Hi,
i was thinking about making a Paladin of Shelyn, wielding a glaive.
The idea is to be the tank of the group, but to do so by tripping enemies left and right by using a glaive. Of course that means that will need a lot of feats and attributes (e.g. INT13 for combat expertise/improved trip)
One issue is that reach also means i am a bit in trouble when the enemy is right next to me and, of couse, the lack of defense from missing a shield.
To mitigate the reach problem, i figured i could either take "weapon trick: close sweep/heft bash" or "Bladed Brush". Which is more viable and are there other options?
Are there any pole-arm specific defensive feats i could chose? (i am aware of dodge of armor focus)
Is this viable at all?
Armor spikes for the up close and personal stuffs.
Dipping Warrior Poet Samurai and Scaled Fist Monk might be an option... depending on your definition of "tank".
Arrow Champion Swashbuckler isn't a terrible dip for a Bladed Brush build.
You could just focus more on Lay on Hands to make up for your lower AC.
As for the "problem" with reach weapons, it comes up quite a bit less than you'd think; I'd be more concerned about wanting an above average Dex and Int on a paladin.
Shield brace would let you get a shield again... alternatively you can take unhindering shield for a buckler and build into upsetting shield style for some fun making enemies who get too close regret it... either option would give you a shield bash option in close range as well as bump up your AC.
You might get some use out of the Shielded Staff style feat chain.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Shielded Staff Style, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: While in Shielded Staff Style, if you hit a target with a shielded staff, you can attempt either a bull rush, disarm, sunder, or trip combat maneuver check as an immediate action. You lose your shield bonus until the start of your next turn if you attempt this combat maneuver.
I don't know about you, but I like the ability to perform a combat maneuver as part of my attack of opportunity, even if it is just once and costs me a swift action next round.
Crusader Cleric
1. Weapon Focus Glaive
1. Bladed Brush
Scaled Fist UnMonk
2. Improved Unarmed Strike
2. Combat Reflexes
Warrior Poet Samurai (Order of the Star)
3. Weapon Finesse
3. Slashing Grace
Hospitaler Paladin
4.
5. Crusader's Flurry
Can shift your grip to reduce reach, dex-to-damage, Charisma to AC and saves, plus you have Flurry of Glaives... I'm sure it can be further refined with a little effort...
Another means of mitigating the reach problem is to use spiked armor or a cestus or something.
Combat reflexes, dirty fighting, improved trip & greater trip are the basic feats to plan for as a tripper. If you go for bladed brush as well you probably have no other feats.
that’s six feats before you can use that ability without triggering an attack of opportunity on a class with no bonus feats, although i suppose triggering aoo’s isn’t a big issue when you have reach, so maybe skip Improved Trip and you can do it with 4? Dex 15 is also painful when you want Str/Cha/Con (but don’t need Int with Dirty Fighting).
And? I am just offering options. Its up to the player how they want to make those options work. Don't fall into the trap that makes you think you need a score higher than 15 or 16 when you start play. A Paladin gets more than enough built in ways to boost their effectiveness.
Hi,
i was thinking about making a Paladin of Shelyn, wielding a glaive.
The idea is to be the tank of the group, but to do so by tripping enemies left and right by using a glaive. Of course that means that will need a lot of feats and attributes (e.g. INT13 for combat expertise/improved trip)
One issue is that reach also means i am a bit in trouble when the enemy is right next to me and, of couse, the lack of defense from missing a shield.
To mitigate the reach problem, i figured i could either take "weapon trick: close sweep/heft bash" or "Bladed Brush". Which is more viable and are there other options?
Are there any pole-arm specific defensive feats i could chose? (i am aware of dodge of armor focus)
Is this viable at all?
So Reach Tactics.
If you trip an enemy without Improved Trip you provoke an AoO from the enemy you're tripping ... but they can only take that AoO if they can reach you. Using a reach weapon means most medium-sized creatures can't hit you so you don't care about provoking. This means that for 90% of the enemies you trip you won't be getting this benefit from Improved Trip.
The other advantage of Improved Trip is the +2 to your CMB when tripping, which is pretty good. The problem is it's only while tripping. You could swap this for Weapon Focus - it's only +1 but it works on all attack rolls including Trip, Disarm and Sunder attempts with your Glaive. It's a smaller bonus but it'll apply to way more attacks. It's also only 1 feat instead of 2 (which is important on a Paladin).
If you really want to go for Improved Trip I'd take Dirty Fighting so you can skip the INT prerequisite, of if you really want Combat Expertise take a look at UNSANCTIONED KNOWLEDGE - it gives more of a benefit for that 13 INT.
While we're talking about stats - DEX. You only need 12. If you're planning on enlarging yourself (which is great with a reach weapon) you might want to get to 14 DEX, but in my experience it's excedingly rare to get more than 2 Attacks of Opportunity (AoOs) in a round. It's glorious when it happens, but it's not that often. Also enemies don't know how many AoOs you have, so as soon as you make 2 they should be on their toes (and carry a potion of Cat's Grace for when you really need more AoOs).
Regarding Reach Tactics, Bladed Brush isn't bad, but you could also handle it just by wearing Armour Spikes or a Gauntlet. The chances of actually needing them are pretty slim.
For your defences, don't worry about a shield. You could spend feats on it, but between Full Plate, a Ring of Protection and an Amulet of Natural Armour your AC should be more than respectable. On top of that you have Lay on Hands (LoH). The best feat you can take (has to be at level 1) is FEY FOUNDLING. Even without this you'll have more hitpoints than you know what to do with, but with it you're the best tanking class in the game (that and Divine Grace ... and Mercies ... and immunities). Eventually you should look for some BRACERS OF THE MERCIFUL KNIGHT, which will basically double your daily healing from LoH.
Finally, if you need more healing take the HOSPITALER archetype. You lose your regular channel (which uses LoH) and instead gain a separate channel pool (3+CHA/day). You heal less damage with it, but you don't care because 99% of the time you're not going to use them to heal, you're going to use a MEDITATION CRYSTAL (which is a form of CHANNEL FOCUS) to convert your channels into more LoH. A level 4 Paladin with 16 CHA and Fey Foundling can use LoH 5 times per day for 2d6+4HP (total ~55HP/day), if they're Hospitaler with Meditation Crystal they can LoH 11 times per day (~121HP/day). The downside is that you lose out on smites, and you lose Aura of Justice (probably the most powerful offensive biff in the game).
The idea of armor spikes on a paladin of Shelyn offends me. And it would probably offend her too. Spiky armour looks much more appropriate on a Warhammer Chaos Warrior. Or an anti-paladin of Zon-Kuthon, though he'd probably put the spikes on the inside.
I dunno. Once you've been grappled, constricted and swallowed at least one time, you begin to rethink your stance on armor spikes.
It's just highly decorative armour. Do you have any idea how much time it takes to keep all the points on this bas-relief polished? Anyway, people wouldn't get caught on it if they stayed an appropriate polearm length away.
The idea of armor spikes on a paladin of Shelyn offends me. And it would probably offend her too. Spiky armour looks much more appropriate on a Warhammer Chaos Warrior. Or an anti-paladin of Zon-Kuthon, though he'd probably put the spikes on the inside.
It doesn't have to be big chunky spikes.
(I quite like the middle one, maybe with a lighter colour metal.)
The spikes could look like beautiful flower petals and other pretty things that might just so happen to be pointy... where is your imagination... although I like your spikes on the inside comment, that is morbidly creative...
Thanks a lot for all the input!
I have to say, i strongly dislike the idea of class dipping from an RP-point of view. While class changes can usually be explained quite well, 1 lvl class dips usually appear to be a litle forced.
The idea of using a buckler with the Glaive, @Chell Raighn mentioned, is really intriguing, but i somehow think that i might need the feats later on.
I think i will go the route, @MrCharisma suggested. Thanks a lot for your time and your thoughts!
One level of brawler waives the 13 int for combat expertise, get's you improved unarmed strike d6 for anyone that gets inside your reach (and unarmed strike doesn't require a hand (can be a knee/elbow/kick) gives you 4 uses of martial flexibility to temporarily have a combat feat you want, (and it's a full BAB, d10 hp, 4 skill point class). A second level isn't bad either as it nets you a bonus feat and a modified flurry of blows.
The idea of armor spikes on a paladin of Shelyn offends me. And it would probably offend her too. Spiky armour looks much more appropriate on a Warhammer Chaos Warrior. Or an anti-paladin of Zon-Kuthon, though he'd probably put the spikes on the inside.It doesn't have to be big chunky spikes.
(I quite like the middle one, maybe with a lighter colour metal.)
The first one looks OK, but the shoulder spikes are more of an inconvenience than a weapon. At the best, they'd protect the neck against a swing. Though I suspect she'd have to be careful not to lift her arm too high or the spike would poke her in the side of the head. There are some blades on the forearms but they point backwards.
The middle one looks the most practical, but not very effective as a weapon. The elbow spikes don't point in a direction that makes them useful, and the nipple spikes(?) are...wut?
The 3rd one has usable elbow spikes, but the rest will just catch on furniture, trees and colleagues. And what's that enormous gap under the pauldrons? Does he keep his sandwiches in there?
VM has the right idea with the flower petals, but that won't come cheap.
Honestly none of them are my favourite either, but the point is you don't have to worship Rovagug or Zon Kuthon to have Armour spikes.