Hi, folks. I'm building a high-level Shifter for an adventure that's using Automatic Bonus Progression, and I'm looking for relevant or fun magic items for this PC. The challenge I'm having is that I'm trying to find items that will still help out when the character is in wild shape.
As a polymorph effect, all gear melds into the Shifter when he uses wild shape, and only those items that provide a continuous effect or bonus remain effective; anything that needs to be "activated" cannot be used in wild shape. Additionally, since this campaign is using ABP, items that provide static numerical bonuses to AC, saving throws, and ability scores don't exist, so I can't use things like a Cloak of Resistance or Belt of Physical Might.
At the level this PC is at, he can stay wild shaped 23 hours a day, so I'm not looking for things that extend wild shape use. He doesn't use armor, and he relies almost exclusively on his natural weapons.
The two big ticket items I'm debating between are the Belt of Stoneskin and the Ring of Freedom of Movement. I can't afford both of them.
Beyond that, I'm considering the Deliquescent Gloves and Eyes of the Eagle, but these are lower-cost items, and the Eyes especially seem redundant. I'm trying to avoid looking like a Christmas Tree, and I'd like to stay close to the intended lore of the Shifter and not be decked out in shiny steel gauntlets and helmets and such. But I'm also worn out from combing through lists and guides looking for useful items.
Does anybody have any suggestions of useful or fun magic items I should consider? Thanks.
Minor Cloak of Displacement is one of my all time favorites for literally any build.
Ring of Eloquence is the only thing I'm mostly settled on. And then either the Belt of Stoneskin or Ring of Freedom of Movement. After that, I'm wide open.
Minor Cloak of Displacement is one of my all time favorites for literally any build.
Oh, wow. That is a great recommendation. Thanks!
I would recommend getting a Polymorphic Pouch if you plan to use any items. It can save you the hassle of having to shift out, use the item, and then shift back.
I would recommend the Ring of Freedom of Movement tbh. It counters so much and its 24/7.
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I would recommend getting a Polymorphic Pouch if you plan to use any items. It can save you the hassle of having to shift out, use the item, and then shift back.
Good advice, thanks.
I would recommend the Ring of Freedom of Movement tbh. It counters so much and its 24/7.
That's the grown up mature answer, sure, but the belt would help make me look like a carnival strongman with claws, so...
Do Talismans work when wildshaped? You don’t need to activate them, but they ‘trigger’ automatically to give temporary bonuses.
I looked at them, and I would think so. They react when something happens to the wearer, not something the wearer does to activate. Thanks.
Ooh, that's good. It sounds like you're talking about a Lesser Talisman of Life’s Breath?
Dusty rose prism ioun stone is also one to note. Insight bonuses aren't included in ABP.
Thanks for the advice, all. Here's the list I'm going with:
Boots of Striding and Springing
Cloak of Displacement (minor)
Deliquescent Gloves
Grappler's Mask
Lenses of Detection
Potion of Endure Elements (I realize this doesn't fit the criteria I was talking aobut in my original post, but I had some gold to spend...)
Ring of Eloquence
Ring of Freedom of Movement
Talisman of Life's Breath (lesser)
And not a magical item, but I also bought an adamantine heavy pick, because breaking things can be useful.
Insight bonuses aren't included in ABP.
What's the thinking behind that? The rules say pretty clearly, "Items that only grant bonuses to AC, saving throws, and ability scores don’t exist in this variant..."
Insight bonuses aren't included in ABP.What's the thinking behind that? The rules say pretty clearly, "Items that only grant bonuses to AC, saving throws, and ability scores don’t exist in this variant..."
Because ABP bonuses are: Enhancement bonuses to Ability Scores, Weapons, Armor, and Natural Armor, as well as Deflection bonus to AC, and Resistance Bonus to Saving Throws. <---- any other bonus other than these still affect you normally.
So, Insight, Sacred/Profane, Luck, Morale, Trait/Size/Racial, Circumstance, Competence, Alchemical, etc. bonuses still all affect you normally.
The purpose of ABP is to get rid of the "Big 6", so Weapon(s), Armor/Shield, Belt, Ring, Cloak, Amulet, and this gives the PC quite a bit more flexibility when choosing items for these slots. So now a Cloak of Displacement and a Belt of Stoneskin are viable options, because normally if you didn't choose Belt of Physical Perfection +6 and Cloak of Resistance +5, you would be at a disadvantage. ABP's purpose is not to completely supplant all bonus types. The purpose of "items that only grant bonuses to AC, Saving Throws, and Ability Scores don't exist in this variant" rule is in reference to not being able to "double up" with stacking Big 6 bonuses + ABP bonuses to create monster characters. They also disallow Inherent Bonuses to Ability Scores from Wish in ABP play, and it's because you get these bonuses automatically from Legendary Bonuses as a part of ABP-- this eliminates the all-but-mandatory 25,000gp x10-15 Abil Score gold sink that occurs between lvl 17 and 20.
Not sure what build you are going for, but the following was used on a Druid I played to great effect.
If you do get Armor, try to get the "Wild" enhancement on it, I'd also opt for Ironwood.
items to consider:
Beast Talisman
Shifters Headband
Feats to consider
Energized Wild shape
Improved Natural Attack
Natural Spell
So, Insight, Sacred/Profane, Luck, Morale, Trait/Size/Racial, Circumstance, Competence, Alchemical, etc. bonuses still all affect you normally.
Okay, thanks. Is there a rule that specifically states this, or is it just widely assumed because the rules don't specifically omit them?
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Yes. In the Automatic Bonus Progression schedule, these are listed as Enhancement Bonuses to Ability Scores, Natural Armor, Armor/Shield, and Weapons, while there is also a Deflection Bonus to AC, and Resistance bonus to Saves. And once you start getting Legendary Gifts in the late game, you gain Inherent Bonuses to Ability Scores.
BonusesThe entries below describe the bonuses characters gain.
Armor Attunement
The character can attune herself to one suit of armor or one shield in her possession; she can change that attunement once per day. If she selects a normal set of clothing as her armor, it counts as having a starting enhancement bonus of +0. The attuned suit of armor gains a +1 enhancement bonus at 4th level.
At 8th level, she can split her attunement between a suit of armor and a shield, granting each a +1 enhancement bonus.
At 9th level, she can grant a suit of armor or a shield a +2 enhancement bonus (instead of granting each a +1 enhancement bonus).
At 14th level, she can either grant a suit of armor or a shield a +3 enhancement bonus or grant each a +2 enhancement bonus.
At 15th level, she can either grant a suit of armor or a shield a +4 enhancement bonus or grant both a +3 enhancement bonus.
At 17th level, she can either grant a suit of armor or a shield a +5 enhancement bonus or grant one a +4 enhancement bonus and the other a +3 enhancement bonus.
Deflection
The character gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC at 5th level; this bonus increases to +2 at 10th level, to +3 at 16th level, to +4 at 17th level, and to +5 at 18th level.
Legendary Gifts
The character gains three legendary gifts at 19th level and five more at 20th level. (If you’re using the variant with no magic treasure, characters gain seven more legendary gifts when their effective level reaches 21 and eight more when it reaches 22.) Select these legendary gifts from the following list.
Legendary Ability: Gain a +1 inherent bonus to any ability score. You can select this legendary gift multiple times, and it stacks up to +5 in any one ability score.
Legendary Armor: Your enhancement bonus from armor attunement increases by 2. If you are attuned to a suit of armor and a shield, you can either increase both bonuses by 1 or increase one bonus by 2. The enhancement bonus on a single attuned item can’t exceed +5, but you can use the excess to add special abilities to the armor or shield (see Magic Weapons and Armor). You can select this legendary gift multiple times; it stacks up to +10 on any one suit of armor or shield.
Legendary Body: Increase your bonuses from physical prowess to +6/+6/+4. This counts as two legendary gifts.
Legendary Body 2: Increase your bonuses from physical prowess to +6/+6/+6. You must already have legendary body to select this legendary gift.
Legendary Mind: Increase your bonuses from mental prowess to +6/+6/+4. This counts as two legendary gifts.
Legendary Mind 2: Increase your bonuses from mental prowess to +6/+6/+6. You must already have legendary mind to select this legendary gift.
Legendary Shieldmaster: Gain a +5 enhancement bonus from armor attunement for both your armor and your shield. You can select this legendary gift multiple times, choosing a different attuned suit of armor or shield each time.
Legendary Twin Weapons: Gain a +5 enhancement bonus from weapon attunement for two weapons at the same time. This counts as two legendary gifts. You can select this legendary gift multiple times, adding an additional attuned weapon with a +5 enhancement bonus each time.
Legendary Weapon: Your enhancement bonus from weapon attunement increases by 1. If you are attuned to more than one weapon, you can increase only one weapon’s enhancement bonus in this way. The enhancement bonus on a single weapon can’t exceed +5, but you can use the excess to add magic abilities to weapons (see Magic Weapons and Armor, below). You can select this legendary gift multiple times, and it stacks up to +10 for any one weapon.
Mental Prowess
At 6th level, the character chooses one mental ability score (Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma) to gain a permanent +2 enhancement bonus. At 11th level, this bonus increases to +4. At 13th level, the character chooses a second mental ability score to gain a permanent +2 enhancement bonus. At 15th level, the character increases one of these enhancement bonuses by 2. At 17th level, she chooses a third mental ability score to gain a permanent +2 enhancement bonus.
Physical ProwessAt 7th level, the character chooses one physical ability score (Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution) to gain a permanent +2 enhancement bonus. At 12th level, this bonus increases to +4. At 13th level, the character chooses a second physical ability score to gain a permanent +2 enhancement bonus. At 16th level, the character increases one of these enhancement bonuses by 2. At 17th level, she chooses a third physical ability score to gain a permanent +2 enhancement bonus.
ResistanceAt 3rd level, the character gains a +1 resistance bonus on all saving throws. This bonus increases to +2 at 8th level, to +3 at 10th level, to +4 at 13th level, and to +5 at 14th level.
TougheningAt 8th level, the character gains a +1 enhancement bonus to natural armor. This bonus increases to +2 at 13th level, to +3 at 16th level, to +4 at 17th level, and to +5 at 18th level.
Weapon Attunement
The character can attune herself to any one weapon in her possession, and can change that attunement once per day. The attuned weapon gains a +1 enhancement bonus at 4th level. At 8th level, the character can split her attunement between two weapons, granting each a +1 enhancement bonus. At 9th level, she can grant a single weapon a +2 enhancement bonus instead of granting two weapons a +1 enhancement bonus each. At 14th level, she can either grant a single weapon a +3 enhancement bonus or grant two weapons a +2 enhancement bonus each. At 15th level, she can either grant a single weapon a +4 enhancement bonus or grant two weapons a +3 enhancement bonus each. At 17th level, she can either grant a single weapon a +5 enhancement bonus or grant one weapon a +4 enhancement bonus and another weapon a +3 enhancement bonus.
As for Bonuses that Stack, go look at Common Terms Glossary and scroll down to Bonus Types.
BonusBonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.
The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don’t generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works. Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.
All Dodge Bonuses, some circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses stack. But for all other types of bonuses, they do not stack with themselves, only the greater of a bonus applies (i.e. if you had an Enhancement bonus to Natural Armor of +3 and an Enhancement bonus to Natural Armor of +5, this doesn't mean you have Natural Armor +8, it means you have Natural Armor +5 because they overlap each other and only the greater of the two bonuses is used). All the rest of these other bonuses listed on that page stack with each other though because they're all different types of bonuses, so you could have a +4 Alchemical, +1 Insight, +3 Circumstance, +5 Competence, and a +4 Enhancement bonus, and all these would stack to become a 4 + 1 + 3 + 5 + 4 = +17 bonus to <insert whatever>.
Items that only grant bonuses to AC, saving throws, and ability scores don’t exist in this variant, and wish and similar spells never grant inherent bonuses to ability scores. Magic weapons and armor do exist, but grant only special abilities, not enhancement bonuses; calculate their prices with the table.
This rule is what is in question ---^. And the only thing that really affects the PC in terms of what items can provide bonuses is bolded.
So you can pretty much use everything under the sun, unless it provides a static bonus that mirrors what's below, such as Belt of Physical or Mental Perfection +6 Abil Score, or Weapon/Armor/Shield enchantments of +5 to Attack/Dmg/AC, or Ring of Protection with Deflection +5 AC, or Cloak of Resistance +5 Resistance to Saves.
Honestly I was going by a memory of ABP removing resistance/enhancement/deflection/bonus to natural armor items (the big 6) rather than a careful reading of the rules.
What's the thinking behind that? The rules say pretty clearly, "Items that only grant bonuses to AC, saving throws, and ability scores don’t exist in this variant..."
Common sense. Always remember, Pathfinder is written by humans for humans, and not by lawyers for lawyers.
ABP replaces item-based enchancement bonuses (to weapon, armor, natural armor, and ability scores, deflection bonuses, and resistance bonuses with level advancement based ones. That's what ABP does. It may not be explicitly written (in a book that's badly content-edited and where each section was space-restricted), but it's only logical that the only bonuses not aviable on items are the bonuses granted by ABP.
Feats to consider
Energized Wild shape
Improved Natural Attack
Only for aspects where the major form sucks. For the good forms (i.e. those with pounce), those two feats are terrible.
Actually good feats to consider:
Chimeric Master for pounce in flying form.
Planar Wild Shape for DR, resistances, and Smite Evil.
Mutated Shape and Chaos Reigns for additional primary natural attacks.
Demonic Style for better pounce.
Weapon Shift for reach.
Depending on how the GM rules the ABP-natural weapons-interaction, Greater Weapon Shift might be very good.
items to consider:
Beast Talisman
Shifters Headband
Beast Talisman is completely worthless for a Shifter. Shifter's Headband depends on how the GM rules it regarding the interaction with ABP. It might not exist, or cost full price. If it costs just the price that exceeds that of a respective Headband of Inspired Wisdom, i.e. 1.5k for the +4 version, it would indeed a good option for (non-Weretouched) Shifter, in case you need to switch from a ground-based for to a flying form.