| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
If you take away the orders and their niche, what is the druid but a primal cleric without bonus heals? Or a primal witch without the familiar? Or a primal sorcerer with less spells/day?
If you took away a champion's reaction, what is the champion but a fighter with lower proficency? If you took away Devise A Stratagem, what is the investigator, but a rogue without Sneak Attack? If you took away compositions, what is a bard but an occult sorcerer without bloodline abilities?
Thank goodness that multiclass dedications don't exist.
That's a really bad argument since Multiclass dedications are heavily powered down.
Devise a stratagem won't let you use int, Sneak attack doesn't go beyond 1d6 extra damage,...
Meanwhile Beastmaster is powered up.
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
I mean, yes, you can kind of make yourself look better than a level 1 animal order druid if your level 6 character spends all their feats into Beastmaster.
Then again, by the time most people will have picked it up, Druid will have had Heal Animal for 5 more levels, and Wild Empathy for 11 more (assuming you're trying to copy the Druid). Also, they could have picked up more focus points in the background, that can easily be spent on more heal animal, or more versatility if that's not necessary.
I really don't think this is an issue.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
That's a really bad argument since Multiclass dedications are heavily powered down.
Devise a stratagem won't let you use int, Sneak attack doesn't go beyond 1d6 extra damage,...
Meanwhile Beastmaster is powered up.
It's a bad argument because they're all radically different things. An animal druid at level one gets a young animal companion and heal animal. Another class going in through to beastmaster gets a young animal companion at level 2.
By level 4, the druid can pick up a dedication (including beastmaster for another animal companion) or any other class feat and their mature animal companion. Our hypothetical cleric can choose between getting another animal companion or a mature animal companion by now. Dedications let you get the parts you want to play around with, but they're never actually letting you break anything power-wise.
If "niche protection" is no one else gets the tools of other classes, then multiclass dedications look really silly. Niche protection is "Rogues being the best for sneak attack, rangers getting the most from their Edges, Barbarians having the most powerful rages." An animal companion isn't a niche case when at the launch already two classes had access to them and interacted with them in different ways. Having a dedication that was more open (without the thematic strings) let characters get their toys while losing out on multiclass access and all that it brings with it.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm jumping on the boat a little late, so I've probably missed some points that've been made, so I apologize if I retread ground.
It seems like a major derp (in my eyes at least) is missing what the actual niche of the Ranger is now, which is "See that guy? **** that guy!". You get this because of their core feature, Hunt Prey, and all feats that interact with it. Animal companion? Helps screw that more, Monster Hunter family of feats? Learn about/abuse in a non-damage way the guy you're after. All the different weapon style feats? Warden spells? 75% of the Ranger's feats involve picking one thing out of a crowd, and murderizing it ASAP while focusing on nothing else. If anything, the archetype that steps on these toes in the Assassin, but that involves sneaking up on a dude, something the Ranger doesn't need to do (although it helps). As to all these other discussions about what class can do what, I've missed some points made but I agree with what AnimatedPaper and Arachnofiend have said about the beastmaster, druid, and ranger circle of "my pet bonks things!" and going about it in different ways.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, I was actually very in favor of the understanding of the Ranger as a character that sets a target and then focuses on them. It works to give them a particular niche relative to the other martials; it works well with their woodsman vibes, since it matches what you'd expect from a committed hunter; it lets them nail the feel of sniper in tandem with precision and a bow or crossbow; the monster knowledge stuff even helps them capture the 'I know all about that animal' thing by improving the action economy of their knowledge recalls.
Then if a half druid is what you need, you can just use your class feats to work that back in manually.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
That's a really bad argument since Multiclass dedications are heavily powered down.
Devise a stratagem won't let you use int, Sneak attack doesn't go beyond 1d6 extra damage,...
Meanwhile Beastmaster is powered up.
It's a bad argument because they're all radically different things. An animal druid at level one gets a young animal companion and heal animal. Another class going in through to beastmaster gets a young animal companion at level 2.
By level 4, the druid can pick up a dedication (including beastmaster for another animal companion) or any other class feat and their mature animal companion. Our hypothetical cleric can choose between getting another animal companion or a mature animal companion by now. Dedications let you get the parts you want to play around with, but they're never actually letting you break anything power-wise.
If "niche protection" is no one else gets the tools of other classes, then multiclass dedications look really silly. Niche protection is "Rogues being the best for sneak attack, rangers getting the most from their Edges, Barbarians having the most powerful rages." An animal companion isn't a niche case when at the launch already two classes had access to them and interacted with them in different ways. Having a dedication that was more open (without the thematic strings) let characters get their toys while losing out on multiclass access and all that it brings with it.
3 Classes, actually, since Paladins can also get an Animal Companion via their Steed Ally class feature.
I'd like to add another voice to the "ranger is a focus fire class first and a beastmaster second" crowd. The animal companion is very nice for flanking and extra damage, but my ranger is primarily about the twin takedowns and not getting the most out of the bird.