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All I have to say is that I'm a little disappointed (though not at all surprised) that the sprite has a STR flaw. I really wanted to play a Barbarian or Fighter Sprite. Given how the game balances around having an 18 in your prime stat, that would be be a big detriment.
That said, I'm still looking forward to this book immensely.
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All I have to say is that I'm a little disappointed (though not at all surprised) that the sprite has a STR flaw. I really wanted to play a Barbarian or Fighter Sprite. Given how the game balances around having an 18 in your prime stat, that would be be a big detriment.
That said, I'm still looking forward to this book immensely.
You'll be just fine starting with a 16 in your main stat. It's not ideal but it in no way plays out like a dealbreaker.
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You'll be just fine starting with a 16 in your main stat. It's not ideal but it in no way plays out like a dealbreaker.All I have to say is that I'm a little disappointed (though not at all surprised) that the sprite has a STR flaw. I really wanted to play a Barbarian or Fighter Sprite. Given how the game balances around having an 18 in your prime stat, that would be be a big detriment.
That said, I'm still looking forward to this book immensely.
Voluntary Flaws will allow you to start with an 18 in a score you have a racial penalty in.
:)
Yeah, the voluntary flaw system works really well with the +/+/- ancestries. If you really wanna go full beatstick with your sprite taking a penalty in Int and Cha to get the extra Str boost will work perfectly well.
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Yeah, my first PF2 character (post-playtest) was a gnome giant barbarian and I did the voluntary flaws to get the 18 Str.
The voluntarily flaws rule basically exists to let any ancestry start with an 8 or an 18 in a stat, if they want.
As with any optional rule though, be sure to check with your GM first before making use of Voluntary Flaws.
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You'll be just fine starting with a 16 in your main stat. It's not ideal but it in no way plays out like a dealbreaker.All I have to say is that I'm a little disappointed (though not at all surprised) that the sprite has a STR flaw. I really wanted to play a Barbarian or Fighter Sprite. Given how the game balances around having an 18 in your prime stat, that would be be a big detriment.
That said, I'm still looking forward to this book immensely.
Indeed. If Alice starts at 18 and Ben starts at 16 and both increase at every opportunity, Ben's modifier will be the same as Alice's at levels 5-9 and 15-19. He would only be behind Alice by 1 at levels 1-4, 10-14, and 20. Being behind by 1 at half your levels isn't a huge disadvantage.
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As with any optional rule though, be sure to check with your GM first before making use of Voluntary Flaws.
It's not an optional rule, it is just optional for you to take the flaws, I think.
Indeed. If Alice starts at 18 and Ben starts at 16 and both increase at every opportunity, Ben's modifier will be the same as Alice's at levels 5-9 and 15-19. He would only be behind Alice by 1 at levels 1-4, 10-14, and 20. Being behind by 1 at half your levels isn't a huge disadvantage.You'll be just fine starting with a 16 in your main stat. It's not ideal but it in no way plays out like a dealbreaker.All I have to say is that I'm a little disappointed (though not at all surprised) that the sprite has a STR flaw. I really wanted to play a Barbarian or Fighter Sprite. Given how the game balances around having an 18 in your prime stat, that would be be a big detriment.
That said, I'm still looking forward to this book immensely.
Yes, a lot of people seem to complain about the maths being so tight that a 16 is a horrible unfixable flaw, but my players have seemed to do fine with it.
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Yes, a lot of people seem to complain about the maths being so tight that a 16 is a horrible unfixable flaw, but my players have seemed to do fine with it.
I think a lot of people forget to account for the fact that after 18 increases to abilities are only +1 rather than +2. So the person who starts at 16 is able to partially catch up. On average, Ben's modifier is only 0.5 behind Alice's.
What were the lineages for the Ifrit?
I think a lot of people forget to account for the fact that after 18 increases to abilities are only +1 rather than +2.
I don't think that's it at all: I think it's more the 'every +1 matters' theme of the game. I mean, people generally seek out a Weapon Potency rune as soon as they can so it would seem odd if they aren't on the lookout for other +1 in the game.
Yes, a lot of people seem to complain about the maths being so tight that a 16 is a horrible unfixable flaw, but my players have seemed to do fine with it.
It depends on the DM and game really. The greater the number of level+ creatures you meet, the more important it would be to maxout your attack stat. The more forgiving the game/dm the more forgiving your stats can be.
As with any optional rule though, be sure to check with your GM first before making use of Voluntary Flaws.It's not an optional rule, it is just optional for you to take the flaws, I think.
Sure looks like an optional rule to me. It's set in a sidebar and shares a lot of the same language as many optional rules.
I think a lot of people forget to account for the fact that after 18 increases to abilities are only +1 rather than +2.I don't think that's it at all: I think it's more the 'every +1 matters' theme of the game. I mean, people generally seek out a Weapon Potency rune as soon as they can so it would seem odd if they aren't on the lookout for other +1 in the game.
It's true that -1 isn't insignificant, but that only occurs at half the levels. That doesn't seem like enough to make a character concept go from excellent to entirely unplayable. But, as you say, experiences vary.
Sure looks like an optional rule to me. It's set in a sidebar and shares a lot of the same language as many optional rules.
What others are there? There are VERY few instances of the word optional in the game: there are several Variant Rules but the term optional rules only comes up once.
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Sure looks like an optional rule to me. It's set in a sidebar and shares a lot of the same language as many optional rules.As with any optional rule though, be sure to check with your GM first before making use of Voluntary Flaws.It's not an optional rule, it is just optional for you to take the flaws, I think.
It says "Sometimes, it’s fun to play a character with a major flaw even if you’re not playing an ancestry that imposes one. You can elect to take two additional ability flaws when applying the ability boosts and ability flaws from your ancestry. If you do, you can also apply one additional free ability boost." Nowhere does it say with GM permission.
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I think a lot of people forget to account for the fact that after 18 increases to abilities are only +1 rather than +2.I don't think that's it at all: I think it's more the 'every +1 matters' theme of the game. I mean, people generally seek out a Weapon Potency rune as soon as they can so it would seem odd if they aren't on the lookout for other +1 in the game.
Yes, a lot of people seem to complain about the maths being so tight that a 16 is a horrible unfixable flaw, but my players have seemed to do fine with it.It depends on the DM and game really. The greater the number of level+ creatures you meet, the more important it would be to maxout your attack stat. The more forgiving the game/dm the more forgiving your stats can be.
The big assumption here is that you have one attack stat and you use it enough to need it to be maxed out. There are a lot of builds where this is true, but it is not as universal as it is made out to be. There are a lot of builds better off with 2 16s than one 18 and one 14.
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The big assumption here is that you have one attack stat and you use it enough to need it to be maxed out. There are a lot of builds where this is true, but it is not as universal as it is made out to be. There are a lot of builds better off with 2 16s than one 18 and one 14.
For sure if you are talking about buffers and healers you don't have to have an 18 in your main stat - but you are still wrong not to take it.
As a rule these roles don't warrant a specialist, and should only be taken in large parties. In general terms you are just flat wrong if you care about the mechanical efficiency of a class. Paizo agree which is why they forced us to take one boost in the primary stat of each class.
So I'm just going to assume you are trolling here.
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The big assumption here is that you have one attack stat and you use it enough to need it to be maxed out. There are a lot of builds where this is true, but it is not as universal as it is made out to be. There are a lot of builds better off with 2 16s than one 18 and one 14.For sure if you are talking about buffers and healers you don't have to have an 18 in your main stat - but you are still wrong not to take it.
As a rule these roles don't warrant a specialist, and should only be taken in large parties. In general terms you are just flat wrong if you care about the mechanical efficiency of a class. Paizo agree which is why they forced us to take one boost in the primary stat of each class.
So I'm just going to assume you are trolling here.
About a third the characters I've GMed for have had an 16 in their main stat and have been fine (a barbarian, two sorcerers, and a monk). Out of those, the only one I'd say it was somewhat optimal for was the monk (dragon stance and wanted to have decent AC) None of them felt particularly behind their party members. You should typically shoot for an 18, but a 16 isn't bad.
Edit: This thread has gone a little off rails, though, and we should probably get it back on.
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If your character does more than one thing regularly, there are plenty of builds that can start with two 16s at level one and be fine. I am playing one in Age of Ashes and the character is a lot of fun. In fact, about half of my characters don’t start with an 18 and rarely do they suffer terribly for it.
There are characters that do need it more than others, (barbarian, I am looking at you), but it is not trolling anyone to say that most characters can do quite well with a 16 in a stat that will be used offensively about once a round.
Soooooo, Ganzi? I wanna know about Ganzi. What beautiful games can I play as a scion of the planes of chaos?
Soooooo, Ganzi? I wanna know about Ganzi. What beautiful games can I play as a scion of the planes of chaos?Innate spells (some random), some trained skills and skill feats, and lots about using your tail (or similar body part) to great effect.
Interesting.
Is there a level 17 Ganzi feat?
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Soooooo, Ganzi? I wanna know about Ganzi. What beautiful games can I play as a scion of the planes of chaos?Innate spells (some random), some trained skills and skill feats, and lots about using your tail (or similar body part) to great effect.Interesting.
Is there a level 17 Ganzi feat?
No. Just 3 13th.
Some of the new ancestries/heritages have lvl 17 feats, others do not.
Soooooo, Ganzi? I wanna know about Ganzi. What beautiful games can I play as a scion of the planes of chaos?Innate spells (some random), some trained skills and skill feats, and lots about using your tail (or similar body part) to great effect.Interesting.
Is there a level 17 Ganzi feat?
No. Just 3 13th.
Some of the new ancestries/heritages have lvl 17 feats, others do not.
Am disappoint, but understandable.
Any info on what the coolest level 13 feat is then? I want to be with the most Ganzi that a Ganzi can be :P
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Soooooo, Ganzi? I wanna know about Ganzi. What beautiful games can I play as a scion of the planes of chaos?Innate spells (some random), some trained skills and skill feats, and lots about using your tail (or similar body part) to great effect.Interesting.
Is there a level 17 Ganzi feat?
No. Just 3 13th.
Some of the new ancestries/heritages have lvl 17 feats, others do not.
Am disappoint, but understandable.
Any info on what the coolest level 13 feat is then? I want to be with the most Ganzi that a Ganzi can be :P
In my opinion, the most interesting 13th level feat for Ganzi is Mischievous Tail, the highest level of the Ganzi tail feats. This feat lets you Disarm or Trip creatures with your tail even if your hands are full.