Shield of the Mage and Shamans Arcane Enlightment


Rules Questions


so this is a weird combo my player wants to use.

Arcane Enlightment Hex gets him 2 Arcane spells a day.

The Shield of the Mage is an intelligent shield that basically can cast, every round, (randomly) any arcane spells he knows.

So he takes Fly and Haste as his two Arcane spells...and now, the entire party is pretty much permanently Hasted and Flying. Or Fireball and Lightning Bolt and now, since the intelligent shield is casting on its own (without the player having to use an action), they're getting off an 11th AoE damage spell, free, every other round.

This seems a bit overpowered, for the combination of a class ability and a 14k item.

What do folks think about this? And yes, he took a feat/class dip so that his Shaman can use a shield.


Arcane Enlightenment doesn’t give you any Arcane spells. It adds spells to the Shaman (divine) spell list, and explicitly states that they are Divine, not Arcane. So the Shield would do nothing here.


Technically, it says, "cast as divine" but that doesn't mean that they aren't Arcane spells...does it?

Heh, I don't want to just tell the player "no" without some actual rules to lean on.


Xavram5 wrote:

Technically, it says, "cast as divine" but that doesn't mean that they aren't Arcane spells...does it?

Heh, I don't want to just tell the player "no" without some actual rules to lean on.

you could make a RAW argument that prepared spells and spells known don’t have any Arcane or Divine character until they are cast, as RAW only provides “...casts arcane spells from the wizard/sorcerer spell list....” or “...casts divine spells from the shaman spell list....”, in which case for example the Shield of the Mage doesn’t work for any character of any class. But someone should punch you in the face if you do. But in general i would assume that spells on the list of a specific spellcasting feature have the same divine/arcane nature as the spellcasting feature would use when cast, barring language to the contrary. Either way, there’s nothing in Arcane Enlightenment indicating they are added to the spell list as Arcane.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I would go with the idea that the spells are added to the shaman spell list for that shaman and thus are in fact divine.

The Exchange

Xavram5 wrote:

Technically, it says, "cast as divine" but that doesn't mean that they aren't Arcane spells...does it?

Heh, I don't want to just tell the player "no" without some actual rules to lean on.

CRB page 206 wrote:
Spells come in two types: arcane (cast by bards, sorcerers, and wizards) and divine (cast by clerics, druids, and experienced paladins and rangers).

The type of spell (arcane, divine, or psychic) is based on who is casting it. For example, detect magic is divine when cast by a cleric and arcane when cast by a wizard.

When you add a new spell to a class spell list it is cast as the same type as the other spells on that class list unless the ability that added it specifically says otherwise. (For example the wizard arcane discovery Faith Magic lets you cast a single spell as a divine spell.)

Liberty's Edge

It doesn't work, the player is misreading the abilities.

Xavram5 wrote:


The Shield of the Mage is an intelligent shield that basically can cast, every round, (randomly) any arcane spells he knows.

Incorrect.

Shield of the Mage

Quote:
This caster’s shield always has one arcane scroll and knows the same arcane spells as the wielder. When the spell on the scroll is cast, another scroll of a spell the wielder knows randomly manifests to replace it. The shield has no arcane spell failure. The shield can also read magic. It will often debate with its wielder for the most devastating course of action, but does what the wielder commands.

Caster's shield

Quote:

This +1 light wooden shield has a leather strip on the back on which a spellcaster can scribe a single spell as on a scroll. A spell so scribed requires half the normal cost in raw materials. The strip cannot accommodate spells of higher than 3rd level. The strip is reusable.

A random caster’s shield has a 50% chance of having a single medium scroll spell on it. The spell is divine (01–80 on d%) or arcane (81–100). A caster’s shield has a 5% arcane spell failure chance. The price of the shield is modified by the value of the scroll spell if one is currently scribed.

CRB p. 535 wrote:

Read Magic (Sp): An intelligent magic item with this ability can read magical writings and scrolls as if through read magic.

This ability does not allow the magic item to activate scrolls or other items. An intelligent magic item can suppress and resume this ability as a free action.

1) The shield has a scroll of a random 3rd or lower level arcane spell known to the wielder. Not memorized, know, so any spell on his spellbook, cantrips included.

2) It has no Arcane spell failure, but it doesn't cast the spell. The wielder can use the scroll. No arcane spell failure means that the wielder doesn't risk falling when casting an arcane spell.

3) The shield of the Mage works out of know spells. Divine casters prepare spells, don't know them. Diferent mechanich.

4) Good luck getting the spells you want when as a minimum a 5th level wizard with int 13 knows 16 cantrips, 8 1st level spells, 4 second level spells, and 2 third level spells (and hopefully he has way more intelligence and spells).

Xavram5 wrote:
Arcane Enlightment Hex gets him 2 Arcane spells a day.
Arcane Enlightenment (Su): wrote:
The shaman’s native intelligence grants her the ability to tap into arcane lore. The shaman can add a number of spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1) to the list of shaman spells she can prepare. To cast these spells she must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell’s level, but the saving throw DCs of these spells are based on her Wisdom rather than Intelligence. When she casts these spells, they are treated as divine rather than arcane. Each time the shaman gains a level after taking this hex, she can choose to replace one of these spells for a new spell on the wizard/sorcerer spell list.

Lore spirit

1) He doesn't know any arcane spells, they are added to the list of spells he can prepare, but he doesn't know them. Different mechanic.

2) The spells are added to the shaman list, the spells in the shaman list are divine spells. Again, he doesn't know any arcane spell.

Liberty's Edge

David knott 242 wrote:


I would go with the idea that the spells are added to the shaman spell list for that shaman and thus are in fact divine.

You are right, it is sèpecified in the Arcane Enlightenment ability.


Appreciate the in detail response...my player still isn't accepting it but I get what you're saying, so thanks DR!

Liberty's Edge

Xavram5 wrote:
Appreciate the in detail response...my player still isn't accepting it but I get what you're saying, so thanks DR!

What part of the ability he is trying to use he refuse to recognize as a rule?

What part of the description of the Shield?

If after pointing the rules he is misreading he refuses to follow them, it doesn't sound like an honest mistake.


Its the whole Arcane spells, in his Divine list part.

Can lead a horse to water, but cannot slam dunk his head in the trough and drown him...:)

Liberty's Edge

Ultimately what a player does and does not accept isn't the end all, be all. The DM remains the final word on what does and does not work.

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