Issues with Two-weapon flurry [press]


Gunslinger Class


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Two-weapon flurry comes with the press trait. It also requires 2 (loaded) weapons to be wielded. The only way it can be used is if you start your turn wielding 2 weapons, striking once, drop, draw (without using quick draw) and then use the level 14 feat that either quick draw can do by itself or prefer to just use paired shots (level 8 feat) instead. This also skips your ability to use the pistolero deed "finish the job" so final shot is @ -10 MAP no matter what.

This can be solved with being quickened from haste or having two-weapom reload, but those are outside factors.

Pistoleros retort is not bad but abit boring and that deed could be used to perhaps allow to draw a pistol freely once a turn or allow to load 2 pistols at once. Finish the job could be a passive that kick in whenever you miss

[Edit] it could be used in melee but seems still odd to give press trait @lvl 14 without a fail effect. It has the flourish trait and can't be used with reloading strike


It's literally the Fighter feat of same level and name and works the same.

Here the fighter one.

Shadow Lodge

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Kyrone wrote:

It's literally the Fighter feat of same level and name and works the same.

Here the fighter one.

I believe the point is that it is extremely awkward (at best) to use this feat with weapons that need to be reloaded.

Assuming you start the round with a pistol in each hand and your first action is a ranged strike with one of them, you now have:
  • A Loaded pistol in one hand,
  • An unloaded pistol in the other hand, and
  • No free hand to reload the unloaded weapon.
Your simplest option for actually using the 'flurry' is to drop the empty pistol, draw a loaded pistol as your second action, and then flurry with your third action. Of course, this requires a number of 'extra' weapons and doesn't get you any advantage over just using the Quickdraw feat (three shots in one round).

So yes, it's the same feat as fighters get, but its usage is hobbled by needing to reload: At the moment, it looks like a feat no gunslinger should take...

Horizon Hunters

My understanding was this was meant to be used only for drifters, hit with sword, then flurry. The feat is completely rubbish for dual wielding pistols. In fact there is no good way to dual wield pistols without abusing quick draw and doubling rings to ignore reload and just keep dropping a pistol after every attack.

I think this would still be very usable if the Reloading Strike feat at level 6 was not also a flourish. The fact you can only use one of them per round is what really kills the combo. Since a melee/ranged drifter benefits more from a free reload when he can't reload otherwise than from a free attack at -10 (or -8 with agile melee).

Then again removing flourish from Reloading Strike would let them hit 4 times per round, 3 melee 1 ranged. Even then I wonder if Rebounding Assault + Reloading Strike would be better by reducing MAP.


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Backtospawn wrote:

My understanding was this was meant to be used only for drifters, hit with sword, then flurry. The feat is completely rubbish for dual wielding pistols. In fact there is no good way to dual wield pistols without abusing quick draw and doubling rings to ignore reload and just keep dropping a pistol after every attack.

I think this would still be very usable if the Reloading Strike feat at level 6 was not also a flourish. The fact you can only use one of them per round is what really kills the combo. Since a melee/ranged drifter benefits more from a free reload when he can't reload otherwise than from a free attack at -10 (or -8 with agile melee).

Then again removing flourish from Reloading Strike would let them hit 4 times per round, 3 melee 1 ranged. Even then I wonder if Rebounding Assault + Reloading Strike would be better by reducing MAP.

You can't even abuse the doubling rings actually, they're linked to one pair of firearms and after dropping the first pistol you're down to mundane or significantly lower level runes on your pistols. The only vaguely functional way to play a dual-pistol Pistolero is to spend your second level and fourth level feats on the Dual-Weapon Warrior Archetype to get the Dual-Weapon Reload feat that allows you to reload a one-handed ranged weapon while your other hand is occupied by a weapon.


Backtospawn wrote:

My understanding was this was meant to be used only for drifters, hit with sword, then flurry. The feat is completely rubbish for dual wielding pistols. In fact there is no good way to dual wield pistols without abusing quick draw and doubling rings to ignore reload and just keep dropping a pistol after every attack.

I think this would still be very usable if the Reloading Strike feat at level 6 was not also a flourish. The fact you can only use one of them per round is what really kills the combo. Since a melee/ranged drifter benefits more from a free reload when he can't reload otherwise than from a free attack at -10 (or -8 with agile melee).

Then again removing flourish from Reloading Strike would let them hit 4 times per round, 3 melee 1 ranged. Even then I wonder if Rebounding Assault + Reloading Strike would be better by reducing MAP.

A feat should not be locked in to a 'way' unless the way is a prerequesite, and it is bad if for the hobby if the feat is good for only one type of play, in case if you missed the whole "illusion of choice" debate. This was a lazy feat stolen from fighter that works poorly for the gunslinger, and they got my opinion. Without press, this feat would give such a good opportunity to blast turn 1 for the brace of pistols type of guy

Horizon Hunters

Djinn71 wrote:
Backtospawn wrote:

My understanding was this was meant to be used only for drifters, hit with sword, then flurry. The feat is completely rubbish for dual wielding pistols. In fact there is no good way to dual wield pistols without abusing quick draw and doubling rings to ignore reload and just keep dropping a pistol after every attack.

I think this would still be very usable if the Reloading Strike feat at level 6 was not also a flourish. The fact you can only use one of them per round is what really kills the combo. Since a melee/ranged drifter benefits more from a free reload when he can't reload otherwise than from a free attack at -10 (or -8 with agile melee).

Then again removing flourish from Reloading Strike would let them hit 4 times per round, 3 melee 1 ranged. Even then I wonder if Rebounding Assault + Reloading Strike would be better by reducing MAP.

You can't even abuse the doubling rings actually, they're linked to one pair of firearms and after dropping the first pistol you're down to mundane or significantly lower level runes on your pistols. The only vaguely functional way to play a dual-pistol Pistolero is to spend your second level and fourth level feats on the Dual-Weapon Warrior Archetype to get the Dual-Weapon Reload feat that allows you to reload a one-handed ranged weapon while your other hand is occupied by a weapon.

Right I just saw it bonds to a pair of weapons. I guess investing in the archetype is the only way without having to drop and pick up weapons constantly. They definitely need to add either some support for the dual pistol theme or remove the flavor text refering to it because even with the archetype 2 reload actions are too much for either a Flurry attack or a Paired Shots is just not worth it, not to mention all the reactions that required a loaded gun.

Laki7z wrote:
Backtospawn wrote:

My understanding was this was meant to be used only for drifters, hit with sword, then flurry. The feat is completely rubbish for dual wielding pistols. In fact there is no good way to dual wield pistols without abusing quick draw and doubling rings to ignore reload and just keep dropping a pistol after every attack.

I think this would still be very usable if the Reloading Strike feat at level 6 was not also a flourish. The fact you can only use one of them per round is what really kills the combo. Since a melee/ranged drifter benefits more from a free reload when he can't reload otherwise than from a free attack at -10 (or -8 with agile melee).

Then again removing flourish from Reloading Strike would let them hit 4 times per round, 3 melee 1 ranged. Even then I wonder if Rebounding Assault + Reloading Strike would be better by reducing MAP.

A feat should not be locked in to a 'way' unless the way is a prerequesite, and it is bad if for the hobby if the feat is good for only one type of play, in case if you missed the whole "illusion of choice" debate. This was a lazy feat stolen from fighter that works poorly for the gunslinger, and they got my opinion. Without press, this feat would give such a good opportunity to blast turn 1 for the brace of pistols type of guy

I was just mentioning it seems it was added with that way in mind but even in those ideal conditions it's still bad (specially for a level 14 feat). I haven't played it yet but it does seem the Gunslinger needs multiple changes before dual wielding guns is viable.

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