The PCs in my megadungeon game last night encountered a male undead (ghost) Cleric 6. They are APL 6 and I used the stats from the Bestiary for the example Ghost (CR7) and added some Cleric abilities to fit the story. One of the biggest things I added to the original source material (based loosely on Lost City of Barakus from Frog God Games) was to put in details that, in life, the ghost had worshipped the same deity as the paladin PC (Abadar).
Recall that Abadar is worshipped by merchants, judges and lawmakers, among others. The paladin, while his alignment is LG, plays as kind of a business owner who campaigns to further the causes of good and justice on a lawless frontier. So, when that player realized his party had just defeated a ghost that may have at one time been a person who also honored deals and negotiations with the same righteous fervor as his character does, a plan began to form.
My players want to "redeem," not "destroy" the ghost. There were no obvious remains on the scene where the battle took place, so they don't yet know how they'd even go about destroying it at all, but the idea they floated amongst themselves while I listened was to somehow reform the ghost, turn him back from Evil to Neutral or Good while also striking an Abadaran bargain with him; the ghost would work with the PCs as a kind of... oracle, or source of minor clerical spells that they can visit with.
Any ideas on how I might engineer this kind of side quest? Like, I get DESTROYING a ghost; find its remains or some totem item and destroy that, or complete some unfinished task for the ghost, in order to untether the spirit from the mortal world for good.
But how do you think 4 PCs could convince a vengeful spirit to A. not be evil anymore, and B. agree to a contract wherein it works with the party to deliver lore, exposition, or the occasional Blood Biography or Contact Entity II spell? The only lore I have to go off of from the source material is that this creature haunts a collection of rooms referred to as his "sanctum" and I embellished it a bit to suggest that at one time these chambers were a shrine to Abadar, long since unhallowed and no longer serving as a conduit for Divine power.
Any hints, suggestions or advice is welcome. If you need more info just ask. Thanks in advance.
Build (rebuild?) a temple around it, and task Clerics to keep the Ghost inline. They could do this with game mechanics like Command Undead, but you could absolutely flavor it that Ghost is doing it willingly. The morality of making a restless spirit into a servant, rather than putting it to rest, remains in question... dubious, at best.
Give them an NPC that channels spirits, and have said NPC channel the Ghost? Or a Spirit-Binder Wizard's Familiar?
Offer them a way to make the Ghost into a sentient item or weapon. That way they can still abuse it for the occasional spell and answers to riddles unsolved.
Have them perform a ritual where they set up the "seance" in a beige coloured room with a long table, a few clerks and an assortment of plain sandwiches. Then the "ritual" consists of going through a portfolio of "paintings" that show projected Abadarian influence graphs under certain contingencies over then next financial year ... it's a board meeting, make them roleplay a board meeting.
Have you fleshed out any backstory for the ghost yourself?
If note, could he have been murdered by a LE or NE business rival. Putting that right fits within the Paladin's goals both as LG and as a sword of his god. Ghosts, canonically in PF can have other alignments that Evil (based on example ghosts in other published material) so once the vengeance has been enacted, you can mash together some other reason that the ghost can no longer move on but is no longer an evil spirit motivated by revenge - perhaps a beloved daughter or son inherited the family business after the murder but various actions since mean the business is in trouble and the ghost feels an obligation to return the business to the success it had before he passed.
As an Abadarian, the ghost might seek assistance or investment from the PCs in the family business in return for services rendered?
Usually a Ghost forms because the person who died has some unfinished business that prevents them from moving on. Even when you defeat the Ghost it is usually only a temporary measure because they still come back. To get rid of a ghost you don’t destroy it you release it by completing its task.
In this case I would do something like the Ghost was betrayed by a partner he trusted and left to die. The partner took some valuable treasure and used that to found an enterprise where he grew wealthy. The Ghosts heirs on the other hand ended up in poverty. The partner has long since died but the decedents of both the partner and the ghost are still living. To lay the ghost to rest the party has to prove what was done and get the ghosts heirs the inheritance that should be theirs. In doing so they party gains an ally of the ghosts heirs who are now in control of a large business.
Ghosts are evil because they hate the manner in which their lives ended. Acting to keep a ghost locked in an undead state sounds evil to me. Making an agreement/contract with the ghost to a) release it to the afterlife or b) restore it to its original life seems better. That way they can pick up a new cleric ally without having a ghost around.
That last one by marcryser has me intrigued. Making a deal to return this guy to life. This feels like a good way to go.
I had the same feeling as marcryser at first. If the guy used to be a good guy Abadaran adventurer and then got turned into a ghost, permanently locking him into undeath feels more like a punishment than a gift. Since the main PC discussing this strategy is a paladin I feel like this goes against the LG alignment of the character.
To answer Carrauntoohil's question, there wasn't any real backstory on the ghost in the source material. The paladin heard the ghost speak his own name, Basillius, and noted that his ghost clothes seemed old but also vaguely Abadaran in nature, so the player put that together and asked to do a Knowledge: Religion roll while the wizard did a Knowledge: History check to see if they knew this guy after the fight.
The Religion check hit 24 and the History check was a 31, so I said the players remember a local story about a doomed group of adventurers who went into the hills to "fight back against a rising source of corruption" in the hills. The megadungeon is in those hills, so Basillius and his crew must've gone to the megadungeon.
Context clues around the "sanctum" chambers suggest that Basillius tried to repurpose these old rooms into some kind of shrine to Abadar. This all happened over 50 years ago and the adventurers never returned, so perhaps some terrible fate befell Basillius before he could permanently consecrate the place or whatever.
Now, the source material puts the main entrance to the dungeon overlooking a spot called "Fool's Pass," a shortcut through the hills that merchants are scared to take since it is historically plagued by monsters and is perpetually unsafe. Perhaps the unnamed "corruption" Basillius was fighting against was cleaning up Fool's Pass so that merchants could travel freely to the north lands without taking a much longer, and more monetarily taxing, roadway?
So... 1. the PCs should help Basillius clean up, defend and consecrate his shrine in the dungeon, 2. they make a deal with him to return him to actual life, 3. they also pledge (since they've got their own sort of "base" on level 1 of the dungeon, close to the surface where they can monitor the pass below) to help police Fool's Pass for traveling merchants. In exchange, the ghost of Basillius will remain in his "sanctum" for now, help the PCs occasionally, and when he eventually gets a resurrection or whatever will be a mid-level cleric that can act as an ally or even a Cohort to one of the PCs.
I like where this is heading. Thanks for the help so far, any other questions/wrinkles/suggestions are still welcome!
marcryser wrote: Ghosts are evil because they hate the manner in which their lives ended. Acting to keep a ghost locked in an undead state sounds evil to me. Making an agreement/contract with the ghost to a) release it to the afterlife or b) restore it to its original life seems better. That way they can pick up a new cleric ally without having a ghost around. Just as a counter to this, there are non-evil ghosts in the Carrion Crown adventure path.
I mean, the entry for Ghost in the Bestiary straight-up tells us that ghosts are less about stat blocks and more about a story. So I think you can safely put the rules on a shelf for now.
Maybe this ghost started out evil (I assume that's you played him initially). Maybe they can find a way to remind him of who he was in life, to sort of anchor him and bring his memories of the living world up through the fog of undeath. Mementos (or even just the names) of loved ones, a telling of the events that led to his death, etc. A seance would be cool, but ritual-type things imply rules, and Pathfinder has a ton of those. So using something that looks like rules but isn't might be confusing. Still, I'm sure there's a subsystem out there somewhere, if you wanted. Your players seem like the type who would.
Once they find a way to meaningfully communicate with the ghost, the investigation phase is over and the hero phase has begun. Time to revive the poor sap or let him go to his rest.
I think it would be cool to give him some super-potent ghost powers. Like, really tempt the players into keeping him around as a ghost. Sure, you could release the spirit or resurrect him, but whatever boon you reap will be but a conciliation prize compared to having a ghostly oracle at your beck and call. Make that paladin feel like he's earning all his sweet abilities.
Send them on a quest to find a certain item that deeply means something to who this spirit used to be... in this case, a magical light repeating crossbow of deep mahogany rimmed with gold that has a stock carved in the likeness of Abadar’s First Vault... it is Abadar's Vaultbow.
When the party finds it, it is loaded with cold iron, Ghost Touch bolts... if they use the Vaultbow's special ability to convert bolts fired from it into lengths of chain to fire any Ghost Touch ammunition made into chains at the Ghost... a successful hit puts the spirit to rest and awakens the crossbow.
Give it generic sentient item stats with a high enough "casting" stat to cast tje spells you want it to at their lowest level... 1/week or something. Give it a generic, but respectable, bonus in Appraise, Know History, Know Local, Know Nobility, Know Religion, and Sense Motive...
My players are not usually "story" folk. When the fight first ended they immediately searched the area for loot. Finding this ghost's hidden treasure, the player running the paladin asked me if he could make a Knowledge: Religion check to know how to stop the Rejuvenation ability. When I told him he'd have to roleplay it out he looked at me like I'd just kicked his dog.
I figured right then and there they were going to grab the treasure and bolt, as they have done in every room of this dungeon so far, regardless of setting details or story. When they started talking among themselves and the paladin player was the one that said maybe they DON'T take the ghost's treasure my ears perked up.
Not only did they leave the ghost all his treasure, they tidied up a bit, used a Scrivener's Kit to make a well-written note and left a Continual Flame spell on a sconce inside the ghost's secret room so he could read their letter. The missive apologized for the assault and spoke to their intent to return at another time to speak respectfully with the ghost and try to find some way to help him.
I was like "who are you and what have you done with my players." Anyway, that's who I'm dealing with and that's why I came here looking for help in the first place.
I did this same thing once with a ghost who invaded the dreams of the townsfolk (and the PC's once they arrived) in a small village near a lake. She would wreak havoc on the fishing boats by day, and invade dreams by night. Anywho, the PC's arrive in this small village and head to the tavern inn, and then went to sleep that night. Lady Miravella (the ghost) invades their dreams and they see her walking in a straight line on the lake facing in the direction of the Mind Flayer's grotto (they didn't know that yet, and even Lady Miravella doesn't know where the grotto is located even though that's where she was killed, but eventually the PC's figure it out), and they have a somewhat cryptic conversation in this dream, but she tells them that her spirit can't rest until a Mind Flayer nearby is put in the dirt for good because it killed both her and her husband, and the Mind Flayer is planning to kill again.
Anywho, long story short, the PC's kill the Mind Flayer and put her soul at ease but her spirit persisted. She agreed to stop pestering the fishermen, and became an "ally" to the group in a manner of speaking. Lady Miravella wasn't from that area, but she was a highborn lady from a major city, and the Mind Flayer attacked her carriage en route to the small village. So later in the campaign, the PC's went back to her to get some useful info about a BBEG in that major city.
Anywho, that was the long way of saying: redeem/avenge the ghost's reason for "existing in malevolence" and then it has a path to neutrality, or even good.
I have had a Ghost require its old family heirloom be returned to them for the spirit to rest. It was a mithral Longhammer, that the Dwarf had actually grown quite fond of since they had found it. The aforementioned hammer was actually broken when they found it earlier in loot left behind by a 10-headed Hydra, and the Dwarf paid good money to have a nice new haft made for it. Little did he know it was a plot device, and I wasn't going to change that just because he spent money fixing and upgrading it.
The Ghost was super happy about the work that had been done, though. Lol.
Dealing with ghosts? Hopefully your world has the ghostbusters…
It ultimately does depend on the ghost. Both its living personality and life and how it died ultimately. That will influence its goals and its actions or willingness to work together.
Even the nicest, sweetest person that comes back as a ghost because they were murdered will likely want justice in some way. I'm not saying that getting a ghost to forgive a transgressor isn't one possible method of giving it peace... but if the person was really on that level of forgiving, they probably wouldn't have come back as a ghost (at least one with vengeance as a motive). It would have to be a supreme show of asking forgiveness for some action that literally ended someone's life.
Unfortunately, ghosts aren't always the best at giving evidence or being allowed to appear in court and make accusations (I am not saying that a murdered girl's ghost just appearing and pointing at her killer in a crowd wouldn't be effective and would be ignored, but usually their best, quickest option is to kill the offender and find their rest/revenge. And if they did just show up and do that... it really wouldn't be an adventure or encounter for PCs, they'd just be basically bystanders to a scene unless they actually took action to free or allow the ghost to appear).
Plus, the spirit might not even have any actual evidence or even know who killed it. They might have only saw a flash of a colored scarf or maybe they were poisoned and never knew who did it and just suspected as they lay dying and, while killing their target might work, the PCs might actually want to find the actual killer and present evidence (and show proper justice for it) in order to save the ghost's intended target from its wrath.
We obviously know the ghost is evil now, but that's because undead have different morality and goals than most mortals. We don't know how evil the character was in life, what actions they took that might have influenced their death or whether it was caused by another. They might simply be greedy and unwilling to relinquish their hoard/stash/money, in which case, stealing it won't work (they'd be tormented and haunted by nightmares or other hauntings until returned) and only destroying all of it might work (something PCs loooove doing to loot).
If he was betrayed by a partner, then bringing the partner to ruin might work, as would bringing the partner to him to be killed (or possessed and forced to do something with the business).
Maybe he was just plain evil and refused to die and is going to lie about it, claiming he was cheated and that the PCs must recover several items he coveted in life (but he'll say they wore stolen or something). Basically the PCs would be committing crimes (unknowingly) and if they do succeed, the ghost is laid to rest (but the items are destroyed, fade away, or maybe he has the PCs destroy them (completely) in his presence (basically the PCs can't just take them all back when he's gone, at least not easily).
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