PFS 1-24: Lightning Strikes, Stars Fall


GM Discussion

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1/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Agent, Online—VTT

The Shortcut Through The Wastes Exploration activity can be attempted only once per segment of the journey. The exploration points gained affect the group's movement rate.

The way the activity and exploration points are presented don't seem to work well together, though.

Only a single shortcut check can be made for each segment of the journey, with a best result of 2 exploration points gained. The effects of the exploration points are counted up to an effect for 5+ Exploration Points. Presumably, this means that the exploration points are intended to be cumulative from the Shortcut checks for all 4 segments of travel.

However, this either means that the party ends up continually accelerating, so that it is never possible for a party to be making best time at the beginning of the trip, and very likely that they'll be moving at high speed at the end (which is odd) or that the effects of the final total should be applied to the travel time for the full trip (which would mean you could never accurately say how much time has passed to get to a certain point.) It's seems clear enough from the note about checking the exploration point totals in Torch, to let the PCs know if they're on schedule, that the cumulative exploration point total applying to the whole trip is the correct reading, but does anyone have a good solution for not being able to give an accurate answer to perfectly reasonable questions like "how many miles have we traveled and what day is it?"

Additionally, none of the locations of things like the snipers and acid spitting "bushes" in encounter B are actually marked on any of the maps.

5/55/55/55/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Seattle

There was a discussion about this on the OP discord in the scenario specific channel for GenCon in which we basically say the same thing you just said. Yeah, it is wonky, but in practice it works out just fine to do the "final total to the whole trip" thing, just don't draw too much attention to it.


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Are only those PCs who are currently trained in crafting supposed to get access to the formulas on the chronicle? Also, are they in that case required to spend the money for the formula right then and there? In other scenarios, even if you cannot make use of or cannot afford to purchase a boon or item (yet), you still get it on the chronicle, right?

If you trained crafting or earned enough money later, you should be able to go back there and buy the formula then, no?

The Fall of Plaguestone chronicle e.g. (yes, not specifically a Society scenario, I know) grants you access to a special animal companion. Even if at the point of obtaining the chronicle you cannot have a companion yet, you can still take that later from the chronicle.

And in the Chronicle sheet section on p.24, while it specifically states they get another item if they did X, it does NOT say they only get the formulas if they did or have Y.

Grand Lodge 4/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Missouri—Columbia

The way I read it, they only got the forumulas if they stopped and took the time to attend the lectures. I've been told by some on the Gen Con HQ that is not correct, but that sure is the way it is written.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Well, "he offers to give interested PCs a lesson in how to craft xxx", doesn't really say they have to have the lesson right then and there. It could just as well be interpreted as saying he's available to teach PCs the lesson if and when they're interested.

Just like the item he's selling doesn't have to be bought right there, but is available to be bought in the future (and is thus on the chronicle).

In addition, the formulas are listed on the chronicle with a price of 50gp each. Normally, items listed on the chronicle sheet are available to be purchased for the price listed (assuming you meet the level prerequisites). If a PC has to spend the 50gp just to have the item listed on the chronicle in the first place, they are now either expected to pay double, or the discounted price listed should be 0gp (since they already had to pay the 50gp to have it listed on there in the first place).

And how is this supposed to work with the bequeathal faction boon?! I have to purchase the item first to be able to bequeathe the right to purchase it to someone else?!

In my opinion, it all doesn't add up. I think whoever is interpreting the "he offers to give a lecture..." sentence as it has to be bought on the spot is reading too much into it. It should really just be another item on the chronicle that becomes accessible for purchase later.

It's probably an issue that could be cleared up fairly easily by an interpretation by Michael Sayre, Tony Woldridge or someone else official from Organized Play. Maybe someone could point them to this thread for a quick clarification? :)

* Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Roseville

Based on my understanding of the travel in this scenario, the PCs effectively need to journey 150 miles through difficult terrain within 10 days.

Assuming the slowest PC has a 25ft move speed, that means 10 miles per day. Assuming the most likely scenario that the party gets 3-4 exploration points from the shortcut activity, they'll be considered to move as though they were 35ft, which still only means 14 miles per day. This still doesn't make 150 miles in 10 days.

What am I missing? The primary objective of this scenario requires 5+ successes? The only other option seems to be to buy mounts, but then why have the questgiver explicitly advise the PCs to not get mounts?

I also don't see any case where you could honestly tell the PCs they have time to rest in Torch. If at that point they even had 4 Exploration Points (which meant a crit success and no failures, so not even likely), I'd still be wary since making it on time means not failing the last check, which isn't a guarantee.

2/5 5/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston

Yes, as far as I can tell if you have fewer than 5 EPs you need an adjusted base speed of 40, or you need a base speed of 25 and get to 5+. Given that only get a +10 boost that means you need a base speed of 30 before adjustments.

I don't love it. But that's how I ran it at GenCon. The party did have a base speed of 25, and had 4 points at Torch. I let them know if they continue to make good progress they could spare the day, but it was a risk. They got the one more point they needed after Torch.

The VC briefing suggests that a party with a base speed of 25 should be able to make it, as long as they take direct routes. Which to me implies it should be possible with 1-2 EPs. While a base speed of 20 should require the 5+ tier.

So 20 and 5pts can make it 10 days, but can't spend a day at Torch or loose time to the Krooths. That feels a little too 'must be perfect' IMO.

25 with a plus 10 only makes 140 miles in the 10 days which feels wrong given the VC's briefing.

Also feedback from Micheal was that if PCs buy horses/mounts they are are likely to be killed in the Steaming Fields if any of the hazards are triggered, or at the krooth fight. I think its reasonable for PCs to say they're tying off their horses while investigating the krooth corpse/area, but not while charting the course across the steaming fields.

5/5 *****

Yep, this scenario is very confusing, largely because it appears exploration points only apply once they finish the journey. So the PCs exist in this strange quantum state where you have no idea how long it takes them to arrive at the Gorum Pots until they have actually completed the journey. That is the only way I can actually make sense of the mechanic. Buying mounts looks pretty essential.

* Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Roseville

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So basically if the PCs actually follow the instructions given in the briefing, they are relying on 3 successes and a crit success out of four skill checks that each only allow one player to roll. Any fails and you lose?

While this is also my read of the scenario as written, this is way, way, way beyond the difficulty of any other scenario by a long shot, and is not satisfying to have the success or failure of the whole thing hinge on one person at the table getting a crit.

Even if the party had 30 base move speed and got just normal successes on the shortcuts (so treated as 40) they still lose if they stop in Torch for a day or if they failed the steaming vents and had to tack an extra 20 miles on. I don't actually see any scenario where I could ever advise a party to stop in Torch even if they seemed to be making good time, since a crit fail on a later shortcut check could retroactively make the party fail the whole objective.

Likewise, if you rule that a single fail on the steaming vents hazard means a dead mount, then you're making anybody failing a single skill check mean a lost scenario. I could maybe see something like that meaning a missed treasure bundle, and even then I think that'd be a bit harsh.

In all seriousness, I don't see any reasonable way to run this scenario if that's the intended mechanics. There shouldn't be a case where if any single character just happens to not have the right skills then the whole party loses. There shouldn't be a situation where the only good course of action would be to leave a party member behind, but if you had a 25ft speed character whose mount died, everybody would be better off under these rules to simply leave them behind to ride with the caravan and stop playing.

5/55/55/55/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Seattle

This is a summary of the things that were said on the discussion channel for PFS2 #1-24 on the GenCon Discord (where it was discussed before general public release of the scenario), preserved for posterity.

Regarding how to run the exploration point mechanic -

The following seems to be a reasonable interpretation, as advanced by Eric (I agree, for whatever that's worth):
a) Use the lowest PC move speed (taking into account boots, mounts if bought etc)
b) You have four checks, one pc rolls, others can aid, earning -1/0/1/2 per check, summed over the four checks
c) when they reach Gorum Pits, calculate their effective speed. If the got 5+ EP use the lowest party members speed. IF they have fewer than 5 EP, add the +5/+10 as appropriate, then 1/2 for the difficult terrain.

Regarding VC Dagur Hawksight apparently discouraging the party from buying mounts -

Michael Sayre via Alex Speidel wrote:

"The VC doesn't tell them not to take mounts, she says buying mounts might seem like a good investment, but they'll probably die, which is true. The hazards are the krooth and the steaming fields, which will obliterate a standard horse. They have the Hustle and Shortcut Through the Wastes activities to help accelerate their speed, as well as the VC giving a speed-boosting item to the slowest member of the party.

I can poke at the particulars a bit more, but if you assume the party is actively using those activities as suggested in the adventure, it should work out with the listed timeframes. And if they buy horses, it'll go faster but the horses will almost certainly die in any of the encounters the PCs face, but particularly the steaming fields."

Also note the following regarding the Hustle exploration activity - the scenario mentions that Hustling only makes a difference if done for at least 1 hour, and -

Core Rulebook p.480 wrote:
You can Hustle only for a number of minutes equal to your Constitution modifier × 10 (minimum 10 minutes). If you are in a group that is Hustling, use the lowest Constitution modifier among everyone to determine how fast the group can Hustle together.

Regarding horses getting killed -

There are arguably opportunities to dismount in both cases before the combat so that horses are not brought into the fight: (a) noticing body of half-eaten creature, and (b) figuring out cause of acid. This is especially a good idea for a mounted party anyway, anytime an encounter seems likely, if the mounts are not combat-trained (and would be likely to flee) - to tie them up some distance away. (Aside: It seems from the comment by Michael above that this may not have been the intention of the scenario, but a kind GM might not see a good reason to disallow it.)

Regarding the conditions under which party members get access to the adamantine chunk and formulas -

Tonya in the VO Discord via Eric Nielsen wrote:
"you have to talk to a particular townsperson (Khonnir Baine) for the formulas. So if PCs talk to Baine, the formulas stay on the Chronicle, regardless whether purchased in game. If they don't talk to Baine, the formulas get crossed off the Chronicle."

So the understanding here is that the PCs don't have to buy the stuff in-game, but can buy it off the Chronicle sheet later (though this only really makes a difference in the case that they didn't have enough money during the game and would have to be spending the rewards from this scenario in order to afford it).

There is still an open question whether only those characters trained in Crafting should get access (which seems to be the implication, otherwise why mention 'PCs who are at least trained' at all in regards to the conversation), or if the party as a whole gets access regardless. That aspect probably isn't such a huge deal though - if a character was going to ever take Crafting it's quite likely they would have done so by this point in their careers, and if not, they probably don't care about the formulas.


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logsig wrote:
There is still an open question whether only those characters trained in Crafting should get access (which seems to be the implication, otherwise why mention 'PCs who are at least trained' at all in regards to the conversation), or if the party as a whole gets access regardless. That aspect probably isn't such a huge deal though - if a character was going to ever take Crafting it's quite likely they would have done so by this point in their careers, and if not, they probably don't care about the formulas.

However, there is the bequeathal boon, that specifically exists to let players transfer an item that one character cannot use or doesn't care to use to another.

The text makes it clear that the character that is to learn the recipe needs to be trained in crafting and pay a fee. However, both of these are requirements at the time of purchase, and do not neccessarily have to be fulfilled by the character running this adventure, nor at that time. Having the item on the chronicle sheet really just makes the option available for purchase or bequeathal in the future, when they fulfill those conditions.

* Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Roseville

logsig wrote:
There is still an open question whether only those characters trained in Crafting should get access (which seems to be the implication, otherwise why mention 'PCs who are at least trained' at all in regards to the conversation), or if the party as a whole gets access regardless. That aspect probably isn't such a huge deal though - if a character was going to ever take Crafting it's quite likely they would have done so by this point in their careers, and if not, they probably don't care about the formulas.

How about if they didn't stop in Torch and meet the Blacksmith, which is pretty reasonable to do because why would a party really want to waste a day on an extremely tight timeline to "shop" for items they know they can already trivially buy between scenarios?

Hustle will not work unless it happens that the slowest player has a 22 constitution, which is impossible at this level, since you can hustle for 10 minutes per constitution modifier and thus would need a +6 to hustle for an hour.

The VC literally says and I quote, "You might think that buying horses is a good idea, but I wouldn’t recommend it." The VC goes on to tell the party that if they have a 25ft move speed, they should have little trouble making it, further implying mounts wouldn't be necessary at all. This is not true, as 5+ exploration points has less than a 2% chance of happening, but is necessary for 25ft to reach the destination on time. Did they miss that the scenario specifies that the party only gets 4 chances to Shortcut (and not the ability to do it every day) or that this time around only one party member can Shortcut each time, and not everybody (which is how all prior scenarios have handled accruing Points in skill challenges).

Also, having 5+ exploration points by the time you reach Torch would mean a success and two crit successes. This is extremely, extremely unlikely to occur. A party of level 7s, even assuming one of them is Expert in a relevant skill and another person good enough to consistently aid, would be rolling a +12 and thus would only crit success on a Nat 20. So this 5+ exploration point at Torch situation requires two nat 20s AND not failing the third check. This has a 0.16% chance of happening (that's roughly 1 in 800 games).

If those were the answers given at GenCon, I'm wondering if the scenario changed between then and the released version now, because those responses do not match the text in the scenario as written.

* Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Roseville

On a side note, I really was disappointed with the final boss fight. This isn't the first time I've encountered this, but I absolutely hate bosses of the "Low HP but has Hardness/DR" because they get absolutely trashed by a crit and go down easy. When I ran this, he crit failed his save against a Level 4 fireball on the first round, and took 74 damage of which 64 got through his Hardness, but with losing more than half his HP he was immediately broken, at which point he dies easily. He was dead halfway through the 2nd round against 4 level 7s (the minimum levels possible and still play SubTier 7-8).

These sorts of boss fights need to have some kind of way to resist crits, at least for a couple times. In another fight kinda like this one (Opal of Bhopan) the boss has a Reaction where he can make the first crit against him miss entirely. He still goes down to the second crit, but at least this was something going for him to live long enough to be a challenge.

5/55/55/55/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Seattle

David Nadler wrote:
If those were the answers given at GenCon, I'm wondering if the scenario changed between then and the released version now, because those responses do not match the text in the scenario as written.

No, the scenario did not change, and yes, the answer did not seem to really jibe with our understanding of the text.

The consensus among GMs in the GenCon thread (if I can use the word consensus regarding a discussion that was to be honest just Eric and me), is that the party is going to naturally make that time calculation based on their normal speed, not counting on any boosts that may or may not happen due to their potential success at the exploration activity, and want to buy horses. As GMs we we were trying to figure out a way in which that works out ok, i.e. doesn't violate the terms/intent of the scenario, and doesn't lead to massive party fail, hence all that talk about horses and dismounting before combat.

2/5 5/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston

My GenCon party was just about as ideal as it could be, don't remember the precise details, but two druid/rangers who did very well on the nature checks for the shortcut through the wastes. Bypassed the krooth encounter with the create water & rations. Hide their tracks. 1 Crit, two regular successes before Torch. No triggers of streaming fields. (But I think something like 5 hero points used up by Torch to achieve those results.) They didn't buy horses, base speed of 25 after the one slower person got the item from the VC.

I really dislike the 'buy horses in spite of the venture captain's warning' approach, but I feel something has to give. I hope now that GenCon is over Michael can check back in and tell us what we're misinterpreting about the rules. Since the 25 base speed really shouldn't require 3 success and 1 crit, IMO, given the VC's guidance.

And even if they do buy horses, and lose them at the steaming fields, how should that be adjudicated. They have the overland speed of 40 for the first 100 miles and then their base speed for the last 50. I'd want to segment the journey into those two parts, apply the end of journey EP boosts to each part separately and then sum the time, but I don't think that's inline with the abstract calculations....

* Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Roseville

It's really weird because the Steaming Fields are "a few miles before you reach Torch" but they're considered to be full quarter segment of the overall trip for Shortcut purposes.

It's also extra confusing and a double-down on "mounts aren't needed" since the VC goes out of her way to give the party Boots of Bounding, which only improve walking movement and further imply that walking is the recommended and suitable approach.

If we just assumed the fields were 100 miles in and they'd have 50 miles left to go, I'd average the move speed over the whole journey. 2/3rd at 40 + 1/3 at 25 would be equivalent to a 35 move speed at most (it's a little slower than that since it was more like 95 miles to the fields, then the remaining 55 miles sans mounts after that). Assuming they had successes enough to get the 5ft bonus they'd barely make it. Although if they lost the horses because they failed to navigate the Steaming Fields and had another 20 miles tacked on, they'd also fail the scenario (they'd make 160 miles out of a now 170 mile journey).

Note that if any of the characters (notably the Small ones) have Riding Ponies or Riding Dogs instead, those only have a 35 ft move. Only full horses will do.

I can think of a few things that would "fix" this scenario if any of these were true:

1) The VC makes it clear that ~35ft move speed is needed plus finding a couple shortcuts. This should ensure the party prepares adequately rather than trust that the scenario will provide a reasonable solution since the objective implies it should work out.

2) The Shortcut activity can be performed each day rather than at arbitrary quarter segments. This would provide 9-10 opportunities to get the 5 Exploration Points you'd want instead of 4.

3) Stopping in Torch has an option to hire a Guide for the remainder of the journey, providing extra Exploration Points. The GM could encourage this if the party was clearly not going to make it by that point in the journey, rather than playing out the remaining 1-2 hours knowing the players already failed.

4) Hustle's requirement was rewritten such that it was usable. Make it so they can use it to make up for their slower speed as long as they can sustain it for a half hour at a time (so a 16 Con) or they can still do it but become Fatigued each day as a result.

5/5 *****

It also gets complicated if, as happened when I ran it, 3 of the parties horses died horribly in the Steaming Fields. They decided to buy new ones in Torch so I left their base speed as was but if they hadnt then you are left wondering how to calculate their average speed. Really, it seems this one was rushed through without really thinking about how the "abstract" travel mechanic actually worked. It feels like the shotcut activity was initially a daily thing (which would actually have made sense if everyone got to roll) but was then changed to a narrative approach (which simply doesnt work).

As it was you simply cannot know at what point the group arrives at the rendevous until they actually arrive at the rendevous.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

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Running this last night, I thought it worked alright narratively. I didn't give them any solid number of days spent, just collecting the shortcut rolls between scenes and telling them whether they were on pace when they reached Torch. That said, I also softballed the VCs warning against horses a little, having her emphasize that it was dangerous for horses/ponies (I just don't see how the math works otherwise, as they need an effective base speed of 40 after shortcut adjustments, to make it on time). As a result, they dismounted and tied off their horses before doing anything, including the Steaming Fields, and their horses survived.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/55/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

Still prepping for running it Thursday, but when I played it at Gencon my druid just cast Show the Way every day and we had no problems with the travel at all.

I kinda lost track of things a bit once we got to Torch and I started fanboy-ing and posting pics to the channel of when I ran Iron Gods. And again with pics of the spider.

2/5 5/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston

Lets see with Show the Way, what does the math looks like:

a) Base Speed 20 = 16 mi/day StW speed 12 miles/day = 120 miles over 10 days
b) Base Speed 25 = 20 mi/day StW speed 15 miles/day = 150 miles over 10 days
c) Base Speed 30 = 24 mi/day StW speed 18 miles/day = 180 miles over 10 days

So an (a) party can succeed if they get 1-2 EPs. Or can have a day to spare in Torch if they get (3-4).
A (b) party needs to get 1-2 EP to have the day to spend in torch.
A (c) party needs no successes to have time to spend in torch.

That matches up with the VC's assessment at the beginning of the scenario. Makes me think a wand of Show the Way would have been the better loaner item than the boots. It is Primal and Divine, its not uncommon.It is from a later sourcebook. So while its on every cleric/druid's list, they may not all know about it.

It almost looks like the scenario was assuming difficult terrain was 3/4 not 1/2 to begin with, given how close the result is to the scenario's in-game expectations.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/55/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

Does the breastplate on the chronicle follow an upgrade path? Upgrading gear seems to be pretty common in PF2. Can a regular +1 Resilient Breastplate be upgraded to the Numerian steel by paying the extra 400gp?

2/5 5/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston

I think the only upgrades are runes, or low-grade->standard->grade.

So I'd say no to regular +1 Resilient Breastplate -> Numerian Steal Breastplate.

Grand Lodge 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

In retrospect, My first impulse was "Okay, so they might die along the way, thats fine. Oh wait, I bet that means they are expensive... I guess I won't buy one."

If I had realized we were talking about 8 gp per, I would have bought 6 of the bloody things for the party, and maybe a couple extra back ups to come along with the caravan!

I'm a 7th level character. I make ~24 gp in dayjob alone. It would have been totally worth it. I wonder if the VCs warning was meant to be less "Don't buy animals" and more "don't complain to me when they die halfway through"

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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I don't think it's necessarily that uncommon for a party at this level to broadly have 30 speed - in our run we all had 30-35 feet speed thanks to Fleet and Longstrider effects.

But the poor messaging about using horses or not was a poor idea. I may have to lean on the "paraphrase the box text" bit to present that better when I run this.

5/5 *****

I stressed the importance of getting there in 10 days and put up a handout with the overland travel rates as a reminder for the players. A few had a base speed of 40 already (fleet + longstrider), the rest bought war horses when reminded that riding horses would flee at the first sign of a battle.

1/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Agent, Online—VTT

My players all bought horses while assuming they would lose them partway, because, while the warning about the job being very dangerous for the animals was reiterated, the VC did also make clear that getting the caravan to their destination on time was the mission.

2/5 5/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston

Finally got to play in it last night, after GMing it before. High tier, but mainly low tier characters (one level 8 rogue, one level 7 cloistered cleric, 3 5's 1 6. 5 of the six had 30+ base move, with the straggler pushed to 30 with the boots. Cleric had Show the Path. Made the travel portion easy mode. (18 miles/day before any EPs, 24 mi/day at the 3-4 EP threshold, and same at the 5+ (but now longer needing the cleric to burn a spell slot).

Final encounter was a challenge for us, only my level 6 Fighter/MC Wizard was able to get through the hardness semi-reliably. Didn't have many buffs in the party to make hitting the high AC easier, and aside from flanking, he was immune to most other effects people tried to throw at him. Once I got a crit, most people were able to hit him, but still only I could do damage(at least at that point I was critting almost 60% of the time on first attacks. The rogue's weapon of choice was a venom dagger, so no striking runes IIRC. Monk didn't have striking handwraps, etc. Investigator was using the +1 Kukri from the ambushers. Wizard was an aoe blasty caster and couldnot do much single target. Cleric was a pure (and effective) healer. Since how the boss was basically chunking 3/4 of my HP each turn.

Definitely a different experience from when I GM'd it, with pair of fighter/champions with a bard buffing them, and both with striking runes + elemental runes.

5/5 *

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James Anderson wrote:
Does the breastplate on the chronicle follow an upgrade path? Upgrading gear seems to be pretty common in PF2. Can a regular +1 Resilient Breastplate be upgraded to the Numerian steel by paying the extra 400gp?

You can upgrade items like Numerian Steel Breastplates and Venom Daggers with fundamental runes. Check p581 of the core rulebook or https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=733, under "Specific Armor and Weapons".

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/55/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

cyberferrel wrote:
James Anderson wrote:
Does the breastplate on the chronicle follow an upgrade path? Upgrading gear seems to be pretty common in PF2. Can a regular +1 Resilient Breastplate be upgraded to the Numerian steel by paying the extra 400gp?

You can upgrade items like Numerian Steel Breastplates and Venom Daggers with fundamental runes. Check p581 of the core rulebook or https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=733, under "Specific Armor and Weapons".

The problem is the reverse - by the level you can buy the item, you probably already have at least a +1 Breastplate that you'd have to sell off and then buy this, as opposed to just upgrading to it. Not being able to add property runes, like you mentioned, makes it even worse.

Grand Lodge 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

The APG actually makes it possible for characters to hustle with as low as +3 con mod.

Warmarch hobgoblins can hustle twice as long as normal.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

HammerJack wrote:
Additionally, none of the locations of things like the snipers and acid spitting "bushes" in encounter B are actually marked on any of the maps.

No one has answered this part.

Where are the bushes that are not marked on the map?

Honestly, this type of problem has popped up in several of the 2e adventures. More attention needs to be given to this so GMs have something to follow when trying to layout the encounters.

What did others do for the bushes? How many? Their locations?

2/5 5/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston

I did 4 bushes (or 5/6/ in 5/6 player since I think that's what the scaling implied).

I placed them 'inside' bushes that were already on the map. Scattered about the approach to the log/robot leg. Tried to make sure there wasn't too viscous overlapping fields of fire -- but that doesn't matter too much since its a single pool of actions for the combined but separate bushes.

1/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Agent, Online—VTT

4 Bushes plus CP adjustment, per the hazard description and scaling sidebar. For location, I just picked a bunch if them scattered around the paths, since the map gives no guidance. I didn't pick any that were right up on the sniper position, figuring that the Blue Streaks chose the location on purpose, and had selected their position well.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Makes sense. Took me a little bit to figure out where the sniper position was sense it too was not marked.

5/5 *****

I put the snipers behind the big log. I assume the bushes on the map are th acid spitting bushes but only a few are active based on the scaling.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

I am placing the sniper nest in the big clear area at the bottom. I didn't put them by the log because, in the scenario, the log is described as something that the PCs can hide behind for cover.

2/5 5/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston

I put the snipers scattered at the opposite end of the map from the clearing, hiding prone in various bushes (not the hazard bushes), had to be pretty spread out to get LoS to PCs with the robot log in the way (which would be total cover from a prone sniper).

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

The challenge with putting them at the top is that they would be in the acid pools if they were prone.

5/5 *

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
James Anderson wrote:
cyberferrel wrote:
James Anderson wrote:
Does the breastplate on the chronicle follow an upgrade path? Upgrading gear seems to be pretty common in PF2. Can a regular +1 Resilient Breastplate be upgraded to the Numerian steel by paying the extra 400gp?

You can upgrade items like Numerian Steel Breastplates and Venom Daggers with fundamental runes. Check p581 of the core rulebook or https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=733, under "Specific Armor and Weapons".

The problem is the reverse - by the level you can buy the item, you probably already have at least a +1 Breastplate that you'd have to sell off and then buy this, as opposed to just upgrading to it. Not being able to add property runes, like you mentioned, makes it even worse.

You can transfer runes for free in PFS. In that case, you transfer the fundamental rune from your existing +1 Breastplate to your Numerian Steel Breastplate. No need to sell off.

On the property runes, that's where the decision is. You either get the flexibility of being able to add any property runes on standard magic armour, or you use the fixed abilities of the special magic item. But there is an upgrade path. You can add or transfer fundamental runes, than continue upgrading them if you choose.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Indiana—Southern

Now that I'm prepping to run this after having played it - just want to note for other GMs that the treasure bundles in the adventure itself are either incomplete or wrong. The table on page 29 appears to be correct, however.

2/5 ** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

cyberferrel wrote:
You can transfer runes for free in PFS. In that case, you transfer the fundamental rune from your existing +1 Breastplate to your Numerian Steel Breastplate. No need to sell off.

Minor note, but it's not free anymore. It's 10% of the cost of the rune. So for a +1 breastplate it's 16 GP to move that +1 rune elsewhere. And the breastplate already has a +1 rune, so transferring it to the armor would do nothing.

****

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Society Subscriber
cavernshark wrote:


Minor note, but it's not free anymore. It's 10% of the cost of the rune. So for a +1 breastplate it's 16 GP to move that +1 rune elsewhere. And the breastplate already has a +1 rune, so transferring it to the armor would do nothing.

It won't be free in the future (possibly)... It was mentioned by Sayre in the Paizocon Online AMA, but hasn't made it into a blog or update to the guide yet. And that's assuming nobody forgets or a quiet decision not to implement the change is made. Heck the whole AMA thread is gone now. Can't even link to it.

2/5 5/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston

It was never free. It was misunderstood as free. I don't think there needs to be a blog post.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Ok, having ran this adventure this pat weekend, the whole time to travel should not be a problem with for a competent party to manage. My party made it to Torch in 4 days. There speed was 25 because the dwarf was loaned boots and the hell knight fighter bought a horse!

Played at CP=18, 6 players, so maximum adjustment. Overall a fun adventure. The last fight took my group a LONG time to finish because of how spread out the NPCS were.

The first fight, the party dropped 6!! fireballs on the poor snippers. I gave the snippers greater cover so that was what allowed the fight to last until the 7th round. They started to focus on the spell casters! Silly cleric kept healing them....

5/5 *****

Gary Bush wrote:
Ok, having ran this adventure this pat weekend, the whole time to travel should not be a problem with for a competent party to manage. My party made it to Torch in 4 days. There speed was 25 because the dwarf was loaned boots and the hell knight fighter bought a horse!

I am not sure how this is possible. With the lowest base speed being 25 you travel at 20 miles per day. This is halved due to the difficult terrain. It is 100 miles to Torch so that is 10 days just there.

1/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Agent, Online—VTT

andreww wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
Ok, having ran this adventure this pat weekend, the whole time to travel should not be a problem with for a competent party to manage. My party made it to Torch in 4 days. There speed was 25 because the dwarf was loaned boots and the hell knight fighter bought a horse!
I am not sure how this is possible. With the lowest base speed being 25 you travel at 20 miles per day. This is halved due to the difficult terrain. It is 100 miles to Torch so that is 10 days just there.

Presumably this is after accounting for the effects of searching for shortcuts. I know that between the horses, the preparation of heightened longstreet spells to make up for a couple of possible horse deaths, and crushing the shortcut checks, My party had a ton of time to spare.

1/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Agent, Online—VTT

andreww wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
Ok, having ran this adventure this pat weekend, the whole time to travel should not be a problem with for a competent party to manage. My party made it to Torch in 4 days. There speed was 25 because the dwarf was loaned boots and the hell knight fighter bought a horse!
I am not sure how this is possible. With the lowest base speed being 25 you travel at 20 miles per day. This is halved due to the difficult terrain. It is 100 miles to Torch so that is 10 days just there.

Presumably this is after accounting for the effects of searching for shortcuts. I know that between the horses, the preparation of heightened longstrider spells to make up for a couple of possible horse deaths, and crushing the shortcut checks, My party had a ton of time to spare.

5/5 *****

HammerJack wrote:
Presumably this is after accounting for the effects of searching for shortcuts. I know that between the horses, the preparation of heightened longstreet spells to make up for a couple of possible horse deaths, and crushing the shortcut checks, My party had a ton of time to spare.

Except that you do not do that until they acually reach the rendevous point.

However, it takes 5 exploration successes to negate the difficult terrain impact which gets you there in time. With anything less than that you will not arrive in time at 25 speed. Getting 5 exploration points is very far from certain. I ran it for a group with two druids, both with master proficiency in nature and they only ended up at 4.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

andreww wrote:
HammerJack wrote:
Presumably this is after accounting for the effects of searching for shortcuts. I know that between the horses, the preparation of heightened longstreet spells to make up for a couple of possible horse deaths, and crushing the shortcut checks, My party had a ton of time to spare.

Except that you do not do that until they acually reach the rendevous point.

However, it takes 5 exploration successes to negate the difficult terrain impact which gets you there in time. With anything less than that you will not arrive in time at 25 speed. Getting 5 exploration points is very far from certain. I ran it for a group with two druids, both with master proficiency in nature and they only ended up at 4.

I took each segment in turn. I did not look at all 4 segments in total. They never got a crit so never got to 5 EP.

The first 2 segments the party had 1, then 2, exploration points, so +5 mph. They had use of the spell "Wander's Guide" that cut the penalty for overland difficult terrain from 1/2 to 3/4 speed.

So in segment 1 and 2, they had base of 30 (25 + 5 from EP). This means they made 18 miles a day. So it took just under 2 days to make to Encounter A. They bypassed the fight and the delay by making the necessary checks and made it to the Steaming Fields on day 3 and was able to get past that with only 3 fails. The cleric really kept the party, and the lone horse, alive here. They continued on to Torch by the end of day 3. They spent a day in Torch before moving on.

On segment 3 and 4, they had 3 and 4 exploration points, giving them +10 mph, thus traveling 21 miles a day. Midway through day 5 they encountered the ambush. After 7 rounds of combat and 6 fireballs, they defeated the snipers. They were than able to move on to the Gorum Pots.

Ok, Looking again I had the distance wrong. 100 miles vs 150 miles.

I should have had the party reach Torch on Day 6. They still could have taken a day in Torch for day 7, and made it to the Gorum Pots mid-day on day 10.

Even with my mistake the party would have been on time as they did not hit any delays in their travel. But I did make a major mistake in my calculations.

Very much a learning experience.

5/5 *****

Gary Bush wrote:

I took each segment in turn. I did not look at all 4 segments in total. They never got a crit so never got to 5 EP.

The first 2 segments the party had 1, then 2, exploration points, so +5 mph. They had use of the spell "Wander's Guide" that cut the penalty for overland difficult terrain from 1/2 to 3/4 speed.

So in segment 1 and 2, they had base of 30 (25 + 5 from EP). This means they made 18 miles a day. So it took just under 2 days to make to Encounter A. They bypassed the fight and the delay by making the necessary checks and made it to the Steaming Fields on day 3 and was able to get past that with only 3 fails. The cleric really kept the party, and the lone horse, alive here. They continued on to Torch by the end of day 3. They spent a day in Torch before moving on.

On segment 3 and 4, they had 3 and 4 exploration points, giving them +10 mph, thus traveling 21 miles a day. Midway through day 5 they encountered the ambush. After 7 rounds of combat and 6 fireballs, they defeated the snipers. They were than able to move on to the Gorum Pots.

I think you may have misuderstood how the travel segment works. You roll once per segment, the most exploration points you can get in each segment is 2 if you get a crit. Only one PC rolls per attempt, other PCs can aid.

At the end of all four segments you total the number of exploration points and then apply the adjustment to the groups overall travel sppeed to work out how long it has taken them.

This is of course a crazy way of doing things but seems to be what the scenario is asking you to do. I suspect there were some changes made in development and the consiequences were not considered too well in the crunch to get it out as a gencon scenario.

Wanderers Guide does make a major difference but is only divine/occult. I doubt many bards or divine sorcerers are taking this as a spell known so you probably need a cleric to have it available (or occult/divine witch now).

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