
Adam500 |
Starting Giantslayer with my group very soon and I came up with something of an a-typical build. I want to both make sure my assumptions are correct (and the build is legal) and also ask for any suggestions to improve both it and my play experience with it.
Dwarf
Traits - Giant-Blooded, Fate's Favored
Warpriest (of Torag) 17 (Protection, Artifice)
1 - Steel Soul, Weapon Focus (Warhammer), Patient Strikes (Sacrifice minor Artifice power)
3 - Power Attack, Cleave
5 - Goblin Cleaver
6 - Vital Strike
7 - Orc Hewer
9 - Great Cleave, Quicken Blessing (Protection)
11 - Improved Critical
12 - Improved Vital Strike
13 - Weapon Trick Cleaving Smash
15 - Cleave Through, Cleaving Finish
17 - feat
Weapon of Choice: Large Warhammer
While it takes a LONG time to come online (due to requiring Improved Vital Strike) the idea is that using an oversized Warhammer (ergo requiring 2 hands) I can using the 2h Weapon Trick cleaving smash to apply Vital Strike to cleave attacks. This trick comes online for the last 5 levels of the campaign and I'm okay with that.
Early play is basically a standard power attack build with an oversized Warhammer. Plus picking up the dwarven cleave support to lead up to the main event.
Not sure what to take as my 17th level feat. And I'm open to suggestions on how to move things around to improve the character.

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It appears to be legal. (Calling the warhammer a two-handed weapon is a bit grey. It is two-handed for you, but it is normally in the one-handed category. The Weapon Trick feat isn't particularly explicit, so I'd probably OK it, but check with your GM.)
However, you have two big problems with this build.
1) When you are building a Goblin Cleaver/Orc Hewer/Giant Killer character, what you really want is reach. Lots and lots of reach. The Lunge feat and access to enlarge person at a minimum. Preferably while using a reach weapon. You will eventually be able to fervor out a righteous might for the size increase, but not until 13th level. With your build, before that you can only cleave creatures that are adjacent to you.
2) In a similar vein, you are playing Giantslayer. Even will all the feats in your build, you can still only use your "cleave to non-adjacent targets" ability against things medium or smaller until you can somehow get enlarged. The size increase also increases the number of damage dice when you Vital Strike.
How I would correct this:
If you are set on playing a Warpriest, you will have to deal with that bottleneck until level 13, but you can make it more effective when you get there. Here's what I would do:
1 - Weapon Focus (Warhammer), Patient Strikes (Sacrifice minor Artifice power), Steel Soul (Retrain to Lunge at BAB +6)
3 - Power Attack, Cleave
5 - Goblin Cleaver
6 - Vital Strike
7 - Orc Hewer
9 - Great Cleave, Weapon Trick (Two-Handed Weapon)
11 - Improved Critical (or lunge if retraining was not allowed)
12 - Improved Vital Strike
13 - feat
15 - Strike Back, Giant Killer
17 - feat
Personally I'd probably pick a different deity as well, one that has a reach weapon as her favored weapon.
It's a fun build, but a tricky one. Every time I've tried to come up with a good level progression I've ended up with a multiclass monster of at least 3 classes. And even then it doesn't get really awesome until 11th level.

SheepishEidolon |

Do you insist on the warhammer? Because earthbreaker is a similar weapon but naturally two-handed, with a good base damage of 2d6.
Alternatively you can wield a normal warhammer with two hands, and get Str and Power Attack damage boosts as for an actual two-handed weapon. This way you get rid of the -2 attack penalty from an oversized weapon, can use the warhammer one-handed when needed (being grappled...) and at level 10+ you will benefit from warpriest increased weapon damage dice.
EDIT: Reading Belafon's remarks about reach weapons reminded me: Dwarves actually have a dedicated weapon to fight giants: The longhammer.
Getting lead blades cast on the hammer or enchanting it with the impact property should help with damage. IMO effective weapon size increases work with sacred weapon, but better ask your GM.
Given you get Orc Hewer (plus a spell for size increase) and Cleave Through, Cleave should work often. When it comes to positioning for Cleave, a dwarf's slow base speed and the risk of AOOs could become problems - a spell or item fixes the former, high AC or concealment the latter.
You will need a few rounds to finish these giants, so you might want a good AC anyway. Unless the rest of the party excels at killing them quickly, of course...

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Do you insist on the warhammer? Because earthbreaker is a similar weapon but naturally two-handed, with a good base damage of 2d6.
EDIT: Reading Belafon's remarks about reach weapons reminded me: Dwarves actually have a dedicated weapon to fight giants: The longhammer.
Actually, yeah, I forgot that warpriests could choose any weapon as a focus weapon, not just their deity's favored. Go with the longhammer. (As a dwarf you treat it as martial, and warpriests are proficient in all martial weapons.)
Getting lead blades cast on the hammer or enchanting it with the impact property should help with damage. IMO effective weapon size increases work with sacred weapon, but better ask your GM.
Impact is probably the better choice. Lead blades is personal only. You can try to UMD a wand, but that takes up an action. The question of size increases stacking with sacred weapon damage isn't going to be an issue with a longhammer. A medium longhammer does 2d6 base damage, and sacred weapon doesn't exceed that until 20th level.

Adam500 |
It appears to be legal. (Calling the warhammer a two-handed weapon is a bit grey. It is two-handed for you, but it is normally in the one-handed category. The Weapon Trick feat isn't particularly explicit, so I'd probably OK it, but check with your GM.)
He has seen the build and gave the okay, I was really wondering if we were off on our read of it.
Regarding all the other points that have been made:
Using Warhammers was the big thing that was non-negotiable about this build. My GM asked for someone to use them as a weapon since the campaign apparently throws a LOT of magic warhammers at you down the line (including some artifacts) and he didn't want the party to feel it was missing out.
I always forget that Lunge is a feat, otherwise it would have been in the build somewhere already... Not sure if its legal to retrain a lvl1 feat into it though, can't you only retrain into feats that were legal to take at the time? (ie. If I couldn't take it at lvl1 I can't retrain a lvl 1 feat into it). Not looking at the the retrain rules atm but will investigate that on my own later. Its a good option.
Warpriest isn't 100% required for this character (its based on a PFS character I once played who was an inquisitor), and I didn't realize the Warpriest couldn't increase size til lvl 13. Any other suggestions for fixes to this are appreciated. Its a little late to not be a divine caster (the rest of the party is set).
Also looking over the proposed feat progression Belafon posted: My weapon trick requires Improved Vital Strike. The earliest I can have it was the lvl 13 spot in my original build - unless I can squeeze Improved vital in earlier.

SheepishEidolon |
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Using Warhammers was the big thing that was non-negotiable about this build. My GM asked for someone to use them as a weapon since the campaign apparently throws a LOT of magic warhammers at you down the line (including some artifacts) and he didn't want the party to feel it was missing out.
Well, he is totally in the position to change the item type. Question is rather whether he is willing.
A medium longhammer does 2d6 base damage, and sacred weapon doesn't exceed that until 20th level.
Yup. Originally the normal warhammer paragraph and the effective size increase one were in squence, but I destroyed the logical connection by squeezing in the longhammer paragraph with an edit.

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Using Warhammers was the big thing that was non-negotiable about this build. My GM asked for someone to use them as a weapon since the campaign apparently throws a LOT of magic warhammers at you down the line (including some artifacts) and he didn't want the party to feel it was missing out.
So, it's metagamey to ask this, but are you sure that the campaign throws a lot of LARGE magic warhammers at you? If you get a medium artifact warhammer, that's going to mess up your theme.
I always forget that Lunge is a feat, otherwise it would have been in the build somewhere already... Not sure if its legal to retrain a lvl1 feat into it though, can't you only retrain into feats that were legal to take at the time? (ie. If I couldn't take it at lvl1 I can't retrain a lvl 1 feat into it). Not looking at the the retrain rules atm but will investigate that on my own later. Its a good option.
The Pathfinder 1 rules don't have such a requirement. All that is necessary is that you met all the prerequisites when you are retraining and the feat you are losing is not a prerequisite for anything else. Assuming your GM allows retraining.
Warpriest isn't 100% required for this character (its based on a PFS character I once played who was an inquisitor), and I didn't realize the Warpriest couldn't increase size til lvl 13. Any other suggestions for fixes to this are appreciated. Its a little late to not be a divine caster (the rest of the party is set).
Gonna have to think about that one. Goliath Druid would be fun but - this is a very feat-intensive build and warpriest is one of the few divine classes that gets a decent number of them.
Also looking over the proposed feat progression Belafon posted: My weapon trick requires Improved Vital Strike. The earliest I can have it was the lvl 13 spot in my original build - unless I can squeeze Improved vital in earlier.
This is the tricky (haha) thing about Weapon Trick. You don't pick an individual trick when you take the feat, you pick a class of weapons (such as two-handed weapons). That gives you access to all the two-handed tricks that you meet the individual prerequisites for. Improved Vital Strike (and Cleave and Power Attack) are not prerequisites for taking the feat. You can take the feat at any time after you have a BAB of +1. However you can't use a trick until you meet the specific trick prerequisites. So you can take it early so that you aren't waiting an extra level.

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If Giantslayer were re-written today some of those silly one-handed warhammers would likely be converted to Dwarven Longhammers. The latter is obviously a superior weapon against giants. Maybe ask your GM if he wouldn't consider CHANGING some of those iconic warhammers to Dwarven Warhammer. Reach is so important for fighting giants that you're probably better off with a non-magical dwarven warhammer (with reach) than you are with a powerful magic warhammer (lacking reach).
Few early Paizo adventure authors though much about reach weapons. It wasn't on their radar. Reach weapons are optimal for giants but they never seem to carry one.

Scott Wilhelm |
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You should be a Divine Commander Warpriest. You should 2 weapon fight with Warhammer and Sickle, and take Greater Trip, and Vicious Stomp. Your bonus Teamwork Feat should be Harder they Fall, so you can Trip Giants.
But the big thing is that you will be fighting with hammer and sickle: You'll be the Soviet Union!

Ryze Kuja |

I'm not sure if you're 100% sold on going with a Large-sized Warhammer, but you might be interested in hearing about something I was recently toying around with; a custom-created weapon that's meant to be used by a Warpriest or Brawler.
A two-handed Exotic custom-created weapon has 12 design points, so basically take the damage of the weapon down to 1d2 damage, which should increase your DP to 13, then increase crit range and crit multiplier to 19-20/x4 for 3+6+3=12 points and have 1 point that you can spend on Reach, Attached, Traditional, Strong, w/e you want (but you'll probably want to go with Reach). Your Sacred Weapon causes the 1d2 damage to increase to 1d6 at level 1 and then increase as you level. WBL for lvl 5 is 10,500g, so for the cost of 1 Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat and a +1 Keen Enchant (8,000gp), you could be running around with a 1d8 17-20/x4 weapon as early as level 5. Levels 1-4 would be 1d6 19-20/x4, so that's still really good.
You seem to be looking more for lvl 17+, so your Sacred Weapon should be 2d6 17-20/x4. Figure out a way to get UMD via multiclass dips or traits, and put points in UMD, and get wands of Lead Blades and Enlarge Person. With Lead Blades and Enlarge, you should be dealing 4d6 with your Huge-sized Sacred Weapon now.
Now let's look at Cleaving Smash, allowing you to Vital Strike on Cleaves.
If you get Greater Vital Strike, you can do Improved Vital Strike damage on your Cleaved targets, so roll your weapon's damage 3 times.
That's 15ft reach 12d6 + Str/PwrAtt/Enchantment damage with 17-20/x4 to all targets.

Ryze Kuja |

Personally, I'd go:
Dwarf
Traits - Giant-Blooded, Fate's Favored
Warpriest (of Torag) 17 (Protection, Artifice)
1 - Exotic Weap Proficiency (Custom Weapon), Weapon Focus (Custom Weapon), Patient Strikes (Sacrifice minor Artifice power)
3 - Power Attack, Cleave
5 - Goblin Cleaver
6 - Vital Strike
7 - Orc Hewer
9 - Great Cleave, Quicken Blessing (Protection)
11 - Cleaving Finish (or Steel Soul)
12 - Improved Vital Strike
13 - Weapon Trick Cleaving Smash
15 - Cleave Through, Improved Cleaving Finish (or Cleaving Finish if you got Steel Soul at 11)
17 - Any feat
18 - Greater Vital Strike
Since you're kinda Feat Starved by getting the EWP, drop Steel Soul and swap Imp Critical for Cleaving Finish and use a Keen Enchant.

Adam500 |
I've actually moved away from Cleave. Campaign has currently reached level 4 and I think I have a build I'm mostly happy with.
Traits - Giant-Blooded, Fate's Favored
Warpirest (of Torag) 17
1 - Steel Soul, Weapon Focus (Warhammer), Patient Strikes*
3 - Bodyguard, Dwarven Hatred Style
5 - Step Up
6 - Dwarven Seething
7 - Blessed Hammer
9 - Disruptive, Dwarven Fury
11 - Improved Critical
12 - Spellbreaker
13 - Shatterspell
15 - Teleport Tactician, Following Step
17 - Step Up and Strike
Weapon of Choice: Warhammer (Currently wielding Agrimmosh)
Currently sword/boarding with my warhammer. Though I could drop the shield for damage if needed.
On second blush I don't know how I feel about Dwarven Hatred/Seething/Fury. If anyone has any suggestions for better feats I'm open to retraining the opening style (it was useful in the first book though).
In ranged encounters I find myself using a sling. Would weapon focus sling just to get sacred weapon damage be worth it?

Adam500 |
Slings take a move action to load unless you spend a couple of feats. They're not good enough to spend a weapon focus feat on, even for a little more damage. A bow does a d8 damage natively if you want that.
Huh, missed that. Only came up in two fights really (and in one I wasn't very mobile anyway), but better we know that now.
I think later on I'm gonna be using Artifice Domain's second power with a +1 sharding dagger in order to turn whatever hammer I'm wielding into a thrown weapon (or do other temporarily useful modification not covered by Sacred weapon, that'll probably just be the most common).