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Party composition: Level 9, Cleric with Good and Heal domains, Fighter (Shielded archetype), Alchemist/Master Chymist, Aether Kineticist.
The party is going to be crossing through a swamp. The alchemist and kineticist can fly so both of them may be flying as they go through the swamp. They are chasing after a cult and it's leader. My plan is for the party to come upon a battle scene, where there are dead cultists and dead creatures that inhabit the marsh. I could use lizardfolk but this party would just wipe them out and wouldn't be threatened. I'm going to use marsh giants since marsh giants are more likely to really put a scare into them, especially with the curse ability. So, while they are checking out the battle scene, the remaining marsh giants, 2 or 3 in number, are going to attack. I'm having a challenge figuring out how they are going to be able to sneak up on the party though. If the party sees them coming, the aether kineticist and the alchemist can do a lot of damage at range and the giants won't get much of a chance to attack before they are destroyed. I'm not very good at tactics, so I could really use some suggestions.
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The marsh giants might be playing dead on the battle scene. They might come up thru a river or pool or from behind a waterfall. They can conjure fog clouds to cover them during an open approach. If the swamp is naturally misty at the time that may help stealth/cover their approach and discourage the fliers from getting up where they'd lose line of sight.
They're actually not terrible at throwing rocks if it comes to a ranged battle.
How about. The party comes across the aftermath of a sizeable battle between lizardfolk and the cultists across a small channel in the swamp. There are 15-20 bodies in total spread across a 100 foot square. When the party arrives there are few animals and vermin feasting on the remains. Unbeknownst to the party some marsh giants have already had their fill and are resting nearby and are concealed.
Assuming the party investigates and starts to drive away the vermin then the marsh giants will approach by swimming underwater and attack the closest character. Once cover is broken they will cast fog cloud and will retreat underwater.
In setting up the terrain consider and islands of firm ground, scrub that can be used to hide, plenty of water channels and of course quicksand. The water will be muddy and opaque and all the land is likely to be difficult terrain.
If the PCs are suitably distracted by something else, they're less likely to have flying scouts up to spot the giants.
For example: there are lots of dead bodies in the water. That's food, that is. That'll bring predators and carrion eaters. So add some vultures and a couple of giant crocodiles or anacondas or an otyugh. The vultures are just colour and the crocodiles a mere speed bump to keep the PCs busy while the giants sneak up.
And / or: one of the lizardmen / cultists / etc is still alive and a possible target for interrogation. But he speaks a language known only to the Alchemist, so he has to come down to earth. Or maybe there's a scroll with useful information in such a language. And so on.
I would probably have some Giant Stirges flying around to keep people distracted...
The Marsh Giants would be hidden underwater with reed snorkels like the Robin Hood cartoon. They would cast their fog as cover when they stand, pulling rocks from the bottom of the bog to throw from the concealment of their fog. You could even have these be the Marsh Giant clan's champions, and throw 2-5 levels of Barbarian or Fighter on them...
Essentially, a ring of fog would appear with a clearing centered on the party... the Marsh Giants just inside the fog, so they can throw rocks out, but the party cannot return fire very well.
Then, I would have a band of Merrows spring up around the party from nearby water. The ones close enough try to grapple and drag the party into the water, those out of melee range throw javelins.
There are still Giant Stirges flying around...
QUICKSAND!!!
The trick is to set the terrain in your favor... narrow passages of visibly walkable land with water on either side... patches of quicksand, both openly visible and hidden... lots and lots of questionable bog terrain that is, at the very least, "difficult terrain", if not water of unknown depths with a layer of algae floating on it... who knows?
Regardless of the route they take, your ambush works because there is always water within X number of squares from litrrally any square of solid ground. You are drawing the map, you can make it so there is always whatever you want exactly with range of whatever you want...
Merrows have a speed of 40ft, so make sure there is always water within 20-30 feet of every square of solid ground on your map.
Fill the air with bugs, poisonous gases, and flying nonsense to harass those with flight. Maybe the duration of their precious magical flight will expire before the Marsh Giants pop up.
How do feel about putting the Aerial Creature simple template on the Leech Swarm?
I didn't include the 1D6 shock damage because I don't think "swarm" is a natural attack or metal weapon...
Aerial Leech Swarm
CR 5 (w/ template)
XP 1,600 (w/ template)
N Diminutive vermin ( aquatic, swarm, air)
Init +4; Senses blindsight 30 ft.; darkvision 60'
Perception +0
DEFENSE
AC 18, touch 18, flat-footed 14 (+4 Dex, +4 size)
hp 39 (6d8+12)
Fort +7, Ref +6, Will +2
DR 3/-
Resist electricity 15
Immune mind-affecting effects, swarm traits, weapon damage
Weaknesses susceptible to salt (see giant leech)
OFFENSE
Speed 5 ft., swim 30 ft., fly 30' (perfect)
Melee swarm (2d6 plus poison)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Special Attacks blood drain, distraction (DC 15)
STATISTICS
Str 1, Dex 18, Con 15, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 2
Base Atk +4; CMB —; CMD —
Skills Stealth +16 (+24 in swamps), Swim +12; Racial Modifiers +8 Stealth in swamps, uses Dexterity to modify Swim checks
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Blood Drain (Ex)
Any living creature that begins its turn with a leech swarm in its space is drained of its blood and takes 1d3 points of Str and Con damage.
Poison (Ex)
Swarm—injury; save Fort DC 15; frequency 1/round for 2 rounds; effect 1d4 Dexterity drain; cure 1 save.
ECOLOGY
Environment temperate or warm marshes
Organization solitary, pair, or infestation (3–6 swarms)
Treasure none
This horrifying cloud of ravenous, blood-draining parasites eschews the stealth of a lone leech’s methods in favor of swift and merciless feeding.
Aerial Creature
This template can be applied only to a non-outsider with none of the subtypes that follow: air, cold, earth, fire, or water. An aerial creature’s CR increases by 1 only if the base creature has 5 or more HD.
Rebuild Rules
• Type The creature gains the air subtype.
• Senses The creature gains darkvision 60 ft.
• Defensive Abilities The creature gains DR and resistance to electricity as noted on the table below (DR 3/-, electricity resistance 15)
• Speed The creature gains a fly speed equal to its highest speed with perfect maneuverability (maximum fly speed of 10 feet per HD)
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A good place to start when designing challenging, interesting and fair encounters is to consider a generic party's Plan A and counter it.
If some standard PC's got to do whatever they wanted, how would the fight go down?
Someone(s) tough or strong form a line out front.
Someone(s) with lots of ranged options hang back and shoot/cast/whatever.
Someone(s) opportunistic would slink around to set up some kind of position.
So break that up. Make them go to Plan B. How about it's raining or foggy, so long-ranged combat is difficult? Wind could make flight less reliable.
For the map, you could use standard Difficult Terrain--knee-high water and tall reeds--or Very Difficult Terrain--waist-high water and saw grass--or even like a floating peat bog, where the ground is sort of solid but might give way if the PC's aren't careful. A real floating peat bog is probably more dangerous than a giant in most cases.
Maybe the giants create cover/a hiding spot and open with a volley ofrocks, then slip under the water to close in? Or maybe the PC's ranged options aren't quite as effective in this situation as the giant's rocks, so they have to choose: exchange fire with the brutes or get in the water and close with them?
A swamp fight should limit mobility and make setting up any kind of formation difficult, I think. That really captures the "stinking, festering marshlands" vibe in terms of mechanics.
I've always wanted to run an encounter with Marsh Giants, but very seldom seem to be in a marsh. I really like the flavour of these big boys. Have fun.
Remember canopy - like from a mangrove forrest - to give the giants consealment/partial cover from above.
Water gives improved cover if waist deep and total cover if submerged.
The giants could snipe with thrown rocks from the water. Throw a rock and then duck down to get another and enjoy total cover in the process.
My tactics for the giants, assuming there are two would be to have one swim submerged near to the nearest PC on the ground wholst the other finds a nice safe spot with plenty of rocks. The one near the PC casts and holds bestow curse , -4 to rolls variant. Then he erupts from the water strikes with the curse and attempts to pull the PC into the water. Once in the water, the giant should have a very significant advantage over the PC and could either melee or grapple and drown the character. The other giant acts as cover and keeps the other characters from assisting.
If ome of the PCs manages to assist the one in melee then the other giant will join the melee.
Once the first character is finished they can repeat if one or more characters cannot be airborne. If the giants suffer significant damage then they retreat by swimming submerged.
I've just looked at the numbers and, assuming:
It is the fighter or the cleric that gets snatched
They are wearing medium or heavy armour (can take firm footing underwater but big armour check penalty)
They are small or medium sized
They did not invest in the swim skill
They get caught flat footed
The curse hits them
Then the PC is extremely unlikely to avoid being grappled and positioned out of their depth in water (say 5' deep so waist deep for the giant). They are unlikely to make a swim skill check and have virtually no chance of breaking the grapple and being able to take a breath. They will probably be drowned in about 10 rounds as the slams are not likely to kill the PC first.
The encounter becomes a race to save the captured party member and drive off the Marsh Giants before it is too late.
If the giant starts being attacked they can move deeper, submerging and taking total cover from the surface of the water. Their high CON score and later start should enable them to win any breath holding contest. They can also move whilst grappling underwater with total cover. Two rounds of movement would mean they are 40' away from where the party think the giant is.
The player's best chance is probably to not fight and to conserve their breath. They could try bluffing being dead and see if the stupid giant lets them go.
It's rather a question of how deep the water is. A marsh is by definition very shallow, so you'd need a river or lake at least 7' deep to hide a giant at all. The bottom might well be just a thick layer of mud so anyone in armour would sink into it, but a giant isn't going to be moving through that.
Rock throwing assumes the presence of rocks, which is again less likely in a marsh. I'd give them the ability to throw mud that does minimal damage but blinds and hampers the target.
Not a problem Zagig, either throwing a rock or summoning a fog cloud is a standard action. Giants don't generally get full attacks with rocks.
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Not a problem Zagig, either throwing a rock or summoning a fog cloud is a standard action. Giants don't generally get full attacks with rocks.
My apologies for not being clear. The giant gets to stand and throw on its surprise round, then throw and crouch on its first round. Basically, it only gets to crouch every other round, meaning the kineticist could probably wipe it out quickly.
Unless the kineticist is the one grappled. We have discovered that the kineticist is in real trouble in a grapple situation, so I guess the augury spells would have the marsh giants target her first. I hate to seem like I'm picking on someone though.
It is the fighter or the cleric that gets snatched
The fighter has a 31 CMD and the cleric a 24 CMD. It would be hard to get a grapple on either one in the first place.
Hi Zagig
Hopefully by now you should have enough ideas to develop an interesting encounter.
A large encounter area with many items of interest, i.e. the dead combatants that will draw the party's attention and potentially split them apart.
A set of weak/insignificant opponents to distract the party (and the players) from the true threat, i.e. the low CR scavengers
Terrain that provides a genuine challenge for movement and one where the enemy has a distinct homefield advantage
A method for the enemy to approaching unseen, i.e. deeper water channels running through the swamp.
A set of battle tactics that will challenge the players, i.e. a drowning and fantastic cover for the enemy
An escape route for the enemy should the battle turn against them.
I wouldn't add additional surprises like the exploding/poisonous gas clouds. I think the one giant drowning a character and the other running interference is probably enough. That is a CR10 encounter, throw in the low CR scavengers and you're probably up to CR11 and have a budget of 12800XP to play with.
Not a problem Zagig, either throwing a rock or summoning a fog cloud is a standard action. Giants don't generally get full attacks with rocks.My apologies for not being clear. The giant gets to stand and throw on its surprise round, then throw and crouch on its first round. Basically, it only gets to crouch every other round, meaning the kineticist could probably wipe it out quickly.
Unless the kineticist is the one grappled. We have discovered that the kineticist is in real trouble in a grapple situation, so I guess the augury spells would have the marsh giants target her first. I hate to seem like I'm picking on someone though.
It is the fighter or the cleric that gets snatchedThe fighter has a 31 CMD and the cleric a 24 CMD. It would be hard to get a grapple on either one in the first place.
I can see where you are coming from with the crouch and stand aspect. Try instead, to focus on the cover/sniping aspect. The giant has +13 to stealth in swamps and over a decent distance the range penalties add up.
I would pick the character who happens to be closest, that way you are not using metaknowledge. Whilst there is some argument that the Augury spell could be used, its casting time of 1 minute means you have to have the players engaged on a nearly empty combat map for 10+ rounds and that might make them suspicious.
WRT to the CMD, if they are flat footed then they do not gain their Dex bonuses and with the giant's CMB of 18 then the odds are better than even for the Fighter to be grappled and very high for the Cleric. In the event it fails the giant could always attack with the gaff or retreat to the safety of the water.
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Hi Zagig
Hopefully by now you should have enough ideas to develop an interesting encounter.
A large encounter area with many items of interest, i.e. the dead combatants that will draw the party's attention and potentially split them apart.
A set of weak/insignificant opponents to distract the party (and the players) from the true threat, i.e. the low CR scavengers
Terrain that provides a genuine challenge for movement and one where the enemy has a distinct homefield advantage
A method for the enemy to approaching unseen, i.e. deeper water channels running through the swamp.
A set of battle tactics that will challenge the players, i.e. a drowning and fantastic cover for the enemy
An escape route for the enemy should the battle turn against them.
I wouldn't add additional surprises like the exploding/poisonous gas clouds. I think the one giant drowning a character and the other running interference is probably enough. That is a CR10 encounter, throw in the low CR scavengers and you're probably up to CR11 and have a budget of 12800XP to play with.
Thank you. I always spend a lot of time building encounters because I'm not good at tactics and I need to research so many rules.
I'm going to start with a battle scene of 9 dead cultists and about 24 dead lizardfolk. There should be a channel of water 4 feet deep (a deep bog) near the battle site for 1 giant to hide in. 120 feet in the opposite direction, hiding in another deep bog, will be another giant. 3 lizardfolk stalkers (Rgr2) are also hiding about 100 feet away. As the PCs are checking the battle site, the giant in the water has to act in a surprise round in order to grapple against flat footed AC. However, as soon as he goes, he makes enough noise for the rock throwers and lizardfolk to also go on the surprise round.
Now the entire island is in dim light so the longbows and rocks won't hit as often but neither will the PCs. Once the giant grapples whomever is closest on the surprise round, he uses his first round to take his opponent back into the water. The dim light will allow the rock thrower and lizardfolk to attack and then attempt Stealth checks at a -20 penalty but a bonus for distance.
The grappler needs to make a grapple check each round and then can Swim 20 feet. He gains a +4 AC bonus being underwater.
I'm not sure when to use the fog cloud ability though.
I would make the channel a little deeper and wider so the giant can fully submerge with the deep bog either side. I think the marsh giant should be able to move 20' and reach another 10 from the deeper but really wants to move 10' and reach 10' so they are in the deep bog but can move the grappled character into the deeper water. I would also add more than one channel so there are movement options.
35 dead creatures is a minimum of 35 squares, assuming one per square, as I mentioned earlier I would make the battleground it a 100' square, ie 400 squares, a 200' square would be better still.
I like the Lizardfolk stalkers but instead of making them enemies they couldbe potential allies. Maybe they are the survivors (1-4 hp each) and they are checking over the bodies and so when the party arrives there is a roleplay opportunity along the lines the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
During this RP encounter, 3 marsh giants creep up, one does the drowning, one melees the lizardmen and the other does the rock throwing.
With this scenario, I would allow a little time to pass to RP the introductions and to start searching the cultists/checking the lizardmen (maybe include a few stabilised ones) before introducing the marsh giants, which should start together at the edge ofthe map.
If the party is smart, they might heal some of the lizardmen, who will help with the encounter. If they are murder hobos, they will make it that much harder by attacking the lizardmen.
EDIT: The fog cloud should be used by the rock thrower to block the ranged party members vision from any melee. The grappler can move into the water to gain cover but, as you previously identified, a giant on the land in melee is a sitting duck for the kineticist.
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Thank you Hugo Rune!! I love what you have offered me. Thank you so much. I think I do have enough to make this a memorable encounter tonight.
35 dead creatures is a minimum of 35 squares, assuming one per square, as I mentioned earlier I would make the battleground it a 100' square, ie 400 squares, a 200' square would be better stil.
Now I just need a 200' square swamp map that I can use in Owlbear Rodeo.
No worries, it was fun.
You may want to think about the RP side. Why did the cultists and lizardfolk fight?
Did any cultists escape, how many?
What clues are left on the cultists? Any significant possessions etc
Do the lizardfolk have a village nearby? Can the party rest there?
Are the Marsh giants part of a local tribe? If so what is the relationship between the giants and the lizardfolk? Is there a side adventure to drive the tribe away.
Can the lizardfolk act as guides through the swamp?
Is there a boat or raft available?
For drawing the map, you may want to use Excel. Set the cells to a square size and then use a letter code for each type of sub-terrain. On a second worksheet, also sized as squares, set the font size as small as possible. Write a formula to copy the cell contents from the corresponding cell on the first workshert and use conditional formatting formula to change the cell colour depending on the letter code.
Print out the map and place it on a cork board, use coloured pins to track the movements of each participant.
If you are using hidden features, such as quicksand, you may want two different coloured maps, one revealing the quicksand as a separate colour.
Please post how the encounter goes.
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You may want to think about the RP side. Why did the cultists and lizardfolk fight?
Did any cultists escape, how many?
What clues are left on the cultists? Any significant possessions etc
Do the lizardfolk have a village nearby? Can the party rest there?
Are the Marsh giants part of a local tribe? If so what is the relationship between the giants and the lizardfolk? Is there a side adventure to drive the tribe away.
Can the lizardfolk act as guides through the swamp?
Is there a boat or raft available?
I'm adapting the City of Golden Death module to my own campaign world. I've been planting little things here and there since the party finished Crypt of the Everflame. This is going to end up being the final adventure of the campaign as one of my players is leaving. In fact, we are playing online instead of in person so that he can play and finish the campaign.
So, I know the answers to most of those questions. I will consider the lizardfolk to marsh giant relationship for tonight although it probably won't come up. Players always surprise you though.
One other thing I'm going to add is poison. There is a lake nearby filled with poisonous water (the Whispering Lake in the module). Both the marsh giants and lizardfolk have developed an immunity over many years of evolution. However, this means that their natural weapons are now laced with this poison, Waters of the Whispering River. The official material says its a contact poison but I changed it to an ingested or injury poison as it's pretty deadly already.
Hopefully, tomorrow I can let you know how it went.
You may want to think about the RP side. Why did the cultists and lizardfolk fight?
Did any cultists escape, how many?
What clues are left on the cultists? Any significant possessions etc
Do the lizardfolk have a village nearby? Can the party rest there?
Are the Marsh giants part of a local tribe? If so what is the relationship between the giants and the lizardfolk? Is there a side adventure to drive the tribe away.
Can the lizardfolk act as guides through the swamp?
Is there a boat or raft available?
I'm adapting the City of Golden Death module to my own campaign world. I've been planting little things here and there since the party finished Crypt of the Everflame. This is going to end up being the final adventure of the campaign as one of my players is leaving. In fact, we are playing online instead of in person so that he can play and finish the campaign.
So, I know the answers to most of those questions. I will consider the lizardfolk to marsh giant relationship for tonight although it probably won't come up. Players always surprise you though.
One other thing I'm going to add is poison. There is a lake nearby filled with poisonous water (the Whispering Lake in the module). Both the marsh giants and lizardfolk have developed an immunity over many years of evolution. However, this means that their natural weapons are now laced with this poison, Waters of the Whispering River. The official material says its a contact poison but I changed it to an ingested or injury poison as it's pretty deadly already.
Hopefully, tomorrow I can let you know how it went.
I hope your final session is epic. One thing I find helps is keeping a crib sheet of the different movement and other terrain modifiers as a character can move through several terrain types in a single turn. I've also seen and used jumping as a means of getting around.
I think Mudfoot made a reasonable point about the availability of rocks, but swamps can contain fossilised trees. It might be worth reflavouring the rocks as lumps of fossilised tree.
I like the suggestion of hampering mud balls. It's a dank murky swamp, give them a random roll on what they pull up to throw
1d6
1-rock (normal damage)
2-handful of muck (as tanglefoot bag)
3-old stump (one die type less, but breaks apart into hindering terrain in adjacent squares)
4-angry alligator (two die types less, but now there is an irate alligator on you!)
5-leech swarm
6-old hubcap (only 1d4 damage, but has vorpal quality!) *that's a joke...maybe*
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Okay, here's what happened about 24 hours ago.
I had the 3 lizardfolk approach the party. The Berserker couldn't hide hardly at all so he approached openly with the 2 stalkers hidden. The party was more than willing to talk and, after a bit of talking about the cultists, the lizardfolk began collecting their dead while the party searched the cultists for gear.
Unfortunately, here's where things went wrong, although it was only due to dumb luck. The only PC who got near the water was the alchemist, who is the only PC who has a weapon, bombs, he can use while grappled.
One of the giants surprised the party, grappled the alchemist and pulled him into the water. The other two giants started sniping and throwing rocks, hitting the fighter and the cleric. Now, as I say, the alchemist was able to use his bombs even in that water and grappled. He knew not to use fire bombs so he used cold bombs instead. He would have eventually defeated the giant no matter what. However, with two critical hits on the alchemist's turn the giant was toast on the second round of combat. The giant didn't get to much other than just pull the alchemist into the water before it was dead.
With that out of the picture, the other two giants, 120 feet away to throw rocks and Stealth each round, didn't last long. One of the lizardfolk stalkers actually did the kill shot on the second giant before it got to run. The third giant tried to run, but the party had enough ranged attacks to kill it before it got away.
All in all, it was a fun encounter for me and I think they all enjoyed it. If the giant had grappled anyone but the alchemist, it would have been much more dangerous. Oh well, that's how the cookie crumbles sometimes.
I like the suggestion of hampering mud balls. It's a dank murky swamp, give them a random roll on what they pull up to throw
Good idea. I could have used that last night. I just had them throw fossilized logs, broken trees and stumps.