The Builds - The hypthetical double punishment build


Summoner Class


So this a theoretical build that KrispyXIV has referred to a few times i am going to take people through it and see how it works,

So for this build you will ideally play an Ancient Elf this gives you two things you want early access to the champion archetype and longsword proficiency through elven weapons feat and a phantom eisolon.

I recommend starting stats of 16 str 12 Dex, 10con, 12 int, 16 cha, 12 wis

At 2nd level grab the class feat you want.
At 3rd level you are going to want the shield block general feat, at 4th level the healing touch champion power is good and at 6th level the champion reaction feat is why you went down this path. You now have everything you need from champion and your double punishment. If an enemy attacks you they will punished by your eidolon if they attack your eidolon they will be punished by you.

At 8th level grab the bastion class feat at 10th grab the quick shield block feat and now tencinally you can shield block whilst your ally punishes, technically because its one trigger but hey your two creatures using two reactions so I vote it works.

So is this set up strong, not amazingly its functional and could be bit of fun, your still going to be pretty vunerable to area effects and stuff like that.

So has anyone tried the double punisher how was it and has anyone else found a surprisingly cool build for the odd one out/ugly ducking summoner ?

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Do summoners get two reactions? (1 for Eidolon, 1 more summoner)?


They do with quick shield block.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Thanks for putting this together!

My character for the campaign im running was too established to do something like this myself, so I'd be psyked if anyone was able to test this in practical scenarios.

I don't think its going to put a Champion out of business directly due to Champions superior AC, but based on my experiences thus far both Champion Reaction and Shield Block (Sturdy shield) are huge survivability enhancers, and should allow even a Summoner to live safely on the front lines.

And an Eidolon will outdamage a Champion for most levels (the part of the characters life where accuracy is on par) if enemies choose not to pressure you and allow you to Boost and swing with the Eidolon... but Reactive Shield and Champions reaction makes its difficult to ever truly catch you "undefended".


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A 10 Con Elf in the front lines is a non-starter for me. It's like walking into combat injured. Also not a fan of all that investment for a mediocre Strike for the Summoner.

I do like the premise of a Summoner building up their Reactions.
Odds are when we see the MCD Summoner, a Fighter or Champion will be a better chassis for this.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Castilliano wrote:


Odds are when we see the MCD Summoner, a Fighter or Champion will be a better chassis for this.

I'm not expecting a terribly viable Eidolon out of the multiclass, if it gets one at all.

Even if it gets one, I expect its proficiency progression to be tied to feats and to resemble the multiclass progression for other martial multiclasses which are... mediocre at best.

That said, I'm confused where you're seeing a mediocre strike for the Summoner... are you considering the Paladin reaction?

If so, the damage reduction is the primary benefit of that, not the strike, and totally worth it on its own.

I personally think the Paladin reaction is the worst of the three, as the Redeemer reaction is completely crippling and the Liberator one is free steps and potentially saves.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
KrispyXIV wrote:
Castilliano wrote:


Odds are when we see the MCD Summoner, a Fighter or Champion will be a better chassis for this.

I'm not expecting a terribly viable Eidolon out of the multiclass, if it gets one at all.

Even if it gets one, I expect its proficiency progression to be tied to feats and to resemble the multiclass progression for other martial multiclasses which are... mediocre at best.

That said, I'm confused where you're seeing a mediocre strike for the Summoner... are you considering the Paladin reaction?

If so, the damage reduction is the primary benefit of that, not the strike, and totally worth it on its own.

I personally think the Paladin reaction is the worst of the three, as the Redeemer reaction is completely crippling and the Liberator one is free steps and potentially saves.

If multiclass summoner doesn't get an Eidolon, what would they get??? Nothing lol.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Unless of course the multiclass IS the synthesis. Id totally be down with that.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Verzen wrote:


If multiclass summoner doesn't get an Eidolon, what would they get??? Nothing lol.

Most Dedications for spellcasters provide like, two cantrips right?

And then benefits of class feats half your level or level -4 or 5 spellcasting?

I have no idea what the Summoner Dedication is going to look like, but im holding my expectations to well below the level of a viable combat Eidolon.

I'm expecting something close to or slightly behind Beastmaster honestly.


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The example build is built for offense, 16 Str & a feat for longsword.
And it's called the "double punishment build", so implies two sources of punishment. If it's actually the "Summoner protects their Eidelon build" then it's doing it at the cost of making the Summoner vulnerable (+1 AC from heavy armor doesn't make up for 10 Con). Being near enough melee to use the Champion's Reaction isn't wise either.

As others have noted, the MCD Summoner kind of has to get an Eidelon, even if not w/ the MCD only. I'd expect the MC Eidelon to need many feats to remain viable, but we're comparing it to a build that's using all but its 2nd level feat though 10th (and likely another later for Expert Armor).

Elf is only giving Ancient Elf and little more, so rather than that I'd go w/ another race, one which didn't force Int & hamper Con.


I built something very similar for my level 8 playtest, but for character reasons went with redeemer and invested in Intelligence. I didn't need longsword proficiency, so I took Elven Verve instead to avoid being slowed.


Its just me I can't play something which doesn't have the capability to be very offensive. Is why i haven't touched the alchemist.

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