
Seth Phoenix |
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Will PF2e ever implement wordcasting and if so, will it actually get official support rather than being dropped because it isn't as popular? I couldn't help but feel the "Words of Power" system seemed incomplete in 1e and the only support I could find for it was all third party. I do hope wordcasting can get the love it deserves because I feel that modular magic is more fun than traditional Vancian magic any day.

Ravingdork |
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Probably won't happen. As you said, it had almost no support after its initial release in 1E, and has since proved to be rather unpopular. That makes it a very hard sell for a company that needs to be turning a profit in the face of difficult times and formidable competition in an already niche market.

Seth Phoenix |
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Probably won't happen. As you said, it had almost no support after its initial release in 1E, and has since proved to be rather unpopular. That makes it a very hard sell for a company that needs to be turning a profit in the face of difficult times and formidable competition in an already niche market.
That's genuinely sad to think about. I think it really could have come into it's own if given official support, maybe a few new words of power here and there in PF Companions, make up for the lack of some equivalent effect words for some spells. It really could have been great.

AnimatedPaper |

Ravingdork wrote:Probably won't happen. As you said, it had almost no support after its initial release in 1E, and has since proved to be rather unpopular. That makes it a very hard sell for a company that needs to be turning a profit in the face of difficult times and formidable competition in an already niche market.That's genuinely sad to think about. I think it really could have come into it's own if given official support, maybe a few new words of power here and there in PF Companions, make up for the lack of some equivalent effect words for some spells. It really could have been great.
I think that this makes more sense as it’s own class or classes, so as to better integrate with PF2 magic’s system.
The biggest issue is that you are relatively limited in what effects you can make, where new spells can literally be anything. There’s a ton of potential combinations, so I don’t think you’ll get bored and you can retain tactical flexibility, but there is a limit to how many words you want any system to have.
But if it is spun into its own class, I would enjoy seeing it implemented.

The Gleeful Grognard |
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Was it really abandoned or not really created for more than a single variant option in a book?
I thought that nearly all variant options existed exclusively within the book that released them. Regardless of their popularity.
I don't expect we will be getting more Relic rules despite it being a fairly popular option (for instance).

Temperans |
Was it really abandoned or not really created for more than a single variant option in a book?
I thought that nearly all variant options existed exclusively within the book that released them. Regardless of their popularity.
I don't expect we will be getting more Relic rules despite it being a fairly popular option (for instance).
I believe there are a handfull of variant rules that got further support.
Of the top of my head:
Mythic.
Called Shots.
Combat Stamina.
Story Feats.
And, Vehicles (to some extent).
More than half were 1 offs, related to a specific campaign, or trying to make some type of game easier (ex: sanity and horror rules).

Alchemic_Genius |
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I actually would like to see wordcasting support in 2e, and i don't even think it wouls be too hard to make.
The main issue with it in 1e was that word spells had the misfortune of both usually being weaker than equal level spells and also being restricted to fairly basic effects; so prepared casting actually lost versatility for it, while spontaneous casting lost power, and if you wanted to be a flexible blaster, it was better to just b3 a prepared caster.
That said, the way 2e balances magic actually lends itself to wordcasting more. Spell design overall seems to have a more defined formula for spell design, which is important for the success of wordcasting, since wordcasting, for lack of a better term, is basically a build-a-spell workshop toolkit.
For example, we can see that an AoE energy damage blast typically does 2d6/spell if it has no side effects, does a set damage type, and is instantaneous. We can also see that higher level blasts also have a bigger AoE; this would be really easy to just make a feature of the AoE aspect; you get a bigger maximum aoe size for using a bigger spell slot, a 1st level mighy be 15 ft cone, 30 ft line, or 5ft burst, while 3rd level gets you a 60 ft cone, 120 ft line, or 20 ft burst. In this sense, its much easier to make balanced word effects that have equal power to normal casting.
The issue of versatility is easy to solve too; just release new words. The nice part is, because of the variability of wordcasting, you don't need nearly as many new words to keep up.
If secrets of magic doesn't give it to us, I might take a stab at it myself as homebrew

Gaulin |

One of the reasons I'm not super exited about the new casting methods in secrets of magic - I feel they're probably going to be a one and done thing that's going to be seldom used and quickly forgotten. They're probably going to be neat but not used by groups that don't like homebrew or go by pfs rules, sort of like a lot of the gmg options.
That being said, I hope for those who want them, the options are really cool. And I am very much a pessimist when it comes to hoping for things coming in rulebooks so I don't get let down if things aren't exactly as I want them. Paizo has a history of putting things in books I didn't know I wanted anyway!

Castilliano |

I disliked Word Casting in PF1, not because of the concept, but because of its imbalance. Played along one who was pathetic for 6 levels (!) who then nuked the campaign boss w/ some persistent, maximized, touch AC, blah, blah, blah. His Wordcaster could pour all his power into a few of those and do little else all day. (Not that he didn't have other options, but they were tame compared to what normal casters could provide.)
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Ignore that though and let's transfer the concept into PF2. We'd expect the same tight reins on numbers as with all the other classes, with versatility coming at a cost. That would be valuable for triggering Weaknesses or bypassing Immunities/Resistances. So instead of Wording one's own Fireball at the same power, I think we'd end up with abilities akin to spells like Shadow Blast (1d8/level instead of 2d6, though likely with only one save option).
And ultimately, I'd guess there'd be a Vancian-ish limit to power/day so its "battery" compares to the other classes'.
IMO, it'd end up like the Alchemist of casters. Doable, yes, but outshone in most every way unless one really, really likes versatility.
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So which parts of Word magic would one wish?
How much versatility vs. power vs. usage?
I cannot see PF2 allowing top-heavy builds re: spellpower, nor unlimited usage beyond Cantrip level (albeit perhaps w/ AoEs & versatility).
Actually, I might respect a class built around lots of Cantrip-level effects if I could get a ton of versatility out of it. Hmm...

AnimatedPaper |
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That said, the way 2e balances magic actually lends itself to wordcasting more. Spell design overall seems to have a more defined formula for spell design, which is important for the success of wordcasting, since wordcasting, for lack of a better term, is basically a build-a-spell workshop toolkit.
I was thinking along these lines. My first attempt at homebrewing (when I was still learning the PF2 class system) made a go at this kind of basic ability, so I agree it can be done. Personally, I’d like to see it integrated into the cantrip/focus spell system rather than strapped onto the prepared/spontaneous paradigm, which is why I’d rather see it on a new class.
This could be an interesting new flavor for a kineticist style class that focuses on debilitations and status effects, drawing from the occult tradition.

WatersLethe |
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I loved Word Casting in PF1, but one of its major drawbacks was the fact that you had to prepare a list of word combos you would use and have ready to go or your group would murder you. Having a list of spells you'd use is like spontaneous casting with extra steps.
I'd like to see it brought forward, but give some more thought. I see it ideally as feature that could be suplemented with normal spells, but handles generic blasting and straightforward effects better.

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I love word casting and have since it was first introduced in D&D 3.x. That said, I think the only way they could introduce it well into 2nd edition is to create a new class around it.
Ultimately in Pathfinder it wasn't well received and added more complexity thus causing many to just ban it from the table due to lack of understanding. Additionally, the current magic system would not easily mesh with just adding word spells into it.
Adding a new class that casts exclusively with word magic avoids mixing it with current magic and allows for it to be built from the ground up without trying to shoehorn it into an existing system.
Personally, I would LOVE for this to be the next big unique class in 2nd edition. Here's hoping!

Decimus Drake |

I believe there are a handfull of variant rules that got further support.Of the top of my head:
Mythic.
Called Shots.
Combat Stamina.
Story Feats.
And, Vehicles (to some extent).More than half were 1 offs, related to a specific campaign, or trying to make some type of game easier (ex: sanity and horror rules).
I'd add rituals to the list.

Temperans |
Yeah I think word casting is effectively similar to creating your own spell. But constrained to some very basic effects. In this way it can be seen as a precursor to regular magic.
Having said that, the biggest problem in the PF1 version is that it has very weird interactions. Those interactions makes it much harder to know how exactly a spell would work.
It might be easier to design in PF2 given that everything is more constrained. But then the system heavily risk becoming weaker than actual spells.