What would be the best spell to permanently change your hair / eye color?

[Yqatuba]

I know wish or miracle could, but that seems like massive overkill. I would definitely allow limited wish to do so as well as a DM (as it has no mechanical effect), but that also seems like overkill. Is there anything lower level that would work?

[Artofregicide]

Define permanent? Would an illusion or polymorph do, which could hypothetically be dispelled? What about an alchemicals?

For the sake of knowing, what color(s)?

[Yqatuba]

like it would either last forever unless dispelled (permanent) or be instantaneous (i.e it can't be dispelled as the magic is already "done", but could still be changed with other magic). As for what color I was thinking having 1 green eye and 1 blue would be cool.

[DeathlessOne]

You could always dabble with Demonic Implants. hehehehe

[Theaitetos]

Some divination spells make your eyes glow in (un)specific colors, and those can often be made permanent with Permanency.
For example Arcane Sight, Aura Sight, and Enchantment Sight.

Since there's no mechanical difference, the glow color should be up to the spellcaster.

[Dragonchess Player]

Looking at a few relevant spells:

Arcane mark allows a character to "inscribe your personal rune or mark, which can consist of no more than six characters," but "if an arcane mark is placed on a living being, the effect gradually fades in about a month."

Prestidigitation can "color...items in a 1-foot cube each round," but "any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour."

Fabricate disguise is instantaneous, but "can’t alter your body or change the structure of objects, but can style wigs, apply makeup or piercings, and otherwise make use of tools to make superficial changes."

Alter self allows a character to "assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the humanoid type" and even gain some sensory and movement abilities of the assumed form, but only for a limited time (1 min/level).

Personally, I think a 0-level spell to change hair color for one month and a different 0-level spell to change eye color for one month would probably be reasonable. A personal range spell that could cause an instantaneous change to hair and/or eye color is probably the most similar to fabricate disguise and should probably be a 1st-level spell.

[Theaitetos]

You can try this:
1st, create a Lesser Simulacrum of yourself.
2nd, temporarily change bodies with the Simulacrum, via some spell/effect.
3rd, cast Sculpt Simulacrum on your original body (currently inhabited by the Simulacrum, therefore a legal target).
4th, let the body swap spell expire.
Done, you sculpted your own body with an instantaneous spell!

Other options may work with:
the Transplant Visage spell, with only transplanting individual eyes;
the Transfiguring Touch spell, by temporarily removing your eye [to turn it into an object], changing the material inside the iris, then healing it back in.

[Hugo Rune]

My gut feel is around 2nd or 3rd level for a permanent illusion spell or 4th for an instantaneous transformation spell.

[Lucy_Valentine]

Die, Sculpt Corpse, Raise Dead. Easier than Wish, though you do have to trust somebody. For added cheapness while adventuring, just have it as an "in case of death" instruction, which will come up sooner or later.

Of course, the cheaper solution is to get a hat of disguise.

[avr]

Polymorph any object is only one level lower than wish but at least the material component's cheaper.

Claim identity takes more than the eye colour, but it's 3rd level and lasts an hour/level. Assume appearance lasts a day/level but requires a corpse; greater assume appearance bypasses that limit.

[Sysryke]

Permanency is the sticking point here, but I think why is also important. Why just hair and/or eye color? Is this just a fluff thing, or are you looking for even an extremely situational mechanical benefit?

If it's just a role-play thing, I feel like the hour duration of prestidigitation should be enough. Some folks used to call it "least wish". Even if the goal is a tiny bit of disguise or social benefit, and you don't want to appear magical, is getting out of sight for the six seconds it takes to refresh that troublesome? I guess it could be, but in a situation where your being scrutinized that closely, I don't think a dye job is going to get you that far anyway.

[Rauðúlfur]

Sysryke wrote:

Permanency is the sticking point here, but I think why is also important. Why just hair and/or eye color? Is this just a fluff thing, or are you looking for even an extremely situational mechanical benefit?

If it's just a role-play thing, I feel like the hour duration of prestidigitation should be enough. Some folks used to call it "least wish". Even if the goal is a tiny bit of disguise or social benefit, and you don't want to appear magical, is getting out of sight for the six seconds it takes to refresh that troublesome? I guess it could be, but in a situation where your being scrutinized that closely, I don't think a dye job is going to get you that far anyway.

for two feats and a spell you can get extend and magic trick prestidigitation for a one hour per level of casting. Since it requires it as a prerequisite, but technically isn't the same effect, you could possibly apply Extend to the prestidigitation as well as the lasting changes effect to cast prestidigitation for 2 hours per level and a 1st level slot. At 8th level you can just cast it once as part of your daily preparations and you have effective day long effects.

[Ryze Kuja]

Prestidigitation only lasts an hour, but you can easily and cheaply make it permanent. I don't see any reason you couldn't cast the cantrip every hour to maintain the effect for free either, tbh. Then if you decide you want one purple eye and one silver eye one hour, and a green eye and a blue eye the next hour, you can switch them as often as you want.

[OmniMage]

The kind of spells you'd want probably doesn't exist in any pathfinder book. You will probably need to design them yourself (or get help).

Realistically though, there should be some spells out there already. You wouldn't be the first to want them, nor the last. They'd be probably in the hands of some wizard or transmuter specialist.

If you want to do it quick and dirty, you could allow permanency to work on the spells disguise self (2500 gp, cl 9) and alter self (5000 gp, cl 10).

[Senko]

I agree with OmniMage its one of the shortcomings of the pathfinder system in that 70% of the spells are aimed at combat or adventuring effects like travel. We don't really see utility spells (Change hair or eye colour, change sex, mass cleaning of a building, the old Leomund's tiny hut from DnD to build a log cabin from local resources, spells to nudge the weather to desired results, spells to encourage crops to grow healthy and strong, warding spells to protect buildings etc). So you need to perform spell resesarch, get a nice GM and create a custom "Hair dye" spell or other effect you want.

Which isn't to say there aren't utility spells prestidigitation for limited cleaning, light to see by, creation but the ones that generally exist are aimed as I said at the adventuring lifestyle.

[Sysryke]

I can't name them all of the top of my head, but most of the spell effects you listed are in Pathfinder @Senko. They show up on the druid and witch spell lists for sure, some probably wizard or cleric as well. Only ones I'm not certain of are the mass cleaning and Leomund's tiny hut. I know there is a "tiny hut" but I don't knowif it's the same spell.

Off the top of my head though: prestidigitation, disguise self, alter self, polymorph, control weather, plant growth, and several more come to mind.

It's not so much that the utility spells aren't there, as that they don't get used as much by traveling adventurers. The "fit" better for more settled NPCs. Some too, are higher level than is worthwhile, lacking in lower level, lesser effect spell families. Especially for spontaneous casters, or wizards/witches on a budget, these spell just aren't worth a spot on the list of spells known.

I do allow though, there are spell effects that just sometimes aren't to be found. I feel like the solution would be to make spellcrafting and spell research a little more common/accessable/useable for PCs. Right now, you can do it, but it's so abstract that it's more effort or hassle than many players or GMs want to deal with.

[avr]

Secure shelter is the spell for making a cabin, tiny hut is more like a magic tent.

There certainly could be more 'civilian' magic in PF1 tho' and it's all but absent from PF2. I do remember seeing a 3rd party book of uneven quality on this once.

[Theaitetos]

D&D has always been about combat first and foremost, while the other parts like social stuff and exploration have moved in later. This legacy can be felt still today in all of the games spawned from this root, including Pathfinder.

That's why in D&D kids can use magic to cast deadly rays of frost, but not to throw harmless snowballs. The young novice at the church can fire positive energy rays at undead, but not mend a cut he got from paper. Shoot deadly acid in someone's face - check; do something about the toe you stubbed last night - nope.

There are other RPG rule systems out there that feature a lot more "civilian magic", usually on a cantrip-equivalent level for things like shaving/hairstyling, illumination/star sparkling, cosmetics/vanity, tending to & treats for pets/animals, clothing/cleaning, cooking/housekeeping, cold stares & eerie smiles, mad laughter & burning hair, parlor tricks with elements, fairy dust, summoning harmless tiny outsiders/constructs, auditory/olfactory ambience, keeping harmless insects away, non-damaging "educational" canes, recoloring eyes/scales/objects, tattoos/painting, writing & talking objects, funny/annoying quotes in original voice, ...

And so we end up with suggestions like this for a simple coloring question:

Lucy_Valentine wrote:

Die, Sculpt Corpse, Raise Dead.

:)

However, now that I think about it, heterochrome eyes are usually the mark of changelings, right? So it might not be such a good idea to make people believe you're in league with hags.

[OmniMage]

Ah. I remembered something. Cursed magic items often have drawbacks that can change physical height, hair color, hair length, skin color, gender, or even race. One drawback is they only work while you have the item. Another drawback is that they don't have prices either, so its hard to judge their worth.

Wasn't there an elixir that changed your gender? I can't seem to find it at the moment.

[OmniMage]

Masterwork Transformation might be the closest civilian like spell with an instantaneous duration that I can find at the moment. It allows you to turn 1 non-masterwork item into its masterwork equivalent. The material component cost is the price difference between the non-masterwork version and the masterwork version. So weapons cost 300 gp, armors 150 gp, and tools is 50 gp.

My point is that a civilian spell that permanently (instantaneous) transforms a person's physical qualities might also be a 2nd level spell with a material component cost. Such a spell, when cast by a wizard, would cost 60 gp (2 spell level * 3 caster level * 10 gp) for the spell itself. Maybe throw in a 10 gp material component cost on top of that. So the net cost of hiring a spell caster to change some cosmetic aspect of your body would cost 70 gp.

At 70 gp, its not something a commoner can afford to buy without saving up, but is not wildly outside of anything they could ever hope to afford. As a 2nd level spell, you might have to do some searching to find someone who can cast it (a small little village isn't likely to have a 3rd level caster). To be cost efficient, maybe have the spell cover all possible changes you want in one casting, or have the material component cost be 10 gp per features you want changed.

[Senko]

Sysryke wrote:

I can't name them all of the top of my head, but most of the spell effects you listed are in Pathfinder @Senko. They show up on the druid and witch spell lists for sure, some probably wizard or cleric as well. Only ones I'm not certain of are the mass cleaning and Leomund's tiny hut. I know there is a "tiny hut" but I don't knowif it's the same spell.

Off the top of my head though: prestidigitation, disguise self, alter self, polymorph, control weather, plant growth, and several more come to mind.

It's not so much that the utility spells aren't there, as that they don't get used as much by traveling adventurers. The "fit" better for more settled NPCs. Some too, are higher level than is worthwhile, lacking in lower level, lesser effect spell families. Especially for spontaneous casters, or wizards/witches on a budget, these spell just aren't worth a spot on the list of spells known.

I do allow though, there are spell effects that just sometimes aren't to be found. I feel like the solution would be to make spellcrafting and spell research a little more common/accessable/useable for PCs. Right now, you can do it, but it's so abstract that it's more effort or hassle than many players or GMs want to deal with.

Sorry that was badly posted the list of effects was more the exceptions that prove the rule with regards to our not really seeing civilian effects. They come under the other 30% in my post e.g. prestidigitation will clean stuff, plant growth as you said will improve crop effectiveness and so on. For an example of something that we don't have would be insect repellent on crops. There is a repel vermin spell but it only lasts 10 minutes/level and its centered on the caster. It can't be cast on a farmers fields to keep insects off them for months. So there does exist a way to keep away insects but its aimed at protecting a caster against massive threats not at protecting crops against catterpillars and hte like.

[Sysryke]

Theaitetos wrote:

D&D has always been about combat first and foremost, while the other parts like social stuff and exploration have moved in later. This legacy can be felt still today in all of the games spawned from this root, including Pathfinder.

That's why in D&D kids can use magic to cast deadly rays of frost, but not to throw harmless snowballs. The young novice at the church can fire positive energy rays at undead, but not mend a cut he got from paper. Shoot deadly acid in someone's face - check; do something about the toe you stubbed last night - nope.

There are other RPG rule systems out there that feature a lot more "civilian magic", usually on a cantrip-equivalent level for things like shaving/hairstyling, illumination/star sparkling, cosmetics/vanity, tending to & treats for pets/animals, clothing/cleaning, cooking/housekeeping, cold stares & eerie smiles, mad laughter & burning hair, parlor tricks with elements, fairy dust, summoning harmless tiny outsiders/constructs, auditory/olfactory ambience, keeping harmless insects away, non-damaging "educational" canes, recoloring eyes/scales/objects, tattoos/painting, writing & talking objects, funny/annoying quotes in original voice, ...

And so we end up with suggestions like this for a simple coloring question:

Lucy_Valentine wrote:

Die, Sculpt Corpse, Raise Dead.

:)

However, now that I think about it, heterochrome eyes are usually the mark of changelings, right? So it might not be such a good idea to make people believe you're in league with hags.

I don't disagree with your starting premise, or your history notes. However, the positive energy shooting novice can also probably CLW, so the paper cut is covered. For a lesser effect, there used to be a 1HP cure spell in 3.x when level 0 spells still had limited casts per day.

As far as the civilian magic goes though, most of your examples fall under prestidigitation. Others are covered by other cantrips or low level spells. I don't have the search fu to find each spell by its flavor text, but I've seen nearly every exam you give in the spell sections somewhere. Various illusions and conjurations come to mind.

[Sysryke]

Senko wrote:

Sorry that was badly posted the list of effects was more the exceptions that prove the rule with regards to our not really seeing civilian effects. They come under the other 30% in my post e.g. prestidigitation will clean stuff, plant growth as you said will improve crop effectiveness and so on. For an example of something that we don't have would be insect repellent on crops. There is a repel vermin spell but it only lasts 10 minutes/level and its centered on the caster. It can't be cast on a farmers fields to keep insects off them for months. So there does exist a way to keep away insects but its aimed at protecting a caster against massive threats not at protecting crops against catterpillars and hte like.

Ah. I better comprehend your point now. I think Theaitetos summed it up best there. It's a combat system, at least mechanically, first and foremost. I think from that angle, it's nice we get any non-adventuring spells at all. Beyond that, I feel the best fix for this "imbalance" is the allowance of "creative" spell application, both with generic spells that leave room for you to choose effects, and with the use of combat/adventure spells for nonstandard uses. Have to be careful with that of course, as magic is (pretty much unarguably) already the most powerful/broken thing in the game.

[Senko]

I admit I prefer Shadowruns sytem for general mechanics where you learn spell X and can vary its effects for varying costs e.g. your fireball can be a minor love tap giving people sunburn as a warning or a raging inferno consuming all in its area so long as you can handle the drain cost. It also means at higher levels you can repeatedly cast spells that used to be one off because you've progressed to the point they don't strain you any more.

[MrCharisma]

How about BESTOW CURSE to change eye colour?

It's a permanent 3rd level spell (or 4th for some, or 2nd for Mediums) that can do more-or-less anything less powerful than -4 to all d20 rolls.

I'd certainly allow a curse that made someone look like their own greatest enemy or lose their fabled beauty, so why not change eye colour?

Once again you have to trust the caster. Changing their eye colour might not be the only thing the caster does, but it's still safer than the Sculpt Corpse option.

[Mr. Bonkers]

It can be done semi-permanently by utilizing the Magic Trick: Prestidigitation feat and 3 ranks in disguise (or being a Gnome).

The Chromatic Savant portion of the feat allows you to change the color of a part of a living being, which then degrades back to normal over a month or so. So apply every two weeks, I guess.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Step 1. get a familiar. Step 2. familiar takes the Valet archetype. Step 3, familiar can cast Prestidigitation at will. Now have the familiar change your hair and eye color, refreshing this every hour until either it is asleep or it dies.