Kensai Magus and Unhindering Shield

[tearnImale]

Would using unhindering shield negate a kensai's canny defense feature? I believe it would work, although I wanted to get confirmation.

Unhindering Shield
You still gain a buckler’s bonus to AC even if you use your shield hand for some other purpose. When you wield a buckler, your shield hand is considered free for the purposes of casting spells, wielding weapons, and using any other abilities that require you to have a free hand or interact with your shield, such as the swashbuckler’s precise strike deed or the Weapon Finesse feat.
Special: A monk with this feat is not considered to be using a shield for the purposes of his AC bonus, fast movement, or flurry of blows.

Canny Defense Feature
When wearing light or no armor and not using a shield, a [kensai] adds 1 point of Intelligence bonus (if any) per [kensai] class level as a dodge bonus to her Armor Class while wielding [her chosen weapon]. If a [kensai] is caught flat-footed or otherwise denied her Dexterity bonus, she also loses this bonus.

[CBDunkerson]

Yes, this combination should work.

[pad300]

I disagree with CBDunkerson, RAW, this doesn't work. Canny Defense specfically requires not using a shield, not just having a free hand. Unhindering Shield only specifically calls out the Monk class as " not considered to be using a shield for the purposes of his AC bonus, fast movement, or flurry of blows." (Not to mention Canny Defense is not mentioned in that sentence).

Unhindering shield will work with a normal magus's casting while wielding a weapon abilities that require a free hand; "your shield hand is considered free for the purposes of casting spells, wielding weapons, and using any other abilities that require you to have a free hand or interact with your shield".

Mind you, in a home game, ask your GM.

[avr]

I'm not sure it works by RAW, the kensai ability doesn't care how many free hands you have, only whether you're using a shield. If you've got a buckler on one arm and the other is unused entirely then canny defence still doesn't kick in.

OTOH I agree with CBDunkerson that it should work.

[Cavall]

"To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler"

Seems to me the ability specifically called out by the feat says "hey you can't use a shield here either but this feat says its ok"

If that's got the same wording I'd say they had magus in mind. Works, in my opinion.

[Stephen Ede]

The note in Unhindered Shield that a Monk doesn't count as using a Shield.

Given the huge range of Pathfinder options I don't think you can expect rules writers to explicitly cover every case.

Because Unhindered Shield does explicitly say that you count as not using a Shield for all cases where this would be relevant. But it doesn't say it only applies to Monks as well.
So by RAW I think you can say maybe.

I'm pretty sure if asked the Designer would probably say "yes, it does apply to similar class features as not using a Shield".

[Derklord]

The relevant sentence in Unhindering shield can be condensed to this: "When you wield a buckler, your shield hand is considered free for the purposes of (...) using any other abilities that (...) interact with your shield".

I see no other possible meaning of this condensed sentence except that you're not considered holding a shield. It specifically calls out class features interacting with your shield, and Canny Defense is exactly such a class feature.

pad300 wrote:

I disagree with CBDunkerson, RAW, this doesn't work. Canny Defense specfically requires not using a shield, not just having a free hand.

Weapon Finesse, one of the two examples (and the only one that makes sense), uses the wording "If you carry a shield", it doesn't care about the free hand either. If Unhindering Shield does affect Weapon Finesse, it must make the user of the feat count as not carrying a shield, and if it does that, Canny Defense's "not using a shield" must be fulfilled, too (you can't use a shield you don't carry).

Yes, the feat is not well written. I actually presume that either the author altered it mid-writing or the editor changed it, because talking about free hand when using a buckler doesn't make much sense, as a buckler explicitly doesn't occupy the hand. Precise Strike already works when using a buckler, the existince of that as a example only makes sense if the feat was originally intended for other shields.
But still, going by the idom of "feats do what they say they do", Unhindering Shield does allow a Kensai to use a buckler without the Canny Dodge ability turning off.