Eidolon stats should not start at 16. They should start at 17 or the lvl 20 stat increase is pretty much a waste of time.
Ability Boosts: At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, you boost four different ability scores. You can use these ability boosts to increase your ability scores above 18. Boosting an ability score increases it by 1 if it’s already 18 or above, or by 2 if it starts out below 18. Your eidolon also gets four ability boosts at these levels. The eidolon’s ability boosts follow the same rules as yours.
With the current array your final stats at lvl 20 would look like the following assuming boosting all physical stats and wisdom.
Str 21, Dex 21, Con 21, Int 8, Wis 19, Cha 10
5th: +2 Str, Dex, Con, Wis.
10th: +1 Str, Dex, Con. +2 Wis.
15th: +1 Str, Dex, Con. +2 Wis.
20th: +1 Str, Dex, Con, Wis.
The lvl 20th ability boost feels like a complete waste with. Even if for some reason you decide to focus on Charisma or Intelligence in lieu of your physical stats, you will still end up with wasted points on at least two other stats. Hitting lvl 20 should never feel like you wasted a bonus.
The starting stat array should look like the following:
Str 17, Dex 17, Con 17, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 10
This would allow optimizers to ensure their lvl 20 ability boost wasn't wasted, while still allowing those who want to to focus on some other aspect of the eidolon like making them smarter or more charismatic.
It would also make the Eidolon feel more spectacular with all 22s for their physical statistics.
Regardless, it feels terrible to hit lvl 20 and have something like an ability boost feel wasted.
Or you could instead just put a few points into cha or int for the eidolon earlier. And reach several 20s
Level 5 +2 str,+2 dex, +2 con, +2 Wis
Level 10 +1 str,+1 dex,+1 con, +2 wis
Level 15 +1 str,+1 dex,+2 cha, +2 wis
Level 20 +1 con,+2 cha,+2 wis, +2 int.
I would rather see something like
16,16,14,10,14,10
Or even
16,16,14,10,12,10
So the mistake of investing everything into str,dex,con is a bit mitigated.
Or actually variety per eidolon instead.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, you're not obligated to do those four stats every time. In fact, I'm not sure getting Con above 18 is really worth it, given the lack of it providing HP.
But there's little benefit to raising Int right now. You can intimidate with Cha, but Int? Getting to 12 might get you a language (I'm a little unclear on that), but it does very little else for an Eidolon.
Really, if we're to have modular stat ups, what we need is either lesser costs on stats that are worth less, or some benefit to make them worth an equal amount. The former is unlikely, but something for the latter seems doable. That'd make things a real choice.
Yeah, you're not obligated to do those four stats every time. In fact, I'm not sure getting Con above 18 is really worth it, given the lack of it providing HP.
But there's little benefit to raising Int right now. You can intimidate with Cha, but Int? Getting to 12 might get you a language (I'm a little unclear on that), but it does very little else for an Eidolon.
Really, if we're to have modular stat ups, what we need is either lesser costs on stats that are worth less, or some benefit to make them worth an equal amount. The former is unlikely, but something for the latter seems doable. That'd make things a real choice.
Cha has quite a few uses(increases inate dc, intimidate and similar abilities)
But int right now does not do anything, maybe the eidolon should get some small abilities that trigger off int instead of just for now recall knowledge.
Staring with 16s is a bad idea given the way ability boosts work even if they make a stat array at some point that is good for a caster eidolon. If at some point they want to build an option for a casting or skill eidolon, they should reconfigure the array to start with a 17 charisma and Intelligence as well to ensure the summoner can maximize the eidolon's spellcasting and intel-based stat.
Either they move the stat array so the ability boosts don't feel wasted at 20 or most optimizing groups will house rule this while many will feel wasted stat points at 20 and avoid the class altogether.
It's bad design to force people to throw a wasted ability boost into intel or charisma for a class that is already charisma based and can use it's own action to intimidate or bon mot.
The summoner uses charisma for it's spellcasting statistic. Which means they will likely already be boosting charisma to use charisma based skills.
The eidolon is the summoner's primary form of combat. It should be focused on combat.
Con is good for fortitude saves, which are quite common with poison, stink auras, negative energy attacks, cold breath weaopons, and the like.
There should be very few wasted abilities on the eidolon. A lvl 20 ability boost should not be wasted boosting its intelligence to 10 or 12 versus boosting a combat stat to 22. The eidolon is not meant to fill in or replace an intel-based character and that should not at all be a forced option to not waste an ability boost.
As I stated earlier, I will house rule this as I think it is incredibly bad design to have a character hit lvl 20 and have a major milestone like that feel like a waste in any way.
Staring with 16s is a bad idea given the way ability boosts work even if they make a stat array at some point that is good for a caster eidolon. If at some point they want to build an option for a casting or skill eidolon, they should reconfigure the array to start with a 17 charisma and Intelligence as well to ensure the summoner can maximize the eidolon's spellcasting and intel-based stat.
Either they move the stat array so the ability boosts don't feel wasted at 20 or most optimizing groups will house rule this while many will feel wasted stat points at 20 and avoid the class altogether.
It's bad design to force people to throw a wasted ability boost into intel or charisma for a class that is already charisma based and can use it's own action to intimidate or bon mot.
The summoner uses charisma for it's spellcasting statistic. Which means they will likely already be boosting charisma to use charisma based skills.
The eidolon is the summoner's primary form of combat. It should be focused on combat.
Con is good for fortitude saves, which are quite common with poison, stink auras, negative energy attacks, cold breath weaopons, and the like.
There should be very few wasted abilities on the eidolon. A lvl 20 ability boost should not be wasted boosting its intelligence to 10 or 12 versus boosting a combat stat to 22.
As I stated earlier, I will house rule this as I think it is incredibly bad design to have a character hit lvl 20 and have a major milestone like that feel like a waste in any way.
Getting one stat to 22 would be indeed nice but really dex and con only get you an extra point in a saving throw. Maybe some eidolons should get one 18 stat(main attack stat or casting stat if there's an random casting eidolon) and some benefit for other stats like cha/int/wis so that it's worth to invest into them instead.
Also shouldn't the eidolon benefit at least a bit from skills? Not a lot of them but like maybe 3 master and I dunno like 1-3 expert?
Maybe int should get you an auto increasing skill on the eidolon(trained level 5, expert at 10 master 15, legendary level 20)
Getting one stat to 22 would be indeed nice but really dex and con only get you an extra point in a saving throw. Maybe some eidolons should get one 18 stat(main attack stat or casting stat if there's an random casting eidolon) and some benefit for other stats like cha/int/wis so that it's worth to invest into them instead.Staring with 16s is a bad idea given the way ability boosts work even if they make a stat array at some point that is good for a caster eidolon. If at some point they want to build an option for a casting or skill eidolon, they should reconfigure the array to start with a 17 charisma and Intelligence as well to ensure the summoner can maximize the eidolon's spellcasting and intel-based stat.
Either they move the stat array so the ability boosts don't feel wasted at 20 or most optimizing groups will house rule this while many will feel wasted stat points at 20 and avoid the class altogether.
It's bad design to force people to throw a wasted ability boost into intel or charisma for a class that is already charisma based and can use it's own action to intimidate or bon mot.
The summoner uses charisma for it's spellcasting statistic. Which means they will likely already be boosting charisma to use charisma based skills.
The eidolon is the summoner's primary form of combat. It should be focused on combat.
Con is good for fortitude saves, which are quite common with poison, stink auras, negative energy attacks, cold breath weaopons, and the like.
There should be very few wasted abilities on the eidolon. A lvl 20 ability boost should not be wasted boosting its intelligence to 10 or 12 versus boosting a combat stat to 22.
As I stated earlier, I will house rule this as I think it is incredibly bad design to have a character hit lvl 20 and have a major milestone like that feel like a waste in any way.
Why would your AC not increase from Dex? The eidolon gets your item bonus, but not the limitation on +5 dex as near as I can tell.
+1 con is better on fort saves, which are important given the shared hit point pool and effects.
Your eidolon may occasionally do some extra stuff, but he's primarily there for combat. It's what you do as a summoner.
Extra intel don't do much. And the summoner already has charisma as his primary stat, so the eidolon will never have a charisma to use charisma based stats better than the summoner.
I'd even be happy if they just got rid of the character like ability boosts and gave them an array like an animal companion with a slotted increases like an animal companion. That would take all the concern away of wasted ability boost points.
Just start them off:
Str: +3 Dex: +3 Con: +3 Int: -2 Wis: +1 Cha 0
Then let you customize the stat array a bit as you level than using ability boosts. That would also be a good way to do it.
Why would your AC not increase from Dex? The eidolon gets your item bonus, but not the limitation on...Getting one stat to 22 would be indeed nice but really dex and con only get you an extra point in a saving throw. Maybe some eidolons should get one 18 stat(main attack stat or casting stat if there's an random casting eidolon) and some benefit for other stats like cha/int/wis so that it's worth to invest into them instead.Staring with 16s is a bad idea given the way ability boosts work even if they make a stat array at some point that is good for a caster eidolon. If at some point they want to build an option for a casting or skill eidolon, they should reconfigure the array to start with a 17 charisma and Intelligence as well to ensure the summoner can maximize the eidolon's spellcasting and intel-based stat.
Either they move the stat array so the ability boosts don't feel wasted at 20 or most optimizing groups will house rule this while many will feel wasted stat points at 20 and avoid the class altogether.
It's bad design to force people to throw a wasted ability boost into intel or charisma for a class that is already charisma based and can use it's own action to intimidate or bon mot.
The summoner uses charisma for it's spellcasting statistic. Which means they will likely already be boosting charisma to use charisma based skills.
The eidolon is the summoner's primary form of combat. It should be focused on combat.
Con is good for fortitude saves, which are quite common with poison, stink auras, negative energy attacks, cold breath weaopons, and the like.
There should be very few wasted abilities on the eidolon. A lvl 20 ability boost should not be wasted boosting its intelligence to 10 or 12 versus boosting a combat stat to 22.
As I stated earlier, I will house rule this as I think it is incredibly bad design to have a character hit lvl 20 and have a major milestone like that feel like a waste in any way.
Edit: They do gain your skills just noticed that was under skills on eidolon.
Well so int does do something for your eidolon as it can recall knowledge and use other things.
Still not as worth as cha or wis.
...Why would your AC not increase from Dex? The eidolon gets yourGetting one stat to 22 would be indeed nice but really dex and con only get you an extra point in a saving throw. Maybe some eidolons should get one 18 stat(main attack stat or casting stat if there's an random casting eidolon) and some benefit for other stats like cha/int/wis so that it's worth to invest into them instead.Staring with 16s is a bad idea given the way ability boosts work even if they make a stat array at some point that is good for a caster eidolon. If at some point they want to build an option for a casting or skill eidolon, they should reconfigure the array to start with a 17 charisma and Intelligence as well to ensure the summoner can maximize the eidolon's spellcasting and intel-based stat.
Either they move the stat array so the ability boosts don't feel wasted at 20 or most optimizing groups will house rule this while many will feel wasted stat points at 20 and avoid the class altogether.
It's bad design to force people to throw a wasted ability boost into intel or charisma for a class that is already charisma based and can use it's own action to intimidate or bon mot.
The summoner uses charisma for it's spellcasting statistic. Which means they will likely already be boosting charisma to use charisma based skills.
The eidolon is the summoner's primary form of combat. It should be focused on combat.
Con is good for fortitude saves, which are quite common with poison, stink auras, negative energy attacks, cold breath weaopons, and the like.
There should be very few wasted abilities on the eidolon. A lvl 20 ability boost should not be wasted boosting its intelligence to 10 or 12 versus boosting a combat stat to 22.
As I stated earlier, I will house rule this as I think it is incredibly bad design to have a character hit lvl 20 and have a major milestone like that feel like a waste in any way.
You don't need them to do Recall Knowledge. You can use your power to gain their senses, then use your own intel or ability to recall knowledge or deduce something.
Edit: They do gain your skills just noticed that was under skills on eidolon.
Well so int does do something for your eidolon as it can recall knowledge and use other things.
Still not as worth as cha or wis.
Yeah. It makes the 'Dual Studies' feat (level 1). Really weird. It specifies you each get a trained skill.
But going back to the general rule, it can use yours... So effective both get one of the skills, and then the Eidolon gets a different skill that the Summoner can't use (without learning it personally).
@Deriven- the benefit is they can roll separately. You're recalling your knowledge and the Eidolon is recalling theirs. Since you're in constant telepathic contact, even when unmanifested, any purely mental skill is eligible to be rolled for each creature.
I think I should point something : [16, 16, 16, 8, 12, 10] is a stat array that a non-summoner can have at level 1, that let the eidolon be good at either str attacks or dex attacks and gives them good fortitude save (must have for melee character). I think this is why they gave these stats although it seems they didn't think about the level 20 boost.
Maybe we should get to customise our eidolon stat array at level 1 and give the eidolon some abilities or evolution feats that scale with less used stats...
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have no idea how you'd plot it out though given how much the eidolon seems to depend on its Dex stat for its AC--much more so than any other martial, which the eidolon is--since it can't use armor.
This isn't obligatory, though. An option for bonus AC on low Dex Eidolons on par with Medium Armor or so is entirely doable mechanically (possibly as a Feat). It would just need to be done.
I mean, Mountain Stance exists for Monks, something similar for Eidolons but without the attack or need for a Stance seems very possible.
|
I'll note that not leveling up cleanly at 20 means that they do get a +1 at 15. That isn't as silly as it sounds, because it won't be a problem until level 20 exactly, a small portion of the Eidolon's game time.
If you stagger not increasing STR, DEX, CON, and WIS, it's possible to get the following stat arrays for the eidolon's presented (assuming you ignore INT):
Angel or Beast
STR 20, DEX 20, CON 20, INT 8, WIS 18, CHA 18
Devotion Phantom or Dragon:
STR 20, DEX 20, CON 20, INT 10, WIS 18, CHA 16
OR
STR 20, DEX 20, CON 20, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 18
OR
STR 20, DEX 20, CON 18, INT 10, WIS 18, CHA 18
There doesn't seem to be much reason, besides Dual Studies, to boost Intelligence. Charisma isn't used by the Eidolon for Spell Casting since it uses your Spell DC and Attack Modifier but could still let it use social skills. The level 20 feat, Eidolon's Avatar, appears to let your Eidolon make friends and have it benefit you should you use the Commune ritual, so having your Eidolon be good at making friends could potentially benefit you, if your GM is so kind. The only downsides to this is that only one of the stats will reach 20 (or 18) by level 15 and the rest will hit their cap at level 20.