| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No, your wizard is going to die of old age. And then eventually cease to exist in the afterlife. The epilogue is oblivion.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
GM discretion with no universal answer. Because that's how the grey undefined areas in Wish work.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Again, lifespan isn't a mechanical concern. And Wish-likes mechanically allow for non-mechanical effects. You can do that if your GM's okay with it, or you can talk with your GM for a story arc centered on finding eternal life, or you can put together a feat that includes such an effect, or you can take my earlier advice and bill yourself whatever you think is a fitting cost to insist to anyone who listens that your character became immortal. It doesn't really matter because lifespan doesn't matter other than for verisimilitude or other story/setting concerns.
And if you are the GM, why are you asking randos on the internet for permission? Just do it. Heck, just do it even if you're a player at this point. It's clearly so important to you that only a particularly stringent/unreasonable GM would insist on your character aging or dying of old age after long timeskips (the only time when it would even be seen) despite it not mattering as long as their other story/setting concerns are met.
I don't know what you expect to gain from continuing to ask about this subject, it's all up to your group.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I am going to assume that the answer is no.
Razmir is one of the characters in setting famous for his obsession with extending his life and immortality. He is a level 19 wizard. That is the level where you level 10 spells.
In comparison, Nex is another famous wizard king, and he is listed as level 20+. I am not sure if he is alive, but two dates associated with him are are -892 AR (when his nation began its war with Geb) and 576 AR (when he disappeared into his refuge, which likely has a created demiplane attached to it; never seen since).
So level 20+ characters get to have 1000+ year backstories. At least, when it could be reasonably assumed that it is due to their magical might.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, Razmir is good evidence that Wish alone doesn't cut it. There are clearly in-setting ways to become magically immortal (as demonstrated by Nex, Old Mage Jatembe, Baba Yaga, and so on), but no real evidence that it's doable before level 20 and a fair bit it's not.
It's a grey area up to the GM. But since there are many characters in world have achieved it but are level 20 or beyond in terms of power I would say it's generally beyond the power of any PC character. Or certainly outside the scope of what will occur "on screen" in adventure path.
If it's super important to you, make a demiplane with the timeless trait. You wont die of old age as long as you stay there.
Course, it wouldn't be terribly unlikely for some inevitables to collapse your pocket dimension and end you.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm just curious why this is so important to you? It's an aspect of the character that is unlikely to come up during the game.
And even if I were your GM, and I were generous enough to say "Yes you find something that will remove old age as a possible cause of death" I would probably still tell you, "That increases the likelihood the Pharasma or some Inevitable or even the great grandchild of someone you wronged in the past might end you...but we're not going to explore any of that in game so what happens to your character is still a mystery".
As with basically every player character I've ever created, I've always figured death from old age isn't ever (or at least incredibly rarely) coming up. All my character, good, evil or otherwise, made enemies along the way. Someone is likely out to get them for some reason, and isn't content to wait for old age to take me.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Nex along with Geb extended their lives through the use of arcane elixirs then used a demiplane (no idea why this would make him immortal)
Geb is a necromancer, so he has shortcuts that would likely not be available to players. Probably human sacrifices or something along those lines.
And even then he turned into a ghost via ritual suicide. Which might be a tactic admission that whatever he was doing didn't quite work for what he was aiming for (mostly stalking Nex).
|
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
But it will 100% have you go down an evil path to become immortal.
No it won't. It never has before. Old Mage Jatembe, for example, is NG and very much immortal. You can argue it's Mythic, but Evil? No.
Now, becoming undead, that's usually Evil, but immortal? Not so much.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
if you are so bothered you can just not look at the thread
That isn't quite how it works, but more importantly I'm not actually all that bothered, my replies are just the best way I can think of to help you settle on something that you aren't going to get sweeping community agreement, reliable canon methods or robust mechanical support on. I don't know what exactly you seek, but it doesn't seem you'll find it in the places and processes you're searching though. (At least not anytime soon.)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Most EASY methods to being immortal are evil. And the term "easy" is relative here.
Technically, being a lich only usually needs some research and the death of a few dozen people. You certainly don't need the vast wealth of an entire nation to just have a chance to get the sun orchid elixir. Now, admittedly, people will reasonably want to kill you for being a murderous abomination.
Of course, if there was an easy, non-ethically questionable method to become immortal... well.... someone would kill you for it. The sun orchid elixir is a relatively good example of this- the Thuvians don't use the elixir, and instead sell it at auction, because it was a concession to stop people from invading them for it.
Even if a method to immortality wasn't difficult to extract, cultivate, or concoct, it is pretty much physically impossible for supply to meet demand. It is like chewing gum in class- if you don't bring enough to share with everyone (read: millions of people), then you can't have it at all.
Locking it behind exceptional mastery of a craft, such as being a high level monk, is pretty much the only reasonable way to gate keep thing kind of thing. It is rare and nontransferable enough to be reasonable in setting.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I ... I don't know if I understand your point properly when you say that role-playing is about eventual godhood and ascension... I have never even once approached a Character of my own with that goal or ambition in mind myself so I think maybe I'm confused here.
Do you really only care about eventual immortality in your RP and PCs?
like can a level 20 wizard spend 2 casts of wish every day to become 1 day younger so in effect he would be aging backwards?
I don't think a level 10 spell has that kind of power, even a spell like Wish, Miracle, etc.
Let's take Time Stop as an example. This is one of the most powerful spells in the game, something that even Wish cannot replicate (at least, without significant drawbacks). And at best, it stops time for a total of 18 seconds. While the power of this ability is relative to what you can accomplish within those 18 seconds that the other entities cannot, the objective power of this kind of spell is that it only stops time for a relatively short period. At the apex of most every spellcaster in the game.
To expect Wish, Miracle, etc. to supersede that without drawbacks is both impossible and not something I'd expect any sane GM to allow.
To be clear, it's certainly an interesting thing to Wish for, and very common, too. I'm certain that, if someone was given an opportunity to Wish for something to come true, "Eternal Life/Youth" is probably one of the top 5 or 10 things that are requested (even if foolishly).
I mean, if this Wish, Miracle, etc. was meant to be perverted from a desire like this (to cease aging), you might stop aging (or reverse age if cast twice), but now everyone else is aging twice as fast (or a year, depending on if we do it by days) every time you did this. Living twice as long? Everything's dying twice as fast. Getting 2 days younger? Everyone else is now 2 years older in a matter of seconds. Things are gonna notice quick and rise up to strike you down for screwing with the balance of life and existence on the Material plane. Plenty of deities, servants, etc. gonna find out and do something about it. And if you burned 2+ 10th level spells, you will be significantly handicapped against a high level (or epic) foe. Meaning that if it does happen and it gets discovered, I don't think they will last too terribly long.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It's a fantasy of ultimate power, and a tendancy to identify so closely with one's character that their existence becomes an extension of one's own.
However since this is the rules forum, the only answer we can give the OP is that it's a subjective judgement call.
A wish spell can produce any one of the following effects.
- Duplicate any arcane spell of 9th level or lower.
- Duplicate any non-arcane spell of 7th level or lower.
- Produce any effect whose power level is in line with the above effects.
- Reverse certain effects that refer to the wish spell.Is becoming younger "in line with" the power of a 9th-level spell? I would argue that it isn't, and that magical longevity should be much harder to achieve. This position seems to be in line with Paizo's Golarion storyline, but at the end of the day, it's still a judgement call, and there is no true RAW answer to this question.
One side says you can live forever...
Another side says you can't...
Quite the dichotomy, yes?
Perhaps the upcoming Secrets of Magic sourcebook will have something- or it might not; we won't know until it comes out though. :)
I ... I don't know if I understand your point properly when you say that role-playing is about eventual godhood and ascension... I have never even once approached a Character of my own with that goal or ambition in mind myself so I think maybe I'm confused here.
Do you really only care about eventual immortality in your RP and PCs?
I'm currently GMing for a character that's the opposite, even. She used to be a god, but was slain by another and was reincarnated as a mortal. Now she has all these powerful beings telling her she needs to reclaim her rightful place for the universe to be set right, but she's come to like being mortal a lot more than being a god.
The "easiest" way to have an indefinite lifespan is repeated castings of the Reincarnate spell as you reach venerable age. The trick is that you need to repeatedly befriend spellcasters who can cast that spell and keep accumulating enough cash to pay for that spell as needed.
If it is character goal I would make a rare ritual for them to research. I would even allow stop gap measures like Wish stopping aging for 1d10 years with an accumulative - 1 per casting.
But RAW is GM's discretion.
Humbly,
Yawar
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, I'd 100% allow a variety of options for high level 'stop aging' stuff, including a Ritual of some sort, a 20th level Feat (that version would also do other, more mechanically relevant, stuff...I might have the Wizard version be time based and allow you to ignore the Slowed condition among other things, for example), I'm just pretty sure Wish alone doesn't do it.
An argument could be made that Miracle or Primal Phenomenon being associated with the Vital spell lists do a better job of this, but a lack of immortal Clerics argues that probably still doesn't work.
Yeah, I'd 100% allow a variety of options for high level 'stop aging' stuff, including a Ritual of some sort, a 20th level Feat (that version would also do other, more mechanically relevant, stuff...I might have the Wizard version be time based and allow you to ignore the Slowed condition among other things, for example), I'm just pretty sure Wish alone doesn't do it.
An argument could be made that Miracle or Primal Phenomenon being associated with the Vital spell lists do a better job of this, but a lack of immortal Clerics argues that probably still doesn't work.
I imagine most Gods don't want to try poking the bear that is Pharasma.
The plot point that Razmir is a 19th level wizard and can't manage to get immortality going is a big reason (to me) that anyone under level 20 definitely isn't achieving it, and that means anything open to characters under level 20 probably can't achieve it either.
So it would have to be something only available at 20th level.
And even then, we don't hear about a lot of high level characters (that aren't outsiders) hanging around for centuries.
Most anyone that we know of that has greatly extended their level has crossed into "greater than mortal" power.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
You can't use Remake to get a usable Sun Orchid Elixir back after drinking it (as Remake can't restore the uses of a limited use item) and Wish probably can't create a rare item out of thin air without it falling into the "You can try with wish but because it is beyond the power level of what is listed it might be dangerous or not work" category.
10th level spells not being able to remake/make the item that grants immortality sort of implies that using Wish can't reliably grant that effect, as the normal use of the spell is to duplicate 9th level spell effects or their equivalents.
I think your best bet is using divination magic to track down the one guy who has the formula to make Sun Orchid Elixir, then enchantment magic to compel him to give you the formula.
After that you have to spend a month making the elixir, but you only have to spend a month making it every 80 years of so, as you can reset your age to be 20 each time you drink it.
Basically, gaining immortality is an adventure in itself, not something you can just get by reaching a high level (which is how it should be).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Basically, gaining immortality is an adventure in itself, not something you can just get by reaching a high level (which is how it should be).
And that kind of adventure usually ends up with some moral like "friendship" or something instead. "The real immortality was the friends we made along the way".
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
but what about druids or monks? or the alchemist who got immortality by being level 20 etc...The plot point that Razmir is a 19th level wizard and can't manage to get immortality going is a big reason (to me) that anyone under level 20 definitely isn't achieving it, and that means anything open to characters under level 20 probably can't achieve it either.
So it would have to be something only available at 20th level.
And even then, we don't hear about a lot of high level characters (that aren't outsiders) hanging around for centuries.
Most anyone that we know of that has greatly extended their level has crossed into "greater than mortal" power.
I feel like the formerly explicit text that unaging monks and druids still pass away when 'their time has come' regardless the current vigour and vitality of their body explains why there these feats heretofore have not created a legion of mid-high level immortal kung fu artists and hippies.
This may change in the lore in the future. I speculate not.
Incidentally, I have long actually pictured that the monk's timeless body in particular doesn't so much cease the body from aging as it removes the physical penalties for aging, allowing for the old wise master monks who are spry and limber as a disciple in the prime of their life--rather than assume that the more powerful the master monk, the younger they likely look.