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Choose a second type of divine ally and gain its benefits.
Choosing the same type again is not choosing a second type. So no, you can't have 2 Blade Allies.
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RAW: No!
RAI: Why not?!
Balance: No problem!
Worth: Take a two-handed weapon! Waste a lvl 8 feat to just to allow a second weapon to be a blade ally doesn't worth at all.
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RAW: No!
RAI: Why not?!
Balance: No problem!
Worth: Take a two-handed weapon! Waste a lvl 8 feat to just to allow a second weapon to be a blade ally doesn't worth at all.
I want to make a dual weapon paladin, without second blade I'll only have CRIT specialization with one of the weapons and only smite evil with one too.
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Choose a second type of divine ally and gain its benefits.Choosing the same type again is not choosing a second type. So no, you can't have 2 Blade Allies.
There is nothing saying explicitly that's a different type, it's ambiguous at least. Even if the most common use for this wording is to refer to a different option.
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I agree with YuriP
RAW: No. Second type ≠ Second. Technically the type has to be different based on a strict reading of the English language
RAI / Balance: I honestly don't see a reason why it would be a problem to get two weapons.
Houserule: I would just allow it for those two specific weapons that the character is typically using (especially if they are Twin weapons). It doesn't seem overpowered to me. The problem would be if it was allowed to switch around to whatever weapon you happened to be using in your other hand. Initially I was thinking of letting it work with Doubling Rings, but realized that this would be a problem because of that switching around power.
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There is nothing saying explicitly that's a different type, it's ambiguous at least. Even if the most common use for this wording is to refer to a different option.Choose a second type of divine ally and gain its benefits.Choosing the same type again is not choosing a second type. So no, you can't have 2 Blade Allies.
Hmm... Actually, yes - the rules text doesn't explicitly specify the types of Divine Allies. It is implicitly defined though.
"The following are divine allies:" = "These are the types of divine allies:"
So Blade ally, Shield ally, or Steed ally. At least until other types are published.
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TBH I would allow the Blade Ally to be done on two weapons with the following limits : both weapons are affected by the same rune effect and if you are not wielding both at the same time, the effect is suspended until you are wielding both again. And if the effect is additional damage, it affects only one weapon.
There is nothing saying explicitly that's a different type, it's ambiguous at least. Even if the most common use for this wording is to refer to a different option.
Sorry about my question. But why do you want to have 2 weapons with a paladin? What do you want to do with your build? Do you will take some dedication feat?
I said this because there little benefits to having two weapons in PF2 except do you have some feat or class ability that gives you some reduction in MAP.
There is nothing saying explicitly that's a different type, it's ambiguous at least. Even if the most common use for this wording is to refer to a different option.Sorry about my question. But why do you want to have 2 weapons with a paladin? What do you want to do with your build? Do you will take some dedication feat?
I said this because there little benefits to having two weapons in PF2 except do you have some feat or class ability that gives you some reduction in MAP.
My guess is that they are running Dual Weapon Warrior dedication, which has the Double Slice feat. Or, they might have taken Ranger dedication and are wanting to utilize Twin Takedown. Certainly not unreasonable, given that most Champion feats from levels 1-4 are pretty bad except for a couple of them, making Dedication feats much more attractive by comparison.
As it stands, the RAW would suggest that selecting a second ally doesn't mean that it can't be another Blade Ally. That being said, there's also no RAW to suggest that the second Blade Ally can't also be in the same weapon, thereby promoting weapon property stacking cheese, which I doubt is intended.
As an example, if a 10th level Champion is wielding a +1 Striking Shocking weapon at this level, and selects the Radiant Blade Spirit feat, both the original Blade Ally and the Second Blade ally could add both Flaming and Holy to this hypothetical weapon, since there is no RAW that either denies the second ally to also be a Blade, nor states it can't be put on the same weapon. That means a 10th level Champion would have 3 property runes on a weapon built only to have 1. (Yes, +2 weapons are around the corner, but that's not really relevant to the point being made.) That's pretty overpowered for what is essentially 1 base feature with two mid-level class feats. Bonus points if they take the 20th level feat that gives them Keen for free, too.
So personally? I'd just avoid the headache and say it has to be a different type. It makes it weaker by comparison, and shuts out some builds, but keeps things more conservative in regards to power creep.
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RAW indicates that you can't have a second blade ally.
Personally, I'd allow it so I don't have to keep being persnickity about which weapon they're using to gain the Smite Evil benefits.
Since it's already a house rule to allow a second blade ally, it's trivial to prohibit adding it to the same sword, so I don't see how that hypothetical cheese is a concern at all.
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So personally? I'd just avoid the headache and say it has to be a different type.
RAW it does say that it has to be a different type. The ambiguity is only what those 'types' are. And there really isn't any other possible definition of what those types are other than 'Blade ally', 'Shield ally', and 'Steed ally'.
Also the RAW is explicitly clear that Blade ally only affects one weapon each day.
So the only way to get this to work with Dual Weapon Warrior or other options for two weapon fighting feats is a GM houserule that lets it work with two weapons - probably with restrictions.
So personally? I'd just avoid the headache and say it has to be a different type.RAW it does say that it has to be a different type. The ambiguity is only what those 'types' are. And there really isn't any other possible definition of what those types are other than 'Blade ally', 'Shield ally', and 'Steed ally'.
Also the RAW is explicitly clear that Blade ally only affects one weapon each day.
So the only way to get this to work with Dual Weapon Warrior or other options for two weapon fighting feats is a GM houserule that lets it work with two weapons - probably with restrictions.
That's not ambiguous at all, though, because the types are defined. What's more ambiguous is whether choosing a second type means it can't be the same as the first type.
Just because it affects one weapon doesn't mean the other one can't also affect the same weapon. There's no exclusivity clause present in the ability or the feat, meaning by RAW, if you had two Blade Ally features, they could both affect the same weapon, since both only get to affect one weapon for the day.
That's not very ambiguous either.RAW it does say that it has to be a different type. The ambiguity is only what those 'types' are. And there really isn't any other possible definition of what those types are other than 'Blade ally', 'Shield ally', and 'Steed ally'.That's not ambiguous at all, though, because the types are defined. What's more ambiguous is whether choosing a second type means it can't be the same as the first type.
Choose a second type of divine ally
I will concede that it could be written to be even more clear that it can't be the same type as was chosen initially. Something to the effect of 'Choose a type of divine ally that you don't already have.' But choosing a 'second type' very strongly implies that you can't choose the first type again.
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"Choose a different type of divine ally" would be clear enough, IMO.
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IMO is clear enough too.
There's no other thing to be treated as type but the kind of ally choose:
Your devotion attracts a spirit of your deity's alignment. Once you choose an ally, your choice can't be changed.
The following are divine allies:
Blade Ally: A spirit of battle dwells within your armaments. Select one weapon or handwraps of mighty blows when you make your daily preparations. In your hands, the item gains the effect of a property rune and you also gain the weapon's critical specialization effect. For a champion following the tenets of good, choose disrupting, ghost touch, returning, or shifting. For a champion following the tenets of evil, choose fearsome, returning, or shifting.
Shield Ally: A spirit of protection dwells within your shield. In your hands, the shield's Hardness increases by 2 and its HP and BT increase by half.
Steed Ally: You gain a young animal companion as a mount. Ordinarily, your animal companion is one that has the mount special ability, such as a horse. You can select a different animal companion (GM's discretion), but this ability doesn't grant it the mount special ability.
So if the feat rule were just to give access to any type of ally, even the same type with another object/creature, they simply wouldn't put the word "type" there. So to me in RAW it's cleary not allowed to take 2 blade allies.
But as I said before. IMO I don't think this can create a problem in balance neither I think that's the designer intention to explicitly not allow a two-weapons paladin to have 2 blade allies. Probably he/her simply has not considered this option for champions.
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There is nothing saying explicitly that's a different type, it's ambiguous at least. Even if the most common use for this wording is to refer to a different option.Sorry about my question. But why do you want to have 2 weapons with a paladin? What do you want to do with your build? Do you will take some dedication feat?
I said this because there little benefits to having two weapons in PF2 except do you have some feat or class ability that gives you some reduction in MAP.
2 starknifes ( d6 damage since its the gods favored weapon )
1 Ranged reprisal
2 Dual weapon dedication
4 Dual Thrower
6 Smite Evil
8 Second Ally
Double throw gives 2 attacks at 0 map with smite evil extra damage
And ranged reprisal gives a reaction strike at 15 fts.
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2 starknifes ( d6 damage since its the gods favored weapon )
Doesn't it have to be simple to get that bump. Remind me how you did that again please?
There is nothing saying explicitly that's a different type, it's ambiguous at least. Even if the most common use for this wording is to refer to a different option.Sorry about my question. But why do you want to have 2 weapons with a paladin? What do you want to do with your build? Do you will take some dedication feat?
I said this because there little benefits to having two weapons in PF2 except do you have some feat or class ability that gives you some reduction in MAP.
Because it's cool or fits the character concept? Not every champion needs to use a shield or 2 hander.
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It's not legal by RAW but don't really have a problem with it though it does have the net effect of allowing the Champion from ever having to spend money on a reliable Ranged Weapon or perhaps just one with a different damage type and traits.
A Champion with top-of-the-line Melee and Ranged Weapons who never spends a bent copper on Property Runes will have better Armor and other Magical Items than others in the same price bracket but that's not exactly world-shattering.