in a small group).
I wouldn't specialize to much into one direction. You can use bombs on range and then your mutagen and melee when the enemies are closing in (basically a switch hitter bomber).
Maybe in combination with en enlarge infusion for the "Hulk effect".
I was thinking something like:
STR 10, DEX 17, CON 14, INT 17, WIS 12, CHA 8 (after racial adjustments)1 Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot (2nd Feat given to all PCs by GM)
2 discovery: tanglefoot bomb
3 Rapid Shot (I'm reasonably sure I can use this with bombs.)
4 discovery: frost bomb
5 Splash Weapon Mastery OR Weapon Finesse
I'm not sure which one to go with. I have to take Weapon Finesse to qualify for Piranha Strike, so I'd like to take it early. I'm just not sure whether the mediocre BAB needs the extra +1 with the bombs v. touch AC.
6 discovery: directed bombs (this seems better than precise bombs)
7 Weapon Finesse OR Piranha Strike (depending on what I took at 5th)
8 discovery: fast bombs OR discovery: force bomb
Considering the AP's guide says "undead" a lot, I'm leaning toward force bomb.
After this, I'm not sure at all. Would the promethean disciple discovery be worth it as a way to add more bodies on the field for such a small group? I suppose it depends on how much time and gold we wind up with.
Would going with Two Weapon Fighting for more bombs thrown in a round be better than adding something for melee survivability?
Also, should I not worry about STR, since I'm going with DEX fighting?
In any case, thanks to everyone who's offered some advice so far.
Rapid shot (or TWF) only works with bombs once you have the fast bombs discovery, until then you're limited to 1/round. The throw splash weapon special attack doesn't upgrade to a full attack naturally.
I don't agree about the no alchemist archetypes for an all-rounder - poison is useless for most PCs and sacrificing class features relating to its use doesn't hurt at all. Poison resistance/immunity is nice but not essential, and brew potion is very iffy.
10 Str might be a bit low for someone planning to engage in melee if you don't have piranha strike. Five or so 1d4+1 attacks at 7th level (from MP 1: gargoyle, say) won't easily add up to much damage. OTOH touch attacks with your bombs will hit a lot, really, splash weapon mastery may not be necessary.
Rapid shot (or TWF) only works with bombs once you have the fast bombs discovery, until then you're limited to 1/round. The throw splash weapon special attack doesn't upgrade to a full attack naturally.
Ah. Good to know.
I don't agree about the no alchemist archetypes for an all-rounder - poison is useless for most PCs...
Yeah, I was eyeing grenadier for exactly that reason. If I want to poison someone, I'll just polymorph into something appropriate.
10 Str might be a bit low for someone planning to engage in melee if you don't have piranha strike.
My thought was to self buff before polymorphing. Bull's strength, then mutagen, then polymorph would give me at least +8 STR. But that was before the suggestion to get piranha strike, which would allow me to use cat's grace and mutagen on top of an already large DEX instead.
Well... Winged Marauder gives up Mutagen, But unlike some archetypes does NOT say you cant gain it again, So if you are willing to sacrifice a discovery (Or Extra discovery feat) You can pick up the Mutagen Discovery to regain mutagen. You will still be missing Persistent Mutagen, And you will be down a discovery, But it is an idea if you where interested in Winged Marauder!
True, but I'd also have to pay a toll in feats to be effective while riding the bat/vulture. At the very least, mounted combat and mounted archery would be necessary to avoid hefty to-hit penalties with my bombs and infused arrows (from grenadier). Throw in extra discovery, and I'm left wondering how I'd squeeze weapon finesse and piranha strike into the build.
Also, I like gear, and the bat especially would practically need to be buffed with ant haul in order to be able to carry me, let alone my stuff.
And, the AP's guide mentions a lot of underground adventuring. I expect a lot of places with 10 to 15 foot ceilings and not a lot of room for maneuvering.
|
|
Poisons are really strange in Pathfinder.
At the start they were total useless, then came the "attribute track rules" which made them feasable, but also much more complex.
Also the price is a big downer.
If you want to skip the poison use, maybe the Grenadier is indeed a good alternative to the "base alchemist".