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How does the Summoner/Eidolon pairing act in Exploration mode?
Do they perform their actions individually to allow two different exploration activities? Both do the same but roll twice? Just treat them as one character?
If "treat as one character" is the baseline, should thre be a feat to enable one of the other options?
It feels like it should be easier to do multiple actions while exploring with two semi-independant characters than for a single one, but I'm not sure how it should manifest.
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I dont know that its exactly clear how companions work during exploration honestly.
That said, action sharing mechanics really only apply to encounter mode - actions in general arent really supposed to be precisely tracked during exploration. That means I dont think its intended that you're supposed to have to spend your action directing your companion...
Generally, the paradigm during exploration is that you arent "always on" and using your maximum action allotment, limited to one non-moving around action on a repeated basis. If for a Summoner that action were "Act Together", both the Summmoner and Eidolon could essentially do their own thing.
I'd allow both to choose their own Exploration mode.
If they had Tandem Stride, there'd be no question at all about them having the capacity for this - but I'm not in favor of requiring this, as I dont think its in any way intended that your Eidolon isn't mostly an independent creature outside of encounter mode.
On paper, all companions can have an Exploration activity. The thing is: Most companions are unable to perform any of them. Most ask for a certain level of intelligence (Search for traps, Detect Magic) or communication (Scout).
The Eidolon doesn't have these limitations and as such can perform an Exploration Activity at the same time the Summoner performs his.
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On paper, all companions can have an Exploration activity. The thing is: Most companions are unable to perform any of them. Most ask for a certain level of intelligence (Search for traps, Detect Magic) or communication (Scout).
The Eidolon doesn't have these limitations and as such can perform an Exploration Activity at the same time the Summoner performs his.
This is how I ruled it in my game this weekend. However the question came up, which exploration mode do you use for initiative? I ruled on the fly to have the Summoner player pick the one they preferred to keep the game moving.
In this case though, the Eidolon was keeping out of sight (stealth) and the Summoner was doing the basic searching (perception). They chose to use stealth.
Note that the entirely fluff blurb in the class description (which is NOT rules) for "While Exploring..." does indicate that you and your Eidolon explore together, which may indicate that the intent is not for each to get their own activity.
This is probably something that needs at least a sidebar to clarify, if not something in the Eidolon rules text.
Yes, there's really a big issue about initiative with the Summoner. Normally, the Eidolon being some kind of minion, the Summoner should always be the one rolling initiative. Thing is, sometimes, the Eidolon can be the only one in a fight and in these cases can act without issue so he must be able to roll initiative. But rolling Perception for the Summoner when he is not even in the room is quite ridiculous.
Which implies that the Summoner has advantage on initiative given that both halves would make the roll.
Note the rule of thumb for Exploration activities:
One action per turn - fine (10 actions per minute)
Two actions per turn - fatiguing (20 actions per minute)
Three actions per turn - not possible The Summoner can easily use Act Together to Stride + Stride traveling at normal speed. They can also do something else with their second action, such as Scouting. But trying to do that and have the Eidolon do an action would fall under the third action.
Trying to do two exploration activities would like require alternating Stride + Stride with Activity + Activity. This is equivalent to any other character moving at a slow speed and alternative between Stride and another activity.
However, it means the Summoner+Eidolon is fundamentally slower than a party that is going on the two-action paradigm. They can't match Hustling (Stride+Stride), and if they want to keep up with something like Stride+Raise Shield from the Champion, only one of them can do an Exploration activity at a time.
At least, going by the rule of thumb for creating Exploration activities. So in essence:
Full travel speed, no effects, fine
Half travel speed, 2 effects, fine
Full travel speed, one effect, fatiguing
Hustling, impossible (unless mounted)
The rules about action sharing and limitations are just combat rules. Outside combat, the Summoner and the Eidolon each have 3 actions they use the way they want.
Otherwise, all pet users wouldn't be able to use Exploration activities, which would be a really problem.
While the CRB doesn't say this directly, it seems to imply that one action per round is spent Striding, and that you become fatigued if you use up all your actions each round.
All this would imply that the 4th level Tandem Move feat, which on its surface only affects movement in combat, could affect whether the summoner and eidolon could perform separate activities in Exploration Mode.
Has anyone suggested removing the Tandem Move feat and making it an automatic class ability?
Note the rule of thumb for Exploration activities:
One action per turn - fine (10 actions per minute)
Two actions per turn - fatiguing (20 actions per minute)
Three actions per turn - not possible ...
The rules about action sharing and limitations are just combat rules. Outside combat, the Summoner and the Eidolon each have 3 actions they use the way they want.
Otherwise, all pet users wouldn't be able to use Exploration activities, which would be a really problem.
The important thing is the actions per minute. A minion user can alternate actions to give their minion an exploration activity while doing one themselves (Stride>Activity>Stride>Command). They still can do it, but like the Eidolon it requires them to move at a lower percentage of their travel speed. It's actually easier for a minion.
It doesn't require giving each minion 3 full actions. In fact, outside of combat no one generally is using 3 full actions per turn.
You realize what you say means a Druid cannot just walk at full speed with his wolf next to him. You mix combat rules and in-game reality. The wolf follows without needing commands. The Eidolon makes an Exploration Activity without the Summoner to spend a single action. They are sentient beings able to follow a simple task without constant control.
Exploration is not downtime. It is used in situations that are intended to be tense, but not fall under combat timing.
Walking with an animal companion in such conditions is fatiguing. This isn't a leisurely stroll around the park. It is moving through an unknown dungeon while trying to keep you animal companion from wandering off or stumbling into a trap.
I don't think it breaks verisimilitude in such situations. If you let your minion wander by itself, you do not also gain control over its actions. They do what they want. That isn't what we are talking about here.
In this scenario, you are actively leading it through hostile territory. These are scenarios where you wouldn't just let your animal companion wander according to its instincts. Controlling its actions comes at the cost of being fatigued or going closer.
And in particular, this only applies to young and comparatively less trained animal companions. Adult animal companions have no issues following closely along.
This all works entirely within the rules suggested for creating new exploration activities.
You're changing the way the world behave to follow the rules.
So, now, explain me what happens, in world, when someone unconscious critically succeed at a Reflex save against a Fireball aimed at his square where there is no obstacle to the blast?An Animal Companion doesn't need constant supervision to just follow his master. It's the first lesson you teach to anyone who wants to train a dog, I suppose all Druids teach that to their companion, so they can perform an Exploration activity with their companion.
An Animal Companion doesn't need constant supervision to just follow his master. It's the first lesson you teach to anyone who wants to train a dog, I suppose all Druids teach that to their companion, so they can perform an Exploration activity with their companion.They need constant supervision to only follow their master when they are walking around in dangerous territory and are Young Animal Companions. This isn't a stroll through the dog park. This is the equivalent of a bomb-sniffing dog doing its job, and a puppy just learning the ropes at that. Mature Animal Companions and independent familiars literally do get an action, making this a non-issue.
And for comparison, bomb-sniffing dogs do have supervision.
As I said, this doesn't strain my immersion at all. If you want an animal to do a specific task while avoiding traps and hazards and being ready to fight at any moment, it requires either:
intense mental focus
slowing down
additional training (Mature Animal Companion) If there is no chance of danger, none of this applies and the downtime frame of mind dominates. But exploration is not nearly so relaxed.
So, you forbid pet owners to perform Exploration activities before their pet are able to have actions on their own in combat?
Also, one action to Stride each round is not enough to follow the party. So, you forbid pet owners to use Exploration activities during their entire carreer?And if you have both an Eidolon and an Animal Companion, you need to move one, then the other, then one, then the other if you don't want to end up fatigued?
No, noone is doing that. Everyone assumes pet have a mind of their own, and they can follow their master without constant supervision.
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A typical non-fatiguing exploration tactic averages out to "about one action per round" (not that you are actually counting exploration by rounds, but that's the abstraction). So like for searching when you don't slow down to catch everything, you move at half Speed because it's like Round 1: Stride, Round 2: Seek, Round 3: Stride, Round 4: Seek, etc. Act Together lets both of you perform one action, so you should also both be able to perform a non-fatiguing exploration activity with no problem. But only one of you could be performing a fatiguing explo activity.
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A typical non-fatiguing exploration tactic averages out to "about one action per round" (not that you are actually counting exploration by rounds, but that's the abstraction). So like for searching when you don't slow down to catch everything, you move at half Speed because it's like Round 1: Stride, Round 2: Seek, Round 3: Stride, Round 4: Seek, etc. Act Together lets both of you perform one action, so you should also both be able to perform a non-fatiguing exploration activity with no problem. But only one of you could be performing a fatiguing explo activity.
Thanks for the clarification.
Does Tandem Stride change the math on this, in your view?
If it does, can that be clarified in the ability?
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Caveat: Exploration mode does not really benefit from nitty-gritty analysis of a round-by-round like encounter mode, it's meant to be an abstraction.
Caveat out of the way, here's my personal, not official, ruling that attempts to use the guidelines of explo activities:
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A typical non-fatiguing exploration tactic averages out to "about one action per round" (not that you are actually counting exploration by rounds, but that's the abstraction). So like for searching when you don't slow down to catch everything, you move at half Speed because it's like Round 1: Stride, Round 2: Seek, Round 3: Stride, Round 4: Seek, etc. Act Together lets both of you perform one action, so you should also both be able to perform a non-fatiguing exploration activity with no problem. But only one of you could be performing a fatiguing explo activity.
This makes sense, thank you Mark. So, it sounds like allowing the Eidolon to "Avoid Notice" and the Summoner to "Track" is possible. Then the question comes, would they roll Stealth or Survival for Initiative?
When a similar question came up at my table, I just ruled that either was fine so had the player choose. Curious on your thoughts on that.
If the answer to the above is to choose I have another question. If they chose to roll stealth, would they use the Eidolon's modifier (since it was the one avoiding notice) or the Summoner's stealth modifier?
While boring, session one with Summoner says there ain't nothing wrong at all with Search x2.
Could also have gone for Shield Cantrip on the Eidolon for exploration, but we were often on the offensive.
This makes sense, thank you Mark. So, it sounds like allowing the Eidolon to "Avoid Notice" and the Summoner to "Track" is possible. Then the question comes, would they roll Stealth or Survival for Initiative?
When a similar question came up at my table, I just ruled that either was fine so had the player choose. Curious on your thoughts on that.
This makes sense to me as they both possess a constant telepathic connection. Anything the eidolon is aware of the summoner is aware of, and vice versa.