Hey all. I'm looking to theory some different improvised weapon builds and I want to see what all of y'all can come up with. I'm not great at building but I can see that maybe fighter would be good. For all the feats to take the one style line and using gloves of improvised might. But I'm sure there's more
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Shikigami style is just 3 feats, and you're likely looking at a two-handed weapon melee character; not otherwise feat-hungry. You don't need to be a fighter to get it, though that's an option. Barbarian, paladin, vigilante all work, or there's a makeshift scrapper rogue archetype or the hinyasi brawler. There's a monk archetype too tho' I'm not familiar with it. A slight variant on the iron caster should work mechanically and thematically - item mastery feats to get odd uses from magic items fit well with an improvised weapon master.
Is there anything you particularly want to do besides smacking dragons with barstools?
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I was originally going to focus my vivisectionist on it before deciding that (while funny) was not particularly good. But it got me thinking and I think the next character I play may be focused on improvised weapons because it seems fun and unusual
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Well I typed up a response hit submit and got 502 internal service error bad gateway.
So here goes again. The basic broken improvised weapon build is this: all 3 shikigami style feats, and a cheap 1,500gp metamagic rod gets you a +4 club that deals 3d6 damage as a level 5 character. Pick whatever class you feel like to go with it.
Other feats to consider are improvisational focus (weapon focus for improvised weapons) and improvisational mastery (improved crit and more size increase).
Other archetypes besides what avr listed include wildcat monk, monk of the open hand, and cad fighter.
If you are going for picking up the biggest improvised weapon you can find, consider going for vital strike chains so you can hit things with like a 12d8 chair.
There's also a magic item, the gloves of improvised might, which work like an amulet of mighty fists for improvised weapons. but you already mentioned that one
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Ooh all quite helpful. Thank you. That has given me quite a few ideas. Appreciated kind gentleperson
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OK. Here's a slayer who really likes Gorum but who never got the memo about fighting with real weapons.
Slayer talent 2: combat trick - shikigami style
3: shikigami mimicry
Slayer talent 4: ranger combat style (faithful (Gorum)) - power attack
5: shikigami manipulation
Slayer talent 6: RCS - vital strike
7: lunge
Slayer talent 8: rogue talent - slow reactions
9: staggering blow
Slayer talent 10: RCS - improved vital strike
Damage ASAP, then mobility with debuffs to enemies to help enable that. Not a lot of defences otherwise, true.
One of Scott Wilhelm's multiclass jobbies uses sledgehammers for lots of improvised damage too. I haven't seen him post in a week or so tho'.
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Oh that looks fun. I may very well steal that for my next character
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Since using and building around Improvised Weapons can be done relatively easily using any class... pick a class you actually want to play, loaded with fun features that have nothing to do with Improvised Weapons.
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The original idea was vivisectionist. But that shall not be the build anymore. Maybe bloodrager they're fun. Or maybe investigator
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Urban Bloodrager (Arcane Bloodline) is something I have always wanted to try. Throw in two levels of Arcane Duelist Bard, literally anywhere (but levels 9 & 10 work well), but they don't even have to be consecutive... just picking up Arcane Strike and Combat Casting more than anything (and saves and skills and some magics and Bard stuffs).
Bloodragers with Arcane Strike can take Blooded Arcane Strike... so it's just on without an action every time you rage. If you choose an odd level for the dip, you could get Arcane Strike and Blooded Arcane Strike at the same time.
Then get the Gloves of Arcane Striking. Now you do magical area affect damage every time you rage. These gloves are even better if you ever use, or have invested in, Aid Another.
Helpful Halfling, anyone?
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Ooh that's neat. I really love the arcane strike line of feats and playing up that could be real fun. Thanks
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Depending on how you prioritize things... how fast you want to get all the Shikigami feats, how vital Will saves are in your game, the nifty rage effects associated with the Urban/Arcane combination, etc... levels 5-6 or 9-10 are really good spots for a 2 level dip into Arcane Duelist.
Since the Gloves of Improvised Might are really expensive, it might make sense to wait until 9-10 so you can afford to add the effects of the Gloves of Arcane Striking at 1.5x their cost. Waiting until 9-10 for Arcane Strike/Blooded Arcane Strike is fine... your Urban/Arcane Bloodrage is in full swing, you have most if not all of your Improvised Weapon stuffs online, and generally Will saves aren't absolutely vital until about now anyways. Arcane Strike's bonus will be higher and more worth the investment at later levels, too.
Boring Human, for the boring Bonus Feat, take the Adopted trait (Halfling:Helpful), probably take Heart of the Fey for low-light vision?
Urban Bloodrager
1. Catch Off-Guard
1. Shikigami Style
3. Shikigami Mimicry
4. Eschew Materials
4. Arcane Bloodrage: Blur
5. Shikigami Manipulation
6. Combat Reflexes
7. feat
8. Arcane Bloodrage: Haste
Arcane Duelist Bard
9. Arcane Strike
9. Blooded Arcane Strike
10. Combat Casting
Could even take Combat Expertise @ 7, and Swift Aid @ 11 if you were really playing with the whole Aid Another thing... going back into Bloodrager would give you another Bloodline Feat @ 11, anyways, so it's not like you're wasting TOO much by being helpful.
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All noted. Thanks for all the help. I'm terrible at putting builds into motion. I now have one hell of a cool concept brewing with the crunch all sorted
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For the Urban/Arcane Bloodrager, it might be better to start as the Arcane Duelist Bard. Inspire Courage and use a Longspear for the first few levels.
Arcane Duelist Bard
1. Arcane Strike
1. Catch Off-Guard
1. Combat Reflexes
*retrain to Blooded Arcane Strike @8*
2. Combat Casting
Urban/Arcane Bloodrager
3. Shikigami Style
5. Shikigami Mimicry
6. Eschew Materials
6. Arcane Bloodrage: Blur
7. Shikigami Manipulation
8. Combat Reflexes
9. feat (Combat Expertise)
10. Arcane Bloodrage: Haste
11. Improved Initiative
11. feat (Swift Aid)
This puts the squishy levels up front, where it matters least. A +1 Inspire Courage is useful, and a Longspear + Combat Reflexes should get you through until RAGE. Bard gives you UMD so you don't have to waste a trait getting it to qualify for the Shikigami stuffs. And this is a lot more interesting first few levels than two levels of Bloodrager with Catch Off-Guard and Shikigami Style as your only feats.
At level 11, assuming Adopted and Magical Knack traits are taken, with the Gloves of Arcane Striking using Aid Another does a fantastic +6, or +3 as a swift action. Not too shabby...
Use Bard wands, pick up Magus spells via Adopted Magic, focus on battlefield control spells... you have Arcane Strike, Blur, and Haste immediately active every time you rage. The Gloves of Arcane Striking give you area affect damage. Aid Another is always an option, so you are never useless. Could take Bodyguard at 13, and make Aid Another even more useful.
With Flagbearer (@15?), a Dervisk Sikke, the Banner of Ancient Kings, and a freaking flagpole... you could still Inspire Courage halfway decent and use your Improvised Weapon stuffs, with reach. Lol.
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This character is really coming along. I like the sounds of that
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I'll have to look for my old notes on a character I built to recreate Wakka from FFX for the full build.
Quick breakdown is 3 levels of Aquanaut Fighter (Apply all single choice weapon feats to all piercing weapons and a swim speed equal to base land speed), and as many levels as you desire in Hinyasi brawler.
Feats:
>All 3 Shikigami feats (new standard of all Improvised builds
>Improvisational Focus for 'proficiency' and psuedo-Weapon Focus
>Improvised Weapon Mastery for 19-20/x2 crit
>Pick up Martial Focus for close weapons (Hinyasi treats improvised as close weapon)
>Now Ricochet Toss for ranged if you so desire
Optional: Advanced Weapon Training feat to grab Versatile Training for BAB replacing skill ranks in one of two sets All (Bluff, Intimidate) or Close (Sense Motive, Stealth)
Grab a 6 inch ball and start tossing.
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I'll have to look for my old notes on a character I built to recreate Wakka from FFX for the full build.
Quick breakdown is 3 levels of Aquanaut Fighter (Apply all single choice weapon feats to all piercing weapons and a swim speed equal to base land speed), and as many levels as you desire in Hinyasi brawler.
Feats:
>All 3 Shikigami feats (new standard of all Improvised builds
>Improvisational Focus for 'proficiency' and psuedo-Weapon Focus
>Improvised Weapon Mastery for 19-20/x2 crit
>Pick up Martial Focus for close weapons (Hinyasi treats improvised as close weapon)
>Now Ricochet Toss for ranged if you so desireOptional: Advanced Weapon Training feat to grab Versatile Training for BAB replacing skill ranks in one of two sets All (Bluff, Intimidate) or Close (Sense Motive, Stealth)
Grab a 6 inch ball and start tossing.
This is wonderful. I absolutely adore wakka
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Just had the idea for a Magus that fights with a hand keg (or really anything else that's one handed) and if I'm reading correctly all of the Magus stuff works with improvised weapons and from what I can tell there aren't many feats a Magus really needs so they won't be feat starved entirely
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Hinyasi brawler + shikigami may not actually work for the damage increase. Setting damage to your class unarmed strike damage may override the size increase of shikigami. Hinyasi still sort of works because unlike most other improvised weapon users they can do TWF effectively and get something akin to weapon training.
A magus would prefer a weapon with a better crit range - improvised is 20/x2 by default - but should still be workable. They don't actually get anything much out of improvised weapons though, it's just that their spell combat/spellstrike is good enough that they can take the decreased efficiency and still be useful.
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There is also such an unusual build option:
Human (FCB, Heart of fields)
Hinyasi Brawler 1/Armored Hulk Barbarian 14
22 Strength 16 Dexterity 14 Constitution 11 Intelligence 10 Wisdom 7 Charisma
Rage Powers: Smasher, Lesser Hurling, Hurling, Greater Hurling, Hurling Charge, Superstition, Body Bludgeon
Feats: Catch Off-guard, Throw Anything, Two Handed Thrower, Improved Grapple, Power Attack, Deadly Aim, Shikigami Style, Shikigami Mimicry, Shikigami Manipulation
Grab people and smash them into other people, regardless of if said other people are adjacent or across the room.
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Just had the idea for a Magus that fights with a hand keg (or really anything else that's one handed) and if I'm reading correctly all of the Magus stuff works with improvised weapons and from what I can tell there aren't many feats a Magus really needs so they won't be feat starved entirely
For one-handed, there is really not much going around using a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Eclipsed, Merciful, Murky, or Steam. A +4 magic weapon for the cost of 1500gp is just ridiculously cheap.
Kinda ironic that the by far best options for improvised weapons are about using a single item all career long (either sledge or metamagic rod)...
General warning: For anything that directly refers to "weapons" (e.g. Arcane Strike), clear that up with your GM beforehand whether they work with improvised weapons. I don't think your GM is likely to prevent abilities that are mainly about attacking, like spell combat/spellstrike, but abilities that directly affect or are based off the actual weapon, like Arcane Pool or abilities like Titan Mauler/Fighter's, might be a different story.
Hinyasi brawler + shikigami may not actually work for the damage increase. Setting damage to your class unarmed strike damage may override the size increase of shikigami.
Yes, RAW, Hinyasi is unable to profit from Shikigami Style, as the feats improve weapon damage, but the archetype doesn't use the weapon's damage at all (and you can't turn the archetype's ability off). Your GM might rule differently, so ask them if you're interested in Brawler, but the RAW are clear.
For the sake of completeness, I want to mention the Occultist archetype Extemporaneous Channeler for its ability to temporarily enchant improvised weapons (basically the Fighter Adv. Weapon Training "Warrior Spirit" but for improvised weapons).
As a swift action, even! I'm still not sure what happens when you use an Extemporaneous Channeler's Withdraw Focus ability to withdraw all remaining focus...
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Alright. So I said screw it and rebuilt my vivisectionist. DM ruled That potion glutton works with extracts so that's my first feat. Followed by shikigami style and I'll take the next two feats as my next two then improv. Focus. Any tips on what else I can do to make a melee alchemist (vivi) use improvised weapons better?
Is it a Ratfolk Beastmorph-Vivisectionist? If so, then Scurrying Swarmer and Mauler's Endurance.
It is not. The actual build is obitu pure Vivi. For story reasons. He's a bootlegger and lets a mushroom grow on him (tumor familiar) he's not optimal by any means but he will be flavorful