Hello all. Once I get a new computer (so...maybe next year sometime) I'm gonna be running either Stance Aeons or Iron Gods (but probably strange aeons) for my group. The only snag I have is, my group consists of me and two other players. Neither are big on optimization. Do you think a significant amount of reworking will be required to make this work? And what should I be on the lookout for as I prep? This will be the first AP I've ever run but I'm rather experienced in running homebrew material. Rules and the like come easy to me. So. Any tips? Oh I've played with this group for a while so I'm used to balancing games around 2 players. But I've never run an AP. Thanks all. I also posted this in the strange aeons part of the forum but I feel like I'll get more hits here. Thanks
I ran into this problem in book 1 when I had three players.
Give them one or two supporting NPCs at the start of the adventure. The fight with the 2nd doppelganger (CR 3 encounter) is going to be rough.
They can pick up further friendly NPC recruits in the adventure.
You might consider giving them one mythic tier to start. After that, they should level faster from only splitting the xp in two and keep a pace with the adventure.
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APs are written for 4 players. So various solutions. You could have each player play 2 pcs. You could have npcs assist them. You could adjust all the encounters to make them easier. You could have them start with 2nd level characters..
You could try to run as is. The players would need to be smart and lucky to survive at first, but if they do then they'll level quickly and get lots of extra gear so they may be able to manage, though if they aren't big on optimization that's probably not the route to take.
I played the first half of serpent skull with a group of only 4 (3 players and the gm). We did 25 point buy to compensate, he pretty much ran it as written and it worked out fine.
All great advice thank you all
The main thing I can think of is about the balance for 2 players. I know you said you have experience with this (so maybe you've already thought of this), but the important aspect is that disabling 1 character means half the party is disabled (rather than 1/4).
Grappling is absolutely crippling to smaller groups. Ghouls will end the party.
Any save-or-suck effect is more likely to just shut the party down. If you hit the party with a save-or-suck effect and one party member fails that's half the party out. Even if they both have a 90% success rate on their save (pass on a 3+) there's still a 19% chance someone fails that save, and a 1% chance that the whole party is out.
I'd consider lowering most of the save DCs (-2 to everything is probably enough), or in some circumstances lowering the effect on a failed save (Shaken instead of Frightened, or Staggered instead of Paralyzed). If you just apply a blanket rule to the AP (like -2 to all save DCs, or one less severe for all effects).
Balancing the rest of the numbers is a bit more subtle, but balancong those effects that end encounters is something you can probably do without too much advanced re-writing and will seriously cut down on TPKs and/or GM-fiat-wins.
I was talking with my group about potential solutions and one of them brought up gestalting. I've run a gestalt campaign once before and they seemed to latch onto it. What do y'all think on that? Too good? Still too weak? F***s with everything?
While I think it would be a fun idea they both just played pet classes in the last campaign I ran and they both agreed to not wanting to play a pet class for a while
We did Iron Gods with two players running 2 PCs each. Now doing Rise of The Runelords. Works great. And I get to try 2 different builds at the same time.
I also don’t think gestalt will do much to help. A mythic tier is nice because it both gives you extra hit points and better action economy to make up for missing players. And while mythic can get out of hand, a single tier should not break anything.
There’s no great way to help the issue with being grappled/controlled. You may just have to cut back on monsters that do that.
You’re already wanting to make 1 character the equivalent of two. “Godly powers” are a bit of a given. But seriously, unless you go full munchkin, the one mythic tier should get pretty close to making one character the equivalent to 2.
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Well, I said that recalling one game where the gm gave my character 1 mythic tier. We were pretty high level, 14 or 15. We infiltrated this temple of asmodeus, pcs pretty much ran everywhere and pulled every encounter simultaneously. My mythic 1 ranger ended up fighting two encounters worth of guys by herself, while my other 5 non-mythic party members were fighting another 2 encounters. We finished our fights at the same time. So my experience with mythic is that it is stupidly op.
Like I said, one mythic tier makes you roughly equivalent to 2 characters. I imagine lots of two man teams could have taken that encounter without mythic.
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I was talking with my group about potential solutions and one of them brought up gestalting. I've run a gestalt campaign once before and they seemed to latch onto it. What do y'all think on that? Too good? Still too weak? F***s with everything?Honestly? Gestalt doesn't solve problems. It actually makes problems here. Gestalt makes you more of an ideal character. Gestalt gives you the choices of the abilities from 2 character classes, but it doesn't give you double the hp, or double the saves, or twice as many attacks.
I think this is slightly incorrect. You don't add the HP/saves/etc from both classes, but a Fighter/Wizard will still have more HP and a higher Fort-save than a Wizard, and a higher Will-save than a Cleric. The extra feat could be used to get Toughness, and the wizard spells could be used to give the Fighter extra options.
It's not the same as having 2 charscters on the field, but it certainly can improve a character's survivability.
I thinn gestalt (or possibly a mythic tier - but I have no experience with that) couod work well as an alternative to running GMPCs or giving each player 2 characters (which would also be fine).
I do think if there are only 2 PCs you'll probably have to dial back the save-or-paralyze effects though, even if they're mythic or gestalt (or both).
The AP in question has a lot of moments where the PCs should feel a little overwhelmed. With idealized characters, it is difficult to make them feel overwhelmed without actually crushing them. Especially as the players discover their character histories, having them be super powered beings falling for the main enemies shenanigans becomes more unbearably stupid.
I can't really comment on this part. My experience with Strange Aeons is listening to the GCP, so pretty much nothing. I am familiar with some of the enemies they'll encounter, and I've played/GM'd for small parties, but that doesn't help much with story-specific stuff =P
My players are really attached to the idea of gestalting. So we're gonna try it out. Under the caveat that if it doesn't work we'll respec and they'll find an NPC ally. As far as SoD/SoS effects are concerned I plan on retooling those to be less brutal. (Ghouls only staggering is a thought I've had) I'm a bit worried about my ability to run an AP. I'm more used to creating homebrew worlds/scenarios so I'm afraid of F***ing up. But I feel much more confident about my ability to create encounters for them now. Thank you all. I'm not familair with the mythic system beyond a cursory glance and my players weren't all that receptive to them when I brought it up so That's a no go. Thanks everyone for all the advice. I'll make a thread detailing my efforts and struggles when the time comes to actually run this
I’d say gestalt gets you closer to being worth the equivalent of 1 and a half characters, for the best combinations. Lesser combinations may get less benefit. A mythic tier gets you a hair under 2 characters worth of power, for most builds. Combining them both should make the characters pretty hardy and may even make the adventure slightly easy, like your two characters being worth 5.
Honestly? Gestalt doesn't solve problems. It actually makes problems here. Gestalt makes you more of an ideal character. Gestalt gives you the choices of the abilities from 2 character classes, but it doesn't give you double the hp, or double the saves, or twice as many attacks.I think this is slightly incorrect. You don't add the HP/saves/etc from both classes, but a Fighter/Wizard will still have more HP and a higher Fort-save than a Wizard, and a higher Will-save than aClericWizard. The extra feat could be used to get Toughness, and the wizard spells could be used to give the Fighter extra options.
I meant Wizard, I don't know why I said Cleric.
** spoiler omitted **
If thast's what happened either your ref totally re-wrote a large chunk of the adventure or ours did. Either way it's cool, but it might confuse the OP if your ref added that plot twist and he can't find that section in the AP.
Slightly more on topic, we played with three PCs (Inquisitor with a fighter dip, witch and wizard/cleric/mystic theurge), plus a bard cohort we picked up in book 2 until lhe went a bit crazy and ran away from us in book 5. Our ref made us +1 level on where the AP expects you to be after book 2, but nothing like mythic of gestalt (which I have never played so can't comment on)to account for the fact there were only three of us.
From my experience of the AP I wouldn't recommend anything that makes the parties mythic or superhuman above and beyond what the default system assumes. A lot of the flavour of the adventure relies on the characters being the small guys up against beings of absolute cosmic horror, and having mythic powers would quite possibly negate that.