Shooting is a ranged attach, not a melee attack. Even if you are right next to a target, you are making a ranged attack, not a melee attack. Therefore, if there are no other friendlies engaged with the enemy you are next to and shooting at, there is no -4 penalty because there are no friendlies engaged in melee with the target.
Shooting is a ranged attach, not a melee attack. Even if you are right next to a target, you are making a ranged attack, not a melee attack. Therefore, if there are no other friendlies engaged with the enemy you are next to and shooting at, there is no -4 penalty because there are no friendlies engaged in melee with the target.But the Enemy is engaged with you.
So he counts as been in combat with someone friendly to you.
Namely yourself.The rules have stated in a number of places that you are considered friendly to yourself and an ally of yourself.
Thus spells and effects that affect those friendly to you or allied to you affect you as well.
As always with that FAQ regarding being your own ally, please be sure to include the full details. eg. "...when it makes sense." The reason for the penalty for shooting into melee is to be sure you don't hit an ally by mistake. There is no chance you are going to shoot yourself (outside of possibly crit fumble rules and a nat 1). I would not apply the -4 penalty in this case.
Your penalty in this scenario is taking the AoO. No other penalty needs to be applied.
I would argue that an enemy swinging at you and potentially at your ranged weapon is enough to make sense that your aim is thrown off by a -4.
I would argue that an enemy swinging at you and potentially at your ranged weapon is enough to make sense that your aim is thrown off by a -4.
That would make sense if you also took a -4 penalty for being next to a melee enemy while shooting at a enemy not in melee combat. But there is no such rule for that. So it comes down to an "are you your own ally" in this context.
As a house rule you could adopt the combat maneuvers rule
If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver.
On the other hand if you are shooting someone you are in combat with then you are moving to avoid been hit (otherwise you would be flat footed) and they are moving in relation to you at a really high rate.
Your AC does not go down against ranged attacks against you when you are not in melee either. So moving about to dodge either melee or ranged attacks isn't the reason for the penalty.
People are moving about whether they are 5' from you, or 100' from you. The -4 penalty applies regardless of range when when they are melee'ing with one of your allies. So the moving at a really high rate in relation to you doesn't really hold up.
As for trying to avoid shooting someone else. Isn't that where Cover comes into play.
And that is when you have to shoot past your guy and stack on top of the penalty for shooting in to combat.
The cover penalty kicks in whether it is because there is an ally between you and your target, or another enemy between you and your target. Or a turned over table between you and the target. So this one doesn't have anything to do with trying to not hit something in between you (as surely you don't really care if you hit a different enemy).
My understanding was that at least part of the problem for shooting into combat is simply people in combat are moving far less predictably.
Less predictably then the guy who knows you have a bow, and is running towards you trying to get into melee range while also still trying to throw off your aim? Less predicatably then the enemy archer who keeps moving so that your melee guys can't get next to him?
Note also that the ranged attacks into melee also includes this rule
If your target (or the part of your target you’re aiming at, if it’s a big target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you can avoid the –4 penalty, even if the creature you’re aiming at is engaged in melee with a friendly character.
So if the target is big enough such that you can take a shot at it that is a distance of at least 10' away from your ally, then the penalty goes away. So it seems pretty clear to me the penalty is the "avoid hitting your ally" penalty.
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Lol... some of the "logic" presented in this thread makes my brain bleed.
No. You do not take the -4 to your attack.
Your penalty price for shooting a ranged weapon whilst engaged in melee is the AoO they get against you. That's it. And even that can be negated by a feat.
All this "your own ally" $#!+... GTFOH...
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It's not logic. It's how pathfinder writes the rules.
You asked the question, 3 out of 4 responses say RAW mean no penalty.
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You are your own ally, and you are friendly to yourself.
The "own ally" FAQ doesn't apply to the term "friendly character", as it's, well a different term. With the word "friendly" not applying to one self per general definition, and no rule to the contrary, the -4 penalty does not get triggered by the shooter/thrower.
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Shooting into melee doesn't use the term ally..
Shooting or Throwing into a Melee
If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other.
That could just be a real chill homie. Doesn't even have to be an ally, just a friendly bloke from down the lane
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Shooting into melee doesn't use the term ally..
Shooting or Throwing into a Melee
If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other.That could just be a real chill homie. Doesn't even have to be an ally, just a friendly bloke from down the lane
The penalty is because you don't want to shoot the "friendly character"... you do not normally risk shooting yourself, so the penalty doesn't apply. Even if you are "friendly" to yourself, and insist on counting as your own ally... the penalty still doesn't apply because you still don't normally risk shooting yourself.
Outside of the AoO that may or may not happen, I literally don't see any reason there should be any penalties applied to the shot. Crossbows can be fired prone. Everything looks kosher.
You haven't actually made a case based on RAW.
But neither have you.
While I disagree with the above notion that "ally" and "friendly character" have a meaningful distinction in this area, you continue to ignore the most important part of the "are you your own ally" FAQ. You have not provided any evidence to suggest why the given RAI reason is incorrect, and thus differs, from the RAW. So while I don't think there is anything that objectively says the two match, the best evidence you have that they differ is the very subjective FAQ. eg, the answer cannot be derived from an appeal to the FAQ, since both sides point to the FAQ as to why they are "right". (That FAQ sees more abuse and twisting of meaning than any other FAQ).