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I had a situation come up where a player was using versatile performance (string instruments) and used it to pretend they were asleep.
They argued that the game mechanics allowed them to do it, and the PHB does not really give any flavor text as to how the ability works. I was wondering if there was any clarification of how the ability is supposed to work?
It's not that he was using Perform:String to pretend to be asleep. He was using Bluff to pretend to be asleep. But since he has Versatile Performance:String he's able to use his ranks and bonuses in Perform:String in place of his ranks and bonuses in Bluff.
So yes, your player was right.
Though as Llelomania said: I wouldn't give them a Masterwork Instrument bonus with this check.
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I had a situation come up where a player was using versatile performance (string instruments) and used it to pretend they were asleep.
"" (CRB pg. 38)
You seem to have a misunderstanding how Versatile Performance (VP) works*. It doesn't change what check is made, or how it is made. It only changes the bonus used. That's it. There is no actual performance involved. What the character made is not a perform check with the effect of the bluf skill, but rather a bluff check with the numerical bonus of their perform skill instead of their bonus in the bluff skill. In-universe, there is zero discernible difference between using VP and making a check via the skill's regular bonus.
*) Others in this thread, too...
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I had a situation come up where a player was using versatile performance (string instruments) and used it to pretend they were asleep."" (CRB pg. 38)
You seem to have a misunderstanding how Versatile Performance (VP) works*. It doesn't change what check is made, or how it is made. It only changes the bonus used. That's it. There is no actual performance involved. What the character made is not a perform check with the effect of the bluf skill, but rather a bluff check with the numerical bonus of their perform skill instead of their bonus in the bluff skill. In-universe, there is zero discernible difference between using VP and making a check via the skill's regular bonus.
*) Others in this thread, too...
RAW you don't make a Performance and don't need to use the instruments at all (but then you don't benefit from the instruments bonuses if any), but from a role-playing perspective is a good thing to justify how you get skill a to work as skill b.
With the exception of dance all the skills versatile performance subsite for are interaction skills. Part of a great performance is the performer’s ability to interact with their audience. A good performer learns to read the audience and adjust their performance to the audience. If done properly it creates an emotional response in the audience. This ability is what separates the good performer from the truly great performers.
Bards by definition are supposed to be great performers. Their performances are beyond what a mundane artist can ever hope to achieve. Versatile performance is the ability to apply this aspect of performing to other things. When you use versatile performance you are not using the perform skill you are applying the ability to manipulate people in a different way. I am no musician of any sort and have the artistic ability of a turnip so have no clue how this would be actually done, but I can at least see the possibility of it working. So when you use perform string in place of bluff you are using the ability to read and manipulate the audience you learned from playing the harp to manipulate people into believing your lies.
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just none of the RAW bluff check options really fit with what the player is doing. He’s acting, not “saying” something he wants someone to believe.
You can say a lot with a look, with a whistful sigh, or with the gentle squeeze of a hand.
The word "say" doesn't inherently mean "speak words" ... well no more than the word "bluff" anyway.
I have to agree with MrCharisma non-verbal communication is still communications. When someone asks you a questions and you shake your head no, that converges the answer just as well as if you had spoken the word No.
I mean, some of them are super obvious.
Perform:Dance gives you bonuses on Acrobatics and Fly. Pretty straight forward, a dancer is nimble and has great control over how their body moves through space. The real question here is why non-bards don't get some bonus from their Perform:Dance skill.
Likewise Perform:Act gives a bonus on Bluff and Disguise. Acting IS Bluffing, soo ... do I need to explain this one? Also assuming ye-olde actors were also on charge of costuming this is a pretty obvious parallel as well.
Essentially it's saying that bards learn these skills as part of their craft. Their ability to perform has relevant applicable uses on and off the stage.
Now to this particular case: Perform:String.
Perform:String gives bonuses to Bluff and Diplomacy. This one isn't as obvious as the two mentioned above, and I'm sure you could flavour it a few different ways, here are two:
1. You perform in a chamber orchestra for the ruling elite. Being in close proximity to a more refined class has taught you more than just the basics of ettiquette, you have learned the subtle art of manipulation, what they would call "Diplomacy". You've been hobnobbing so long that they almost respect you as one of their own , but however long you spend with these people you know deep down you're not one of them. It's a facade, a ruse, a fugazi. You've been bluffing your way through this charade since day 1.
2. As a street busker you know your next meal relies on people liking you as much as your songs. Your ability to fit in with any crowd is legendary - or it would be if people realised you fit in with their rivals as well as them. Ingraciating yourself into a group requores a social finesse not learned in prep-schools or at fine dinners, you must be quick-witted and open to new ideas, you must hold back as much as you give. You can bluff your way into any street-party or tavern, and you can talk the tavern-owner into a free meal any night of the week - some weeks it's been every night when the crowds weren't gathering to hear you play. You know the art of the deal is about compromise and tact, but sometimes it's about promising what you can't deliver and taking the down-payment before getting out of dodge.
So I went into more detail than i probably needed to there, but you can see that it's using skills aquired on the job to your best advantage. Some of the Versatile Performance options are more obviously applicable than others, but as TR_Merc said this IS a game - the devs wanted every major Perform option to be applicable. Some they nailed, some need a little imagination.
Remember this is an Extraordinary Ability, so it's not some magical version of "My Strings make people believe what I say", it's simply a different set of skills used to perform tasks.
As Mr Charisma said... the correlation between most of them is really quite obvious... honestly Perform (strings) and Perform (keyboard) are the only two that arn’t obvious... all the rest are pretty clear how they are tied together...
Acting is comprised of bluffing and disguises
Comedy (especially slapstick comedy) knows that a well timed lie is just as important as a thinly veiled threat... and knowing how to do both can only make your routines more effective.
Dancing is an acrobatic art, and what is flight but dancing on the wind?
Oratory is all about recitation, the art of speaking well and clear, memorization of countless proverbs poems and other works of literature... from all of that an orator can quite often in a pinch play the part of a diplomat. Furthermore knowing how to read the crowd is a must for nearly any performer, doubly so for those who perform in spoken word.
Percussion itself can easily be utilized to control certain animals or to strike fear in a foe with a simple drum beat... unlike many of the others, this performance can actually be performed as a substitute for the linked skills rather than simply utilizing knowledge from the art.
Singing historically has been a form of story telling, and most performers learn to weave their own tales in song rather than simply perform known songs. As a result, a talented performer is well versed in the art of bluffing, as well as reading their audience so they know when and how to alter a song for the greatest outcome.
Wind instruments have been used to command beasts for thousands of years, so it comes as no surprise that one might use perform (wind) in place of handle animal... as for diplomacy... I once heard an instructor liken playing a wind instrument to an elaborate diplomatic exchange with the wind...
As to how strings equates to diplomacy and bluff and keyboard to diplomacy and intimidate... I honestly couldn’t tell you, because those two pairing make no sense... and I say this as an actual Violinist...
Wind instruments have been used to command beasts for thousands of years, so it comes as no surprise that one might use perform (wind) in place of handle animal...
This is one of my favourite things about the world. Animals love music. It's like magic ...
WILD MUSTANGS LOVE THE TROMBONE
There are many many more examples, go find your favourite ^_^
EDIT: THIS ONE'S FOR YOU CHELL
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As to how strings equates to diplomacy and bluff and keyboard to diplomacy and intimidate... I honestly couldn’t tell you, because those two pairing make no sense... and I say this as an actual Violinist...
With plucked instruments Sleight of hand seem more reasonable. Hand coordination is important for bowed instruments too, so it seems reasonable skill for all stringed instruments.
To tune a stringed musical instrument or a keyboard one you need some technical savvy and to be capable of recognizing if it is off-key, so Disable device and Perception are other possible skills.
The problem is that probably, when the skill where decided, the developed has chosen beforehand a small pool of non too vital skills and limited the linked skill to those.
Probably perception was deemed too powerful, and Disable device as stepping on the rogue toes.
I say that as someone that has seen a tuner tuning a piano, and had spoken a few times with experts about the maintenance of some ancient violin, not as a real expert, so I can be way off.
The Bluff Skill has the following uses (my emphasis CAPITALISED):
Deceive or Lie
If you use Bluff to fool someone, with a successful check you convince your opponent that WHAT YOU ARE SAYING is true. Bluff checks are modified depending upon the believability of the lie.
Feign Harmlessness
It’s often useful to attempt to convince your enemies you are no threat to them.
Check: You attempt to convince your target you are harmless THROUGH YOUR ACTIONS AND POSTURE.
This is closer to the o.p.'s query but all you succeed in doing is for the enemy to think you are 'harmless'. If they are still going to murder you they might just do this last at best.
To me this is a perform act skill roll not a bluff check.
I mean ... that looks pretty much exactly like what the OP described to me.
As to how strings equates to diplomacy and bluff and keyboard to diplomacy and intimidate... I honestly couldn’t tell you, because those two pairing make no sense... and I say this as an actual Violinist...With plucked instruments Sleight of hand seem more reasonable. Hand coordination is important for bowed instruments too, so it seems reasonable skill for all stringed instruments.
To tune a stringed musical instrument or a keyboard one you need some technical savvy and to be capable of recognizing if it is off-key, so Disable device and Perception are other possible skills.
The problem is that probably, when the skill where decided, the developed has chosen beforehand a small pool of non too vital skills and limited the linked skill to those.
Probably perception was deemed too powerful, and Disable device as stepping on the rogue toes.I say that as someone that has seen a tuner tuning a piano, and had spoken a few times with experts about the maintenance of some ancient violin, not as a real expert, so I can be way off.
Oh I can agree 100% that sleight of hand would have been a better fit for strings... and disable device certainly would have fit well with keyboard... and perception does fit for both as an acquired skill from a keen ear picking out off tune cords and keys... But yes, it does seem as if they were working with a preselected small pool of skills... which unfortunately lead to a few questionable pairings...
I am indeed not sure it should be a Bluff check (as I think a Perception check makes more sense for the observer than a Sense Motive check), but it's definitely not Perform: Act. There's no relation to any other acting, nor is it something you'd learn as part of learning acting.
Seriously, once simple glance at the description of the perform skill tells you how little sense that makes: "You are skilled at one form of entertainment" (CRB pg. 103)
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A slender, flamboyantly dressed fellow slouches on a stool, leaning precatiously backwards against the wall. A toothpick dangles from his lips, his eyes are closed, and he mindlessly strums a ukulele sitting in his lap.
As soon as you lay eyes on him, his hand relaxes, strumming an odd chord, followed by silence.
Bam! That man is asleep, and convinced you of it with his stringed instrument performance...
i did acting, and pretending to sleep (or pretending to be dead) was a very common thing to do and practice.
Natural looking sleep, or conveying to the audience that your character is sleeping?
I mean, we aren't talking movie/TV acting here, we're talking stage acting, which is not at all about appearing natural (because natural, subtle expressions are lost to anyone beyond the first couple rows, at best).
Why are we talking about which skill to use? No other skill even pretends to be applicable in this situation.
If we're talking about what you might allow then great, be creative. But if we're talking a about the default skill to use here it's definitely Bluff.
Personally I'd allow Perform:Act, but it doesn't have any rules text supporting it that I can see.
Disguise ... well at the very leaset takes 1d3×10 minutes, which makes it a pretty unappealing option. And what - you're disguised as a sleeping version of yourself?
Rather than telling us that it can't be Bluff, does anyone have a good reason that it SHOULD be another skill? One based in rules-text I mean, because I can't see anything that comes close to Bluff for this example. And I also can't see a good reason that Bluff wouldn't be applicable.