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Ok, so the Busker ability at 9th level, Inventive Juggler (Ex):
At 9th level, a busker masters unconventionally dangerous juggling techniques. While maintaining this stunt, the busker can use a thrown weapon (even an improvised one) to threaten spaces as though he were using a reach weapon. At 12th level and every 3 levels thereafter, the busker threatens squares up to 10 feet farther away with thrown weapons.
If I'm reading this correctly, they threaten everything at 10' at 9th level. And threaten everything from 10-20' at 12th. And everything 10=30' at 15th. And finally everything from 10-40' at 18th.
So what happens when you combine this with Lunge, Longarm, and other threat range abilities... most notably "whirlwind attack"?
I am able to make a MELEE attack against everything I THREATEN. How is that done with thrown weapons? I mean, here I am, out at 50' (on offense, 45' defensively). Do I roll MELEE attacks for all my thrown attack weapons?
I know this is obviously broken and poorly written. Is there any help for the eager who see this as the "ultimate combat patrol" ability? Also, must you combine it with quick draw to keep drawing out enough ranged weapons to make this work?
I mean, even as a ranged threating attack, patrolling 45' means a 19x19 square area (361-9=352) of movement that you could strike into. And that's just the combat reflexes where you use your dex to hit 10 people coming at you... what are you still juggling at that point to keep it up? it's a Bardic SU, so it's magical... do the weapons return because you're juggling them off people's faces?
It's poorly written and worded, as to how you combine it with things like whirlwind attack. Only melee weapons have threat ranges typically. This makes thrown weapons have a threat range. Which means when combined with "anything within threat range" you get to use it? So can you attack 352 "adjacent" enemies in a single turn?
And then what happens when the Two Handed Thrower feat gets involved? "If you also have the Quick Draw feat, you can throw two-handed weapons at your full normal rate of attacks." Now you're throwing 350 2H Tetsubos...
And I'm not 100% on the whole "whirlwind attack" with reach weapons and threats with natural attacks... can you combine the two in a single round? Ie. Bite or claw 5' and poke people 10' with a longspear in the same whirlwind attack? You threaten everyone within 10' (5' with natural attacks such as bite and IUC; 10' with spear... and then add in longarm for 15', lunge for 20'... and that's just normal with melee attacks, but pretty clear - it's either 10-20' or it's within 20', but different attack rolls based on weapon used to threaten).
The craziness of 50' threat range with thrown weapons, but doing melee attacks with them is a bit odd.
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PS. I probably should start a new thread, but the 15th level ability is likewise broken... If I use it against the armor someone is wearing, is that a touch attack? If it's magic, does it get a save? Nothing in it says "unattended" objects, just objects.
Impossible Sleight of Hand (Su): - HAHA! I just stole your armor and there's nothing you can do about it! HAHA! I just recalled your armor and am now wearing it! Good luck getting it back!
Oh, you killed me? Well, have an 8000 pound gravestone fall out of nowhere and crush you, centered on my square... enjoy the retributive strike! Hope you can move 10-20 feet as a free action... because that's a BIG stone!
Lich phylactery: now in a private dimension... kill Lich... now is stuck there until I die? I can live with that!
Love the thought of these abilities, but they're quite "broken" as written and need a LOT of further explanation.
The way I read Busker, is you only threaten *with that* thrown weapon and can make attacks of opportunity with it (even though normally AoOs are melee-weapons only). Still really powerful, but not something you can combine with lunge and all that other stuff that only applies to melee attacks.
On the hammerspace thing, it empties into your own space when you die, not adjacent; unless you've been killed by the Songbird of Doom the killer is safe. 8000 pounds of stone isn't as bulky as you think (a 4' cube would do it easy).
If you can steal a suit of armor while someone else is wearing it you deserve to be able to keep it IMO. I don't think that ability lets you target attended objects any more than other effects, you'll need to steal it first.
If you can find and take a lich phylactery and kill its lich, you can probably break the phylactery. Adding an option to store it and the lich permanently in your personal hammerspace doesn't seem a big deal.
The inventive juggler reach ability does add questions. Mind you, even if you get whirlwind attack how often are you going to be surrounded by 352 enemies that you want to annoy with a single thrown weapon attack each? You're a bard without inspire courage, even tetsubos from you don't hit that hard.
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I am able to make a MELEE attack against everything I THREATEN.
No, it's the other way round: You THREATEN everything you can make a melee attack against.
This ability does not change anything about how to use a thrown weapon, it merely allows you to use your thrown weapons for mechanics that require threatening, like attacks of opportunity or flanking.
Other abilities, like Whirlwind Attack, are completely unaffected, since they require melee attacks and have nothing to do with threatening.
If you want to "Threaten Everything", learn Mage Hand, Improved Unarmed Strike and the Magic Trick (Mage Hand) for Thrown Punches.
Quickdraw + Blinkback Belt should help with juggling... juggling metamagic rods, using Shikigami Manipulation?
And...
It takes "at least" 3,000 pounds of stone to craft a Stone Golem, and they are Large... I understand there is significant waste when carving, but 8,000 pounds of stone still is enough for TWO SIZE LARGE GOLEMS...
So yes, at least around tables I happen to be running, if you happen to be storing a 4 ton ACME anvil in nature's pocket due to the Busker's Impossible Sleight of Hand ability... it is absolutely going to squish anyone under a size large footprint upon your death...
Because magic. Lol. 15+ level Bard magics, to be exact. Hilarious, even in death. The Busker Bard always gets the last laugh...
Oh, I was just going off the construction requirements of a Stone Golem...
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I do think that a high level Bard throwing hammers as attacks of opportunity can be quite fun. Before your throw, just make sure to always yell "STOP! HAMMER TIME!"
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I am able to make a MELEE attack against everything I THREATEN.No, it's the other way round: You THREATEN everything you can make a melee attack against.
This ability does not change anything about how to use a thrown weapon, it merely allows you to use your thrown weapons for mechanics that require threatening, like attacks of opportunity or flanking.
Other abilities, like Whirlwind Attack, are completely unaffected, since they require melee attacks and have nothing to do with threatening.
If you want to "Threaten Everything", learn Mage Hand, Improved Unarmed Strike and the Magic Trick (Mage Hand) for Thrown Punches.
You didn't read whirlwind attack... it's NOT "you can make a melee attack against all opponents you threaten"; it's actually within REACH (not threaten). Not "you threaten everything you can make a melee attack against" as you said; whirlwind attack doesn't say a thing about threat ranges. So, since you treat your juggled items as melee weapons with REACH of up to 40 feet, whirlwind lets you somehow do a melee attack against everything within REACH, 40-50' (as stated with lunge and longarm).
The Busker ability DOES let you threaten out to 40ish feet. With ranged weapons, not melee weapons. But that is because they are being treated as REACH (melee) weapons with that range. Which is a "specific beats general" rule break. It's kind of like the feats that let you threaten with a bow... except that (snap shot) says "threaten" and not "reach"... whereas the Busker ability says nothing about "threat" range (because that is derivative of reach (melee) weapons).
Try to read my response again. I can assure you I made no mistakes, so read it until you get it.
So how well would this work with a weapon that has the Trip property, Relentless Shot, and Improved/Greater Trip...? Would you even need Relentless Shot with the Busker's ability to threaten via Performance?
Man, I kinda want someone to play a busker in a game I run.
But one attack against a ton of enemies is going to annoy rather than be truly threatening.
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It reminds me of the blistering feint/battle poi/weapon shift/Distracting Cloak:cloak trick thing; except you don't get to be a behemoth hippo wearing a cape.
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So, you can make AoOs at a big range.
This sounds like it’s best use would be shutting down casters.
I suppose if you had a decent dex bonus and won initiative then you could tear into an approaching enemy. Making a bunch of attacks (at your highest bonus).
It would probably work best if you used AoOs to make combat manoeuvres or had that feat to Vital Strike with AoOs.
I was thinking something like the Akyls or Throwing Shield... something with both a range and the Trip weapon property.
If you picked up Relentless Shot, you would still threaten everyone you trip, even if you end your Performance.
Between that and Greater Trip's AoO... should be able to make pretty good use of such an ability.
Ultimately, though, to get the distance you want... you are talking pretty late level shenanigans being available. Threatening a bunch of squares with thrown weapons is a freaking waste of a Bard. They should be buffing their party, Inspiring Courage alone with no additional investment is likely much more effective, efficient, and practical than attempting to trip people that walk into some enormous threatened area. At level, the trip attempt is likely to fail, anyways.