Sleeves of Storage and Quick Bomber

[Intemperiae]

Hello everyone.

I tried searching for my question but found no thread about it while on my investigation through the forums.

In the campaign I am running one of my players considers getting the Quick Bomber feat for his Alchemist. As far as it is written, this would allow him to get out and throw the bomb from pouches, bandoliers and other easy-to-reach pouches with the same action.

But what we were wondering is the following:
As it takes one interact action and a single hand free to get an item out of the sleeves of storage, his Alchemist should be able to get a bomb out of the sleeves and throw it with the same action if he has Quick bomber. Is my understanding correct am I missing something important that would prevent this idea?

When I asked a friend that ran Pathfinder 2e before, he told me that it should not work, as the way a magic item works could not be influenced by a feat. But I found no rule like that in the Core Rule Book. There even is the skill “Trick Magic Items”, so he most likely is wrong.
I know that in the end it should be my decision as GM, but for my first campaign I would like to stay as close to the rules as I can, so that something I overlooked escalates at later levels and ruins the balancing completely.

Thank you all in advance for any insight you could give me.

[Cordell Kintner]

RAW, drawing items from the Sleeves is not the same as drawing a worn item. Items inside an extradimensional space would be considered "stowed", but the sleeves give a quicker way to retrieve items.

Of course, if you are doing a home game you can rule it however you like, but RAW he has to wear them outside the item to use Quick Bomber.

[Intemperiae]

I did not realize that items in the sleeves are considered stowed. My mistake was reading over this part of the sleeves’ item description that says it functions as a bag of holding. This lead to me missing the bag of holding description stating that

Quote:

You can Interact with the bag of holding to stow items…

Because of this I missed the one important word that could have helped me with this. Especially considering that I checked the rules for carrying and using items and felt that the way the sleeves function would rather put the items inside of them in the worn category, as items in the sleeves can be retrieved relatively quickly.

Quote:

A character carries items in three ways: held, worn, and stowed. Held items are in your hands; a character typically has two hands, allowing them to hold an item in each hand or a single two-handed item using both hands. Worn items are tucked into pockets, belt pouches, bandoliers, weapon sheaths, and so forth, and they can be retrieved and returned relatively quickly. Stowed items are in a backpack or a similar container, and they are more difficult to access.

Next time I have to be more careful while checking the rules. And some sleep before posting would have been great as well. This way my first post would not be missing important words that I am now unable to add.

Thank you for your help and have a wonderful day.

[Watery Soup]

Aside from this specific question, though, you are right to worry about weirdness at higher levels.

A bandolier only holds 8 items, so at higher levels an alchemist when an alchemist has >8 Advanced Alchemied items (or a small arsenal of Crafted bombs), RAW they need to choose which 8 of them go in the bandolier.

Allowing alchemists to Quick Draw items from stowage is a very pertinent question.

[shroudb]

Watery Soup wrote:

Aside from this specific question, though, you are right to worry about weirdness at higher levels.

A bandolier only holds 8 items, so at higher levels an alchemist when an alchemist has >8 Advanced Alchemied items (or a small arsenal of Crafted bombs), RAW they need to choose which 8 of them go in the bandolier.

Allowing alchemists to Quick Draw items from stowage is a very pertinent question.

or you have multiple "bandoliers".

i use quotation marks becaus there's no longer a need for "specific" items like a bandolier, you can just say that x, y, z item is "worn" and you are ok by the rules.

for flavor you can say it's a couple of bandoliers though.

[Ravingdork]

What's a bandolier?

;D

[Cordell Kintner]

This is why bandoliers were removed. You simply have everything you need to wear whatever you want. You can carry 100 bombs in various pockets if you could support the bulk.

[graystone]

Cordell Kintner wrote:

This is why bandoliers were removed. You simply have everything you need to wear whatever you want. You can carry 100 bombs in various pockets if you could support the bulk.

Pockets! who needs pockets! Good thing too as no mundane item is described as having any: the Held, Worn, and Stowed Items errata says items can be tucked into pockets but doesn't included them in anything. ;)

[Watery Soup]

Cordell Kintner wrote:

This is why bandoliers were removed.

Were they errataed out?

Have I been meticulously arranging items in my bandolier like a total chump?

[Cordell Kintner]

Watery Soup wrote:

Cordell Kintner wrote:

This is why bandoliers were removed.

Were they errataed out?

Have I been meticulously arranging items in my bandolier like a total chump?

Yea, back in the last errata when they overhauled Held, Worn, and Stowed Items. At the end of that entry it says:

Quote:

This change also removes several sorts of "container" items from the tables on 286-292, as they are no longer tracked separately from the items they store. These are: bandolier, belt pouch, satchel, scroll case, sheath, vial

The only limit is being able to wear two toolkits that you would be able to use as part of the action that requires them.

[graystone]

As a bonus, there is now a reason quivers don't exist! You just stuff the arrows in your boots, in a belt or whatever. ;)

[Ravingdork]

graystone wrote:

As a bonus, there is now a reason quivers don't exist! You just stuff the arrows in your boots, in a belt or whatever. ;)

Bah, you beat me to it!

Cordell Kintner wrote:

The only limit is being able to wear two toolkits that you would be able to use as part of the action that requires them.

Unless of you're wearing fine clothing. Then you can only wear a single L bulk worth of tools (which basically just means thieves' tools at the moment).

[Intemperiae]

Thank you all again for the helpful information.

I actually did not realize that bandoliers were taken out with the last errata. Most of the information I have comes from the Core Rulebook and Advanced Players Guide I have at home as well as sometimes Archives of Nethys if I want to look something up real quick.

And as only the last one is updated with the errata, I completely missed it. Time to download and read the 2nd print version of the rule book to check what changed.

[Ravingdork]

Intemperiae wrote:

Thank you all again for the helpful information.

I actually did not realize that bandoliers were taken out with the last errata. Most of the information I have comes from the Core Rulebook and Advanced Players Guide I have at home as well as sometimes Archives of Nethys if I want to look something up real quick.

And as only the last one is updated with the errata, I completely missed it. Time to download and read the 2nd print version of the rule book to check what changed.

Here's the link to the official errata. I don't believe I saw anyone post it for you earlier.

[BeardedTree]

Is there a limit on what can be worn as opposed to stowed? Can you "wear" 50 healing potions? I'm asking because I know people in my group will ask and I can't find a set limit of items/bulk.

[graystone]

BeardedTree wrote:

Is there a limit on what can be worn as opposed to stowed? Can you "wear" 50 healing potions? I'm asking because I know people in my group will ask and I can't find a set limit of items/bulk.

You can wear your entire bulk allowance on your body. You can wear a few thousand candles if you want.

[BeardedTree]

graystone wrote:

BeardedTree wrote:

Is there a limit on what can be worn as opposed to stowed? Can you "wear" 50 healing potions? I'm asking because I know people in my group will ask and I can't find a set limit of items/bulk.

You can wear your entire bulk allowance on your body. You can wear a few thousand candles if you want.

Okay I figured I'd ask because I know my players will definitely ask. And make dumb jokes.

[graystone]

BeardedTree wrote:

graystone wrote:

BeardedTree wrote:

Is there a limit on what can be worn as opposed to stowed? Can you "wear" 50 healing potions? I'm asking because I know people in my group will ask and I can't find a set limit of items/bulk.

You can wear your entire bulk allowance on your body. You can wear a few thousand candles if you want.

Okay I figured I'd ask because I know my players will definitely ask. And make dumb jokes.

The DM can impose whatever limits they want of course, but the game itself doesn't. It's up to each group to figure out where their limit is. ;)

[Cordell Kintner]

You know, I've been thinking about it, and I think it should work. It's an Interact action to draw an item from the sleeves, and Quick Bomber says you Interact to draw a bomb. So yea, it actually should work with the Sleeves.

[Lodurr]

Cordell Kintner wrote:

You know, I've been thinking about it, and I think it should work. It's an Interact action to draw an item from the sleeves, and Quick Bomber says you Interact to draw a bomb. So yea, it actually should work with the Sleeves.

I'm split on whether this works RAW or not but my gut says RAI it shouldn't.

I wish "draw" had a set definition, or the Quick Draw/Bomber/Shot feats specified "a worn item" if that is what's intended.

The lack of specificity also leads to debates about whether or not you can pick a weapon up off of the ground or an adjacent table with Quick Draw, because it would also technically be an Interact action that leads to a weapon being in your hand. The word "draw" is truly being stretched to its limits there but regardless it's up for debate when it comes to TTRPGs.

IMO Sleeves of Storage should fall into the "backpack, sack, or similar container" section of Table 6-2: Changing Equipment, with the exception that Sleeves' entry says it takes only one hand to add or remove an item.

Sleeves of Storage reads as though it was intended as a Bag-of-Holding-but-for-casters item, especially because of the focus on it being a shelter for a familiar. It doesn't strike me as an item meant for martials to quickly draw a longsword or a crossbow from their sleeves and immediately attack with it--or for an Alchemist to store up to 100 bombs and throw whichever specific bomb he wants from it as a single action. That sounds a little advanced for a level 4 item.

[HumbleGamer]

Why would an alchemist waste the sleeves space for an item they can withdraw and throw with a single action, regardless the container ( apart from backpacks, obviously) they are stored?

Talking about an alchemist, I'd find more reasonable to have an healing or a juggernaut elixir.

Regardless how this interaction works, I see really no real use for placing a bomb there.

It would be like having quick draw and place a dagger inside the gloves.

[Lodurr]

The question I have is about the Quick Bomber and Quick Draw feats. I have a level 5 Alchemist Chirurgeon who was struggling with encumbrance until he bought Sleeves of Storage, and throwing bombs from them for a single action seems off to me because every other container in the game requires a heavy action economy tax to retrieve items. Sleeves circumvents some of that, because it costs more and holds less than Bag of Holding, but if it enables Quick Bomber as well as granting your familiar a hidey hole then it seems way too good—a must-buy for Alchemists with familiars who rely on bombs in combat.

The rules text for Quick Bomber is short and sweet:

You keep your bombs in easy-to-reach pouches from which you draw without thinking. You Interact to draw a bomb, then Strike with it.

The first sentence is descriptive, the second sentence is the mechanics. The relevant part is: you Interact to draw a bomb.

Sleeves of Storage’s entry says that the way to retrieve items from them is as follows:

You can add or remove an item from a sleeve with a single hand free as an Interact action.

There are two lingering questions:

1) Is “Interact to draw” functionally the same as “Interact to remove a stowed item from a container”? If yes, does that also work with holding a Bag of Holding in one hand, one free hand, and the Quick Draw/Bomber feat? Does it work with drawing a weapon off of the ground? What if the weapon is in an adjacent square, unattended?

2) Is the described action in Sleeves of Storage’s entry a unique action? (notably, it's not a magical Activation) Or can items in the Sleeves be acted on by any action, spell, etc that asks you to Interact to pick up, retrieve, or draw an item?

TL;DR - questions 1 & 2

[Guntermench]

Other storage items have a heavy action tax because you're generally wearing them in ways that make it harder to get stuff out, like on your back for a backpack. Personally I think it works, and I think it would work with a Bag of Holding of you were just carrying it around in one hand.

[Guntermench]

Rereading, it's only in regards to worn items that the word "draw" is used, so I wouldn't allow this.

Wielding Items has a chart for this.

[Lodurr]

Guntermench wrote:

Rereading, it's only in regards to worn items that the word "draw" is used, so I wouldn't allow this.

Wielding Items has a chart for this.

Great point! That may be as close as one can get to a hard answer at the moment.