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Really hmm where did I get 10 minutes from. Oh well I'm houseruling a lot of this stuff anyway from what I can see if I'm playing a game so that's not really an issue thanks though.
Interesting idea on the drift engine the only issue is that it doesn't matter if your thrusters are Mk 2 or Mk 12 with that they don't affect your travel. Convetional Thrusters 1d6 + 2 (I think), drift engine 1d6, drift engine 5 1d6/5 not affected by thrusters at all.
You could always just get rid of the drift and substitute Warp Engines or Hyperspace like Star Trek or Star Wars.
Faster than light travel is less about mechanics and more about setting tone in Starfinder, in my opinion.
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You could always just get rid of the drift and substitute Warp Engines or Hyperspace like Star Trek or Star Wars.
Faster than light travel is less about mechanics and more about setting tone in Starfinder, in my opinion.
That is where I'm thinking of going with the warp being slower over longer distances but faster over shorter ones and allowing greater accuracy/coordination.
Thing is, the setting does have baked in a lot of assumptions regarding FTL, specifically, the fact that it is not map-dependent. If you switch to a different FTL that *does* map directly to real space, you are going to have to adjust a *lot* of fundamental assumption in the world. For one, owning and controlling star systems now matters a *lot* more for the great powers, because you actually have to travel the space between Point A and Point B. You also have pretty much destroyed Absalom Station's major economic importance, since now its basically just a big space station, no more valuable than any other large habitable world.
All this is true, and why I mentioned FTL is more a setting piece than a mechanics question.
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Thing is, the setting does have baked in a lot of assumptions regarding FTL, specifically, the fact that it is not map-dependent. If you switch to a different FTL that *does* map directly to real space, you are going to have to adjust a *lot* of fundamental assumption in the world. For one, owning and controlling star systems now matters a *lot* more for the great powers, because you actually have to travel the space between Point A and Point B. You also have pretty much destroyed Absalom Station's major economic importance, since now its basically just a big space station, no more valuable than any other large habitable world.
Only if you do a full switch which I'm not, drift drives still exists and travelling from point x to point y is still the better option over longer distances. The warp travel is the previous means of tech/magic/hybrid travel used before triune gave everyone this shiny new travel plane. Its still around however because unlike drift travel it allows ships to have more accuracy, is faster over short distances and some don't trust drift travel at all. To get from one side of the galaxy to the other you need to use a drift or faction restricted drive because even the fastest warp drive would take years or decades. To invade a planet you'd drif to a nearby system gather your fleet together from wherever they wound up then warp to the system your invading.
. To invade a planet you'd drif to a nearby system gather your fleet together from wherever they wound up then warp to the system your invading.
and while you're doing that, and spending a month crossing 5 light years, the planet calls for reinforcements and 1d6 to 5d6 days later multiple armadas can show up
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. To invade a planet you'd drif to a nearby system gather your fleet together from wherever they wound up then warp to the system your invading.and while you're doing that, and spending a month crossing 5 light years, the planet calls for reinforcements and 1d6 to 5d6 days later multiple armadas can show up
How would they know your coming when the sensor range is barely long enough for a ship to see its own back end much less into a nearby system?
How would they know your coming when the sensor range is barely long enough for a ship to see its own back end much less into a nearby system?
The people on that planet radio ahead
Your scout ship that you keep for just that occasion drifts home and reports
The technomancer on that planet interplanetary teleports to the UN with a red alert
The head of mystic consulations for the planetary governments daily augeries start warning him about danger from the skies
Someone cranks out a telescope and notices you.
You can't just say that you've changed something about technology and no one is allowed to adapt their living to it.
How would they know your coming when the sensor range is barely long enough for a ship to see its own back end much less into a nearby system?. To invade a planet you'd drif to a nearby system gather your fleet together from wherever they wound up then warp to the system your invading.and while you're doing that, and spending a month crossing 5 light years, the planet calls for reinforcements and 1d6 to 5d6 days later multiple armadas can show up
Yeah, I have to assume any important place with the capability is going to have ships patrolling the area around it if your modified universe with warp drives and drift drives.
Or s$*@, maybe they just have satellites. Yeah they probably just have a bunch of satellites to cover light years of area of around any major installation.
If it takes 30 days max for a ship to arrive from anywhere else to your location I would expect then that they would have a network of satelites to cover 30 days worth of warp speed travel out from their location. That way, as you pass through there is basically no chance of not being detected (even if you destroy the satellites it raises alarm) and they can start calling ships in to defend, and can broadcast to basically everyone else, "Hey some s$@$s happening!".
To eliminate this sort of thing you have to remove drift travel altogether, and then everyone is stuck traveling at warp speed so unless they were also only 30 days away you would beat them there.
Unless you remove drift travel you're just not going to get the jump on somebody.
Edit: I also have to imagine that ship sensors are different from the sensors you would have on dedicated observation satellite stations.
And the sensor rules we have are super s*!~ty anyways. Like currently we can detect (big) stuff happening in other galaxies with our non advanced technology. Why can starship sensors only detect stuff that's 20 hexes (a hex being of indeterminate size) away. I assume it's a level of accuracy thing, long range sensors are super accurate at 20 hexes, but could probably determine "hey, that's some sort of space ship" from much farther away.
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How would they know your coming when the sensor range is barely long enough for a ship to see its own back end much less into a nearby system?The people on that planet radio ahead
Your scout ship that you keep for just that occasion drifts home and reports
The technomancer on that planet interplanetary teleports to the UN with a red alert
The head of mystic consulations for the planetary governments daily augeries start warning him about danger from the skies
Someone cranks out a telescope and notices you.
You can't just say that you've changed something about technology and no one is allowed to adapt their living to it.
All arguments that can apply to drift travel. If an invasion in normal space fails because "GM Fiat" an invasion via drift space fails because "GM Fiat".
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All arguments that can apply to drift travel. If an invasion in normal space fails because "GM Fiat" an invasion via drift space fails because "GM Fiat".
These are the problems with your idea is the exact opposite of fiat.
All arguments that can apply to drift travel. If an invasion in normal space fails because "GM Fiat" an invasion via drift space fails because "GM Fiat".
How would they know your coming when the sensor range is barely long enough for a ship to see its own back end much less into a nearby system?The people on that planet radio ahead
Your scout ship that you keep for just that occasion drifts home and reports
The technomancer on that planet interplanetary teleports to the UN with a red alert
The head of mystic consulations for the planetary governments daily augeries start warning him about danger from the skies
Someone cranks out a telescope and notices you.
You can't just say that you've changed something about technology and no one is allowed to adapt their living to it.
I disagree with your assessment here.
Drift space allows an individual ship to travel from anywhere to anywhere in 30 days or less. The chances of encounter other ships in drift space is....low. I don't think it's defined really, I don't think it's impossible, but I think it's more like the GM decides to have an encounter in drift space to make it interesting. It's also non-linear space, so you can't put up a network of satellites or ships to watch out for people coming to you in real space.
This basically means it's impossible to stop people form showing up at your doorstep. But the normal functionality of drift space also means that they can't all show up together in fighting formation at the same time. So it's hard to muster an entire armada against a single target without the target having some sort of warning.
All arguments that can apply to drift travel. If an invasion in normal space fails because "GM Fiat" an invasion via drift space fails because "GM Fiat".
How would they know your coming when the sensor range is barely long enough for a ship to see its own back end much less into a nearby system?The people on that planet radio ahead
Your scout ship that you keep for just that occasion drifts home and reports
The technomancer on that planet interplanetary teleports to the UN with a red alert
The head of mystic consulations for the planetary governments daily augeries start warning him about danger from the skies
Someone cranks out a telescope and notices you.
You can't just say that you've changed something about technology and no one is allowed to adapt their living to it.
I disagree with your assessment here.
Drift space allows an individual ship to travel from anywhere to anywhere in 30 days or less. The chances of encounter other ships in drift space is....low. I don't think it's defined really, I don't think it's impossible, but I think it's more like the GM decides to have an encounter in drift space to make it interesting. It's also non-linear space, so you can't put up a network of satellites or ships to watch out for people coming to you in real space.
This basically means it's impossible to stop people form showing up at your doorstep. But the normal functionality of drift space also means that they can't all show up together in fighting formation at the same time. So it's hard to muster an entire armada against a single target without the target having some sort of warning.
The question they've left up in the air is just how non-linear the drift is. If it can be at all predicted with whatever complicated x^je^x equation then you can post spy sattelites in the drift, it just gets geometrically or exponentially more expensive how far out you want a warning from.
Also, armadas can all show up at once. Pretty sure slaving drift engines together to arrive at once was covered in the CRB.
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All arguments that can apply to drift travel. If an invasion in normal space fails because "GM Fiat" an invasion via drift space fails because "GM Fiat".
How would they know your coming when the sensor range is barely long enough for a ship to see its own back end much less into a nearby system?The people on that planet radio ahead
Your scout ship that you keep for just that occasion drifts home and reports
The technomancer on that planet interplanetary teleports to the UN with a red alert
The head of mystic consulations for the planetary governments daily augeries start warning him about danger from the skies
Someone cranks out a telescope and notices you.
You can't just say that you've changed something about technology and no one is allowed to adapt their living to it.
I disagree with your assessment here.
Drift space allows an individual ship to travel from anywhere to anywhere in 30 days or less. The chances of encounter other ships in drift space is....low. I don't think it's defined really, I don't think it's impossible, but I think it's more like the GM decides to have an encounter in drift space to make it interesting. It's also non-linear space, so you can't put up a network of satellites or ships to watch out for people coming to you in real space.
This basically means it's impossible to stop people form showing up at your doorstep. But the normal functionality of drift space also means that they can't all show up together in fighting formation at the same time. So it's hard to muster an entire armada against a single target without the target having some sort of warning.
The question they've left up in the air is just how non-linear the drift is. If it can be at all predicted with whatever complicated x^je^x equation then you can post spy sattelites in the drift, it just gets geometrically or exponentially more expensive how far out you want a warning
...
I know it is in dead suns you can slave them together and arrive in a group.
The people on that planet radio ahead
Assuming they can i need to look into interstellar communications in Starfinder but my impression is they rely on ships to carry the word between seperate sytems.
Your scout ship that you keep for just that occasion drifts home and reports
Your scout ship has to escape without being destroyed, encounter something in the drift and have a high enough speed to make that transit (5d6 days i think is base for the verge and 3d6 for near space).
The technomancer on that planet interplanetary teleports to the UN with a red alert
Technomancer fails because they didnt have the resolve to manage the distance.
The head of mystic consulations for the planetary governments daily augeries start warning him about danger from the skies
He's ignored because he predicted this every day since he got into power on a platform of banning anime. Also he does this for attacks via the drift.
Someone cranks out a telescope and notices you.
Nope doesn't work that way unless this is an FTL telescope that somehow sees things before the light reaches them.
Star trek, star wars, stargate all these shows had FTL yet somehow attacks still catch people by surprise. Honor Harrington ships mass outsystem then do a short ftl hop to attack.
Drift travel is either completely non-linear so without a beacon your rolling dice on where you end up or semi mappable so while x doesnt correspond to y it always drops x always has you alpear at y. I suspect the second one herwise i drift transit and find im actually 12 systems to the core of where i wanted to be.
Technomancer fails because they didnt have the resolve to manage the distance
And they can't get it back in the 5 years it takes you to cross the distance at light speed?
No. You're using fiat to overcome the objections. The objections aren't the fiat.
Assuming they can i need to look into interstellar communications in Starfinder but my impression is they rely on ships to carry the word between seperate sytems.
Drift comms are the same speed as ships, and likely have the x1-x5 speed rating as well.
I think the issue is that they just aren't secure compared to ship based messages.
Either way though, I would be entirely against a warp drive to supplement drift drives. It adds a strategic complexity to coordinate around drift travel instead of drift travel to a nearby system then warp in the rest of the way.
You have to stop and think of the ramifications as you're writing a scenario, and I think that's a good thing.
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Technomancer fails because they didnt have the resolve to manage the distanceAnd they can't get it back in the 5 years it takes you to cross the distance at light speed?
No. You're using fiat to overcome the objections. The objections aren't the fiat.
What 5 years? A nearby system would take 11 day's or less.
Interplanetary teleport has this restriction . . .
You can also attempt to teleport to planets in different solar systems that you have visited before. This increases the casting time to 1 hour and costs a number of Resolve Points equal to the number of days it would take to reach the planet through Drift travel (assume a base engine with a Drift rating of 1; the GM rolls this randomly, after you begin casting the spell). If you don’t have enough Resolve Points, you spend all the Resolve Points you have available and the spell fails.
teleporting to Absalom is fine but any near space destination is 3d6 resolve and far space is 5d6 assuming you even have someone capable of that. A minimum of 3 fine but hat if you roll 12 or 20?
I'm not saying its impossible I'm just saying if you want to be difficult it doesn't matter if its warp or drift you can make it not work for any kind of coordinated invasion, if you want to make it work you can.
The question they've left up in the air is just how non-linear the drift is. If it can be at all predicted with whatever complicated x^je^x equation then you can post spy sattelites in the drift, it just gets geometrically or exponentially more expensive how far out you want a warning from.
Also, armadas can all show up at once. Pretty sure slaving drift engines together to arrive at once was covered in the CRB.
Sorry, you're correct. Ships can slaves their drives together and leave/arrive at the same points.
Which I think really is all Senko (the OP) was after. There's really no need for warp travel with this option.
As to the non-linear nature of the drift...I've long assumed it was so non-linear that points to where you want go to in real space (Absalom station for example) are no more than 6 days away from you via thruster moving you through the drift no matter how far away you are.
I assume this means it's practically impossible to create a drift plane network to detect ships that might attack you because they'd have to cover an impossibly huge area and because they'd probably end up detecting lots of ships going to other places.
To me, the most interesting questions is probably, how come people aren't setting up space stations in the drift? Seems like there could be a lot of opportunities for trading posts in such a location.
The question they've left up in the air is just how non-linear the drift is. If it can be at all predicted with whatever complicated x^je^x equation then you can post spy sattelites in the drift, it just gets geometrically or exponentially more expensive how far out you want a warning from.
Also, armadas can all show up at once. Pretty sure slaving drift engines together to arrive at once was covered in the CRB.
Sorry, you're correct. Ships can slaves their drives together and leave/arrive at the same points.
Which I think really is all Senko (the OP) was after. There's really no need for warp travel with this option.
As to the non-linear nature of the drift...I've long assumed it was so non-linear that points to where you want go to in real space (Absalom station for example) are no more than 6 days away from you via thruster moving you through the drift no matter how far away you are.
I assume this means it's practically impossible to create a drift plane network to detect ships that might attack you because they'd have to cover an impossibly huge area and because they'd probably end up detecting lots of ships going to other places.
To me, the most interesting questions is probably, how come people aren't setting up space stations in the drift? Seems like there could be a lot of opportunities for trading posts in such a location.
I agree that it's practically impossible, but it might be theoretically possible for a drift detection network to exist.
As far as space stations in the drift... I've done that in play multiple times. One was dragged there from another plane. Which has been reversed justified by the starship manual having planar drives and starships. Another was an abandoned asteroid base that was there with little explanation.
I'm honestly surprised there aren't many/any official drift stations besides Triune's domain.
Yeah, it seems like a space station could have a drift drive, even if it's not capable of regular movement.
It would be very convenient to pop your space station into drift space if it was being attacked.
If supercolossal starships can have drift engines, certainly space stations should be able to. Practically speaking, supercolossal starships are probably larger than a lot of space stations, with Absalom (maybe, probably) being bigger. But that's more a city turned into a space station.
The supercolossal starship entry does mention the dwarven star citadels, so there are at least some out there that practically qualify as a space station.
Yeah, it seems like a space station could have a drift drive, even if it's not capable of regular movement.
It would be very convenient to pop your space station into drift space if it was being attacked.
If supercolossal starships can have drift engines, certainly space stations should be able to. Practically speaking, supercolossal starships are probably larger than a lot of space stations, with Absalom (maybe, probably) being bigger. But that's more a city turned into a space station.
The supercolossal starship entry does mention the dwarven star citadels, so there are at least some out there that practically qualify as a space station.
There's a star citadel statted out as a supercolossal in the starship manual.
There's also rules there for creating your ship as a colony ship or a space station 'ship'. Those rules apply to most sizes of ship, so you can have a huge space station, or a supercolossal one. Those can definitely mount drift drives, so yeah, I assume the average military space station has an emergency drift drive.
With cloaking drives and permanent mystic telepathic bonds being a thing, keeping an eye on enemy systems to see if they are massing ships for a linked jump to invade somewhere (or are missing a suspicious number of major ships that are potentially rendezvousing in an uninhabited system for the same) isn't that hard.
There's surely an observation post on some rock in the Pact Worlds, Azlanti, and Vesk systems inhabited by a telepathically linked dude watching the telescopes who gets regularly replaced via teleport circlet, high level spellcaster interplanetary teleport, or a cloaked drift ship. Everyone has real time status on what is (and isn't) in their potential enemy's home systems.
If a bunch of ships become unaccounted for you call in your reinforcements and/or upgrade your readiness status at home.
Also, re: Drift space stations, I can think of two reasons why most parties wouldn't try to establish them.
1. Specific locations in the Drift are described as being extremely hard to reach. I don't see why this would change if you build a space station. So, putting a fixed station into the Drift results in a space station that you can't reliably reach. That isn't the most useful thing.
2. The Drift is cut off from the normal cycle of souls. I lean to the generous and assume that those who die in the Drift will usually ride along with their ship until it returns to the Prime Material, and so are only damned if their ship is outright stranded permanently. That. . . isn't really an option for a space station.
The idea of putting drift engines on a station wouldn't be to have other ships reach it in the drift, it would be to allow the space station to escape would be attackers.
"Oh, you just appeared over a minute away? I'll just pop into the drift. Even if you also go to the drift, you're not going to arrive near me!"
Point 2, I don't recall the drift being cut off from the cycle of souls, but even if it's true I imagine that the space station having drift drives can go back to the material plane to let souls disembark.
Our whole presumption is that space stations should have drift drives, even if they lack regular thrusters.
With cloaking drives and permanent mystic telepathic bonds being a thing
Can you direct me to the rules on this because I don't think I've seen it?
With cloaking drives and permanent mystic telepathic bonds being a thingCan you direct me to the rules on this because I don't think I've seen it?
Cloaking drives are in Near Space and also (for biological ships) in Attack of the Swarm! plus a superior Gray-only version in Threefold Conspiracy.
Mystic telepathic bonds are of course a class feature around 11th level and very easy to acquire for a major government's spy network.
You could always just get rid of the drift and substitute Warp Engines or Hyperspace like Star Trek or Star Wars.
Faster than light travel is less about mechanics and more about setting tone in Starfinder, in my opinion.
This is exactly what I have done for my game. We use warp drive as the standard mode of travel. Gates, relay stations and wormholes also exist.
Drift drive is extremely rare, powerful, valuable and coveted.
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The question they've left up in the air is just how non-linear the drift is. If it can be at all predicted with whatever complicated x^je^x equation then you can post spy sattelites in the drift, it just gets geometrically or exponentially more expensive how far out you want a warning from.
Also, armadas can all show up at once. Pretty sure slaving drift engines together to arrive at once was covered in the CRB.
Sorry, you're correct. Ships can slaves their drives together and leave/arrive at the same points.
Which I think really is all Senko (the OP) was after. There's really no need for warp travel with this option.
As to the non-linear nature of the drift...I've long assumed it was so non-linear that points to where you want go to in real space (Absalom station for example) are no more than 6 days away from you via thruster moving you through the drift no matter how far away you are.
I assume this means it's practically impossible to create a drift plane network to detect ships that might attack you because they'd have to cover an impossibly huge area and because they'd probably end up detecting lots of ships going to other places.
To me, the most interesting questions is probably, how come people aren't setting up space stations in the drift? Seems like there could be a lot of opportunities for trading posts in such a location.
In which case any time you attempt to go somehwere without a beacon (finding a new world) your rolling the dice you wont wind up say at the heart of a sun.
How would they know your coming when the sensor range is barely long enough for a ship to see its own back end much less into a nearby system?. To invade a planet you'd drif to a nearby system gather your fleet together from wherever they wound up then warp to the system your invading.and while you're doing that, and spending a month crossing 5 light years, the planet calls for reinforcements and 1d6 to 5d6 days later multiple armadas can show upOne, that is self-evidently not true, unless you think each hex in space combat is ten feet across, which it clearly is not. While the rules may decree a *ground* sensor range of absurdly, impossibly low ( to the point that they basically have to be ignored ), that doesn't change the more general sensor rules.
Two, you presume that the sensors on your PCs ship are the only type of sensors in existence, and that nobody has massive fixed sensor arrays on space stations or moons or whatnot, specifically designed to keep an eye on, if not other systems, at least a reasonably full scope of their own single system.
Three, if your warp drive exists, every major system civilization *will* monitor its neighboring star systems. Scout ships, satellite monitoring posts, whatever. Dropping a couple unmanned satellites with FTL transmitters, and maintaining a couple 1-2 man patrol ships, is dirt cheap compared to "A hostile fleet just concentrated right next door and all arrived at once".
Actually I was referring to planetary sensors not space ones. Planetary sensors have a ridiculously short range in feet by default even with the expansion bay they barely reach further than the length of the bigger ships. That said if you assume another sensor type that can scan systems or beyond thats a change your inserting in the system because per rules extra long range is the best around and even enhanced a fast ship could cover that range in 2-3 rounds. Which when system travel by the same thrusters takes days is not that great a distance.
What's exploration without a little risk? First explorers who set out into the pacific ocean had no idea what they'd find. How many were lost at sea before finding Hawaii?
So yeah, you set out in search of a new system without drift beacons, maybe you come out so close to the sun that you're cooked alive before you can escape. Hazards of the job.
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With cloaking drives and permanent mystic telepathic bonds being a thingCan you direct me to the rules on this because I don't think I've seen it?Cloaking drives are in Near Space and also (for biological ships) in Attack of the Swarm! plus a superior Gray-only version in Threefold Conspiracy.
Mystic telepathic bonds are of course a class feature around 11th level and very easy to acquire for a major government's spy network.
The main issue i have with those drives is that they only work on a shut-down ship I'd prefer you could at least move i.e. scan a primitive species without them seeing the massive alien thing in their skies. I'm also not sure its invisibility so you can't even park a shut down invisible ship somehwere to avoid notice.
What's exploration without a little risk? First explorers who set out into the pacific ocean had no idea what they'd find. How many were lost at sea before finding Hawaii?
So yeah, you set out in search of a new system without drift beacons, maybe you come out so close to the sun that you're cooked alive before you can escape. Hazards of the job.
True but usually you can (a) see the hazard coming and (b) don't have the issue of if i stand here i burn up in this sun on the galactic fringe, if i stand 1m to the right Im in the supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy and don't even ask what happens if i stand 1m to the left.
Eh, just takes enough people who aren't adverse to risks that you might consider absurd. "I might pop out too close to a star or black hole or in the middle of a pitched space battle" isn't that far of a conceptual leap from "I might get caught in a doldrums or in a storm I can't outrun or hit by a rogue wave or just run out of food & water before I find land because I sailed in the wrong direction & there's nothing between me & South America which I don't know exists."
If anything the sheer scale of the universe puts odds pretty favorably in that even flying blind, coming out of the drift is going to put you in unoccupied space. When the Milky Way & Andromeda "collide", scientists don't believe a single pair of stars will actually hit each other, and that's out of 1.4 trillion stars. Space is just too big for that to be a likely outcome. Or at the very least, enough people will be willing to tell themselves that to risk it.
Not to mention I kinda get the sense, and I could be wrong, but I don't imagine that there are any/many systems without at least some drift beacons. Even if a system has no intelligent life, or no worshipers of Triune to place them, we know that naturally occurring drift beacons are a thing. Triune didn't make the Starstone, after all. Even if there's nothing out there as powerful, it stands to reason that there are other naturally occurring magical objects that act as beacons as well
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Eh, just takes enough people who aren't adverse to risks that you might consider absurd. "I might pop out too close to a star or black hole or in the middle of a pitched space battle" isn't that far of a conceptual leap from "I might get caught in a doldrums or in a storm I can't outrun or hit by a rogue wave or just run out of food & water before I find land because I sailed in the wrong direction & there's nothing between me & South America which I don't know exists."
If anything the sheer scale of the universe puts odds pretty favorably in that even flying blind, coming out of the drift is going to put you in unoccupied space. When the Milky Way & Andromeda "collide", scientists don't believe a single pair of stars will actually hit each other, and that's out of 1.4 trillion stars. Space is just too big for that to be a likely outcome. Or at the very least, enough people will be willing to tell themselves that to risk it.
Not to mention I kinda get the sense, and I could be wrong, but I don't imagine that there are any/many systems without at least some drift beacons. Even if a system has no intelligent life, or no worshipers of Triune to place them, we know that naturally occurring drift beacons are a thing. Triune didn't make the Starstone, after all. Even if there's nothing out there as powerful, it stands to reason that there are other naturally occurring magical objects that act as beacons as well
I don't really have a problem with the "here be dragons" aspect its the "throw a dart at the galaxy and there ye be" navigation aspect.
I don't really have a problem with the "here be dragons" aspect its the "throw a dart at the galaxy and there ye be" navigation aspect.Eh, just takes enough people who aren't adverse to risks that you might consider absurd. "I might pop out too close to a star or black hole or in the middle of a pitched space battle" isn't that far of a conceptual leap from "I might get caught in a doldrums or in a storm I can't outrun or hit by a rogue wave or just run out of food & water before I find land because I sailed in the wrong direction & there's nothing between me & South America which I don't know exists."
If anything the sheer scale of the universe puts odds pretty favorably in that even flying blind, coming out of the drift is going to put you in unoccupied space. When the Milky Way & Andromeda "collide", scientists don't believe a single pair of stars will actually hit each other, and that's out of 1.4 trillion stars. Space is just too big for that to be a likely outcome. Or at the very least, enough people will be willing to tell themselves that to risk it.
Not to mention I kinda get the sense, and I could be wrong, but I don't imagine that there are any/many systems without at least some drift beacons. Even if a system has no intelligent life, or no worshipers of Triune to place them, we know that naturally occurring drift beacons are a thing. Triune didn't make the Starstone, after all. Even if there's nothing out there as powerful, it stands to reason that there are other naturally occurring magical objects that act as beacons as well
Then just change the aspect of the drift.
Drift is very precise, but not very accurate. So if you leave from exactly the same point on the material plane you will end up at an exact point in the drift, but a little to the left or right and you up someplace else, very far away.
This works well for places that have already been explored.
For new places, just assume it works like a shotgun sort of effect. Your spaceships drift navigation computer can calculate based on your position and intended destination where to go to in the material plane, to get you as close as possible to the point where you will jump back from the drift, but it's still casting a wide net. It's guaranteeing you'll be maybe on weeks away from where you want to go (at speed much slower than light) rather than lifetimes.
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I don't really have a problem with the "here be dragons" aspect its the "throw a dart at the galaxy and there ye be" navigation aspect.Eh, just takes enough people who aren't adverse to risks that you might consider absurd. "I might pop out too close to a star or black hole or in the middle of a pitched space battle" isn't that far of a conceptual leap from "I might get caught in a doldrums or in a storm I can't outrun or hit by a rogue wave or just run out of food & water before I find land because I sailed in the wrong direction & there's nothing between me & South America which I don't know exists."
If anything the sheer scale of the universe puts odds pretty favorably in that even flying blind, coming out of the drift is going to put you in unoccupied space. When the Milky Way & Andromeda "collide", scientists don't believe a single pair of stars will actually hit each other, and that's out of 1.4 trillion stars. Space is just too big for that to be a likely outcome. Or at the very least, enough people will be willing to tell themselves that to risk it.
Not to mention I kinda get the sense, and I could be wrong, but I don't imagine that there are any/many systems without at least some drift beacons. Even if a system has no intelligent life, or no worshipers of Triune to place them, we know that naturally occurring drift beacons are a thing. Triune didn't make the Starstone, after all. Even if there's nothing out there as powerful, it stands to reason that there are other naturally occurring magical objects that act as beacons as well
Then just change the aspect of the drift.
Drift is very precise, but not very accurate. So if you leave from exactly the same point on the material plane you will end up at an exact point in the drift, but a little to the left or right and you up someplace else, very far away.
This works well for places that have already been explored.
For new places, just assume it works like a shotgun sort of...
I know your trying to be helpful and I appreciate it but between my tiredness I read it as "For new places, just assume it works like a shotgun" meaning the ship exits the dirft in multiple parts like a shotgun pellet burst so thank you for the smile that brought to me.
Lol.
That could also make for an interesting story as your players attempt to survive the drift without their space ship.
Eh, space stations from the starship manual can range from size large to supercolossal.
Base frames are 1/5 the price, max crew is five times normal, and they can mount three times the expansion bays (but the extras must be civilian related), plus one orbital weapon for 1/3 cost. All at the cost of moving at 1/4 speed.
I'd say there are plenty of smaller than super colossal space stations scattered around. The drift contingency on anything colossal and smaller isn't going to be that problematic.
Yeah, having a drift capable large size category space station is pretty straight forward. You can have a large space station that can hold 100 crew, and expansion bays for potential visiting traders and their stuff.
There's no reason for these type vessels not to be drift capable really.
Also... huh... I doubt they're supposed to stack, but I wonder what level squadron HQs become useful if their base frame price is 1/50th the original price.
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Which is why you'll only see me saying "blown out into space."
If you're just walking through your space kitchen and the wall leaves for whatever reason, the rush of atmosphere leaving the ship may take you with it. But space itself exerts no suction.Well...that's still a bit incorrect because you're not going to be blown out into space either (or at least it's very unlikely). The amount of force generated is relative to the size of the hole, but so is the duration. Big hole, big force, short time. Small hole, small force, long time.
A big hole will move you, but the time is so short you wont get that far. A small hole will generate such weak force you can easily walk away from it.
Real sorry, I know this is old and we've moved on to Drift mechanics, but I feel I should point out that this isn't quite accurate either, at least in the former case. A big hole will generate a big force for a short time, true, but "short" is exactly enough time to get you moving forever if there's no air to slow you down. Not getting "that far" relies on some opposing force acting against your flat speed.
Essentially, grab a handhold or it's going to be a very drawn-out, embarrassing float out of the new window. Otherwise, hope someone sees you so they can come jetpack your environmentally-protected butt to safety.
EDIT: D'oh, physics head. I realise you were probably assuming artificial gravity, hence "walk", therefore traction, thus no embarrassing float into the starry beyond. Whoopsie. :P
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Which is why you'll only see me saying "blown out into space."
If you're just walking through your space kitchen and the wall leaves for whatever reason, the rush of atmosphere leaving the ship may take you with it. But space itself exerts no suction.Well...that's still a bit incorrect because you're not going to be blown out into space either (or at least it's very unlikely). The amount of force generated is relative to the size of the hole, but so is the duration. Big hole, big force, short time. Small hole, small force, long time.
A big hole will move you, but the time is so short you wont get that far. A small hole will generate such weak force you can easily walk away from it.
Real sorry, I know this is old and we've moved on to Drift mechanics, but I feel I should point out that this isn't quite accurate either, at least in the former case. A big hole will generate a big force for a short time, true, but "short" is exactly enough time to get you moving forever if there's no air to slow you down. Not getting "that far" relies on some opposing force acting against your flat speed.
Essentially, grab a handhold or it's going to be a very drawn-out, embarrassing float out of the new window. Otherwise, hope someone sees you so they can come jetpack your environmentally-protected butt to safety.
EDIT: D'oh, physics head. I realise you were probably assuming artificial gravity, hence "walk", therefore traction, thus no embarrassing float into the starry beyond. Whoopsie. :P
To be fair if the bulkhead's missing there's a decent chance artificial gravity has been knocked offline as well due to battle damage.
Which is why you'll only see me saying "blown out into space."
If you're just walking through your space kitchen and the wall leaves for whatever reason, the rush of atmosphere leaving the ship may take you with it. But space itself exerts no suction.Well...that's still a bit incorrect because you're not going to be blown out into space either (or at least it's very unlikely). The amount of force generated is relative to the size of the hole, but so is the duration. Big hole, big force, short time. Small hole, small force, long time.
A big hole will move you, but the time is so short you wont get that far. A small hole will generate such weak force you can easily walk away from it.
Real sorry, I know this is old and we've moved on to Drift mechanics, but I feel I should point out that this isn't quite accurate either, at least in the former case. A big hole will generate a big force for a short time, true, but "short" is exactly enough time to get you moving forever if there's no air to slow you down. Not getting "that far" relies on some opposing force acting against your flat speed.
Essentially, grab a handhold or it's going to be a very drawn-out, embarrassing float out of the new window. Otherwise, hope someone sees you so they can come jetpack your environmentally-protected butt to safety.
EDIT: D'oh, physics head. I realise you were probably assuming artificial gravity, hence "walk", therefore traction, thus no embarrassing float into the starry beyond. Whoopsie. :P
You are right that you would continue moving due to lack of air friction to slow you down, but this the point where the analysis start to break down without math.
Because now you have to start calculating the exact impulse and force and how fast it gets you moving.
My (unstated) assumption was essentially that as long as it doesn't pull you out of the ship while the force was being applied that you could grab something. You might also have magnetic boots.
Honestly, if you're interesting space combat it seems pretty reasonable that you would make sure to activate environmental protections and things like mag boots just to prepare yourself.
Of course, that's more specific to the game and less about general physics.
So you're correct, but I was trying to avoid getting into the nitty gritty math to perform the analysis...because frankly I don't have time to go and find all the correct formula because I don't have them off the top of my head (I'm an engineer not a physicist).