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Got started thinking on this again as a result of a thread discussing proving magic in the real world. Anyway looking online there's a wide range of no correct answer values. So I figured I'd post a few here and see which people think looks best. The items I'm going to use for comparison are . . .
Common Coffee: 1 CP
Blanket: 5 SP
50' Hemp Rope: 1GP
Experienced Lawyer: 10 GP per day
Spellcasting: Caster Level x Spell Level X 10 GP per spell.
Masterwork Longsword: 315 GP
Decanter of endless water: 4,500 GP (Crafting cost not purchase price).
Below are the GP to $US I'm considering . . .
1 GP = US$ 12.60 (5E variant rule based on gold standard in the 1900's adjusted to modern prices)
1 GP = US$ 20 (Old D20 Modern value).
1 GP = US$ 104 (value someone worked out based on trade goods and comparitive values)
I will be converting these with a 20 to 40 percent mark up usual for wholesalers and hten rounding off to resonable amounts e.g. 70 cents vs 72 cents or 80 thosuand vs 80 thousand three hundred. . .
1GP = US$12.60
Common Coffee: US$ 1.5 to 1.8
Blanket: US$ 7.60 to 8.80
50' Hemp Rope: US$ 15.10 to 17.70
Experienced Lawyer: US$ 151 to 176 per day
Spellcasting: Caster Level x Spell Level X US$ 151 to 176 per spell.
Masterwork Longsword: US$ 4,700 to 5,500
Decanter of endless water: US$ 68,000 to 79,000
1GP = US$20
Common Coffee: US$ 2 to 2.8
Blanket: US$ 12 to 14
50' Hemp Rope: US$ 24 to 28
Experienced Lawyer: US$ 240 to 280 per day
Spellcasting: Caster Level x Spell Level X US$ 240 to 280 per spell.
Masterwork Longsword: US$ 7,500 to 8,800
Decanter of endless water: US$ 108,000 to 126,000
1GP = US$104
Common Coffee: US$ 12.5 to 14.5
Blanket: US$ 62.5 to 72.8
50' Hemp Rope: US$ 124 to 145
Experienced Lawyer: US$ 1,200 to 1,400 per day
Spellcasting: Caster Level x Spell Level X US$ 1,200 to 1,400 per spell.
Masterwork Longsword: US$ 39,000 to 45,000
Decanter of endless water: US$ 560,000 to 655,000
Now for me I think the top value of 104 runs the prices far too high so I'm inclined to rule that one out. Originally I was inclined to consider the 5E too low but on browsing some online information and allowing for the facts its US and would roughly double for dollar price where I live I'm actually inclined to adopt that over the D20 modern one. What do other people think is 1 GP having a nominal exchange rate of 12.5 US$ reasonable or do you think it should be higher/lower bearing in mind (1) these are united states dollars, (2) there'd be some item price shift due to industrialization and (3) these are just average items not top of the line (masterwork excluded) or specialty made items so while the GP would exchange for 12.6 an item may be more or less depending on world? For example a pathfinder hammer is 5 silver pieces or US$6 (using the 12.6 exchange) and most hammers are around 20 to 30 dollars with the cheapest rubber mallet at home depot only US$4 and the most expensive with magnet nail guide, custom grip and other features running up to $US50.
It doesn't work well
50 gold to the pound 1 pound of gold is ~ 19k
For my twisted worlds campaign I kept it simple and 1gp = $100. This meant that 1sp = $10 and 1cp= $1
it didn't make the prices of anything particularly strange. it makes a longsword $1,500 and a stay at a cheap inn $20 a night.
A decent, probably "masterwork" quality, sword is between $300-$700... these are high carbon, heat treated, battle-ready blades... like those made by Cold Steel or ZombieTools.
I knew a guy in the Army who had a WW2 relic Katana that costed his dad over $100,000... but it could cut silk dropped on top of the edge. I don't think this is what adventurers are buying, though.
And if we are converting make believe fantasy money into modern money that isn't even based on gold, then I figured we would be using modern techniques to manufacture the goods in question.
Using traditional methods, the 1gp = $104 price of $12-$14 for coffee sounds about right. I don't grow, import/export, trade, grind, package, or stock coffee on a regular basis... but somebody has to, and they have to make a living doing so.
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I knew a guy in the Army who had a WW2 relic Katana that costed his dad over $100,000... but it could cut silk dropped on top of the edge. I don't think this is what adventurers are buying, though.
And if we are converting make believe fantasy money into modern money that isn't even based on gold, then I figured we would be using modern techniques to manufacture the goods in question.
Using traditional methods, the 1gp = $104 price of $12-$14 for coffee sounds about right. I don't grow, import/export, trade, grind, package, or stock coffee on a regular basis... but somebody has to, and they have to make a living doing so.
Oh we are purchasing items made with modern methods your 300 sword that's almost certainly better than even a masterwork weapon (fewer impurities). I was just pointing out the issue with trying to use item in pathfinder = X, item in real world = Y therefore GP to dollar is Q unless you also start factoring in item prices in equivilent time periods, inflation and so on.
I'd imagine your friend's katana was probably the equivalent of masterwork given pathfinder only has normal, masterwork, magic. I like systems with multiple grades of normal item from improvised (I tie this rock to a stick behold my spear) to legendary (great weaponsmith created this as the pinacle of his work using techniques lost on their death). While magic items are an enhancement of that and you could have skull on a stick as a powerful enchanted item from day's when that was what was used. Sure weapons are better made now but it still unleashes wail of the banshee when you hit a human with it.
Annoyingly pathfinder's econonomy is shall we say wonky at best.
As is the issue with even the 3 I posted because they all have areas they break down. The first two is with the mid-range prices and the last one is with the lower end ones.
I'd imagine your friend's katana was probably the equivalent of masterwork given pathfinder only has normal, masterwork, magic. I like systems with multiple grades of normal item from improvised (I tie this rock to a stick behold my spear) to legendary (great weaponsmith created this as the pinacle of his work using techniques lost on their death). While magic items are an enhancement of that and you could have skull on a stick as a powerful enchanted item from day's when that was what was used. Sure weapons are better made now but it still unleashes wail of the banshee when you hit a human with it.
I feel that D20 modern had a reasonable approach. Since it was possible magic items didn't exist and it was largely dealing with modern equipment. They replaced masterwork with mastercraft. Mastercraft could be applied to an item up to 3 times and each time it increased the price of the item in an effectively exponential manner. Each level granted the item an enchancement bonus that could be applied to any of the items stats. So, you could have a mastercraft sword that adds +1 to dmg and +1 to hit. But you could also have a mastercraft sword that just added +3 to damage. It allowed for further customization w/o having to introduce magic.
Getting back on topic, in the end I think it depends on how much "power" you want gold pieces to have. Should they make you richer, poorer or some where in between? I feel that in the case of a universal money changer the goal should be to keep your overall wealth the same. If I go to buy a sword that is a single handed martial weapon that deals 1d6 damage it should proportionally reduce my character's wealth by the same amount regardless if they are spending gold coins or dollars.
I think something that gets lost is how unbelievably wealthy adventurers tend to be compared to the average person in pathfinder.
Back when characters would find themselves in a "real" world, I decided aa gold piece was comparable to a Krugerrand. At the time one was exchangeable for 20 dollars. Since then, Gold piece=20 dollars, silver piece=2 dollars, copper piece=20 cents. A platinum piece is worth 200 bucks. Of course the pawn shop owner will get much more from a collector, because they have the contacts.
Leave the "real" items at their "actual" prices because tinder twigs are not matches, and Wawa won't take gold pieces.
Wawa. Lol.
"Do you even know what a Wawa is, girl?"
-Bloodhound Gang [Pennsylvania]
Wawa is right down the street, Dude.
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Which is another reason I'm inclined to the 12.62 one. It's still a jump in price but you need to give the party a reason besides leg breakers to trade their GP in for dollars rather than gold content at the local gold exchange. Part of the reason I'm looking at this is the winter AP where the visit WW1 russia. The good thing about that one is the 12 dollar conversion is inflation adjusted for 2018 values. It also has one for 1920 which is 2 years after ww 1 and that's a 1 for 1 exchange. So in an actual game if you went from Golarion to earth it'd be an earth around 1915ish and you'd be traded GP for dollars but buying items at a much lower value than they currently cost.
Back then a man would earn around $US 687 and a woman around $US 344. At a hearing in March 1915, Dorothy Miller told a state minimum wage committee in Albany, New York, that she made $6 a week, which came to $312 a year. Out of that $6, she paid her parents $2.50 a week for room and board. According to The New York Times, she told the committee: "After I paid my actual necessary expenses every week, I had 40 cents left for clothes and amusements. And I was the envy of all the girls I worked with." On a 1 for 1 value a 20th level adventurer turning in all their WBL would have OVER a milleniums wages for the average man. That is a 20th level adventurer has made the equivalent of what someone would need to work (not counting for inflation) for 1,281 years to earn.
A family budget for a husband, wife and three kids, determined that they should be able get by on:
$28 a MONTH for food.
$4 for utilities, including fuel, light and ice for the ice box (which people used before electric refrigerators).
$1 for insurance, presumably life insurance.
$1.50 a month for streetcars.
$9 a month for everyone's clothing needs.
$1 a month for general household expenses, which would be $23.38 today.
Meaning your adventurer visiting earth could support a spouse and 3 kids for 44 GP 5 SP. That's 4 people for a month. If you want to up your lifestyle to no family and the middle class its . . .
$25 allotted for monthly rent. This category includes taxes and commuting costs.
$18.50 for operation expenses, which meant electric and heating costs, like coal, and general day-to-day expenses, like toiletries.
$37.50 a month for food.
$18.75 a month for clothes.
$25 a month for the "higher life," Defined as art, music, recreation and health care.
So your month long vacation to 1915 America would cost you 114 GP 7 SP 5 CP. 115 gold for a month vacation. In comparison staying at a good inns suite is 4 GP per night say 124 GP for a 31 day month. Not a bad comparison since the one in America gets you travel, food, clothes and art, music and recreation as well.
Its only if your travelling to a "modern" earth where you get the 12 dollar issues. Even so your adventurer is by WBL carrying around 11 million dollars worth of gear on them. This doesn't count whatever they've actually spent on lodging, etc or other sources of income (leadership, land ownership). Not a bad earning value. Jump to the 20 you get 17 million and the 102 is around 90 million. So I think its safe to go with the 12.6 variant as in the situation where you might actually have the travel in a game your looking at a very wealthy individual and even if you go to a modern world they're still a multi-millionaire just by what they're carrying around with them.
By level 2 (how fast does that happen?) your character has earnt the equivalent of nearly 2 years wages in 1915 money. By level 11 they'll have cracked their first million in 2018 money. When you think of it that way the adventuring lifestyle suddenly seems a lot more attractive.
You don't need to make it to 20th level just survive to lvl 6 and you'll probably have made over 20 years wages. Get to level 1 as a magic user and even your simple spells are earning you 5 to 10 gold a spell (or some pretty nice trade goods in a small village like some eggs and bacon). At 1 spell a DAY that's 1,800 gold a year just for one cantrip a day. Now you've earnt 3 years wages for barely any work.
Lets say your not a mage though you just want to earn enough to start a farm where you can settle down with your child hood sweetheart. In American 1915 an acre of farmland ranged from $42 most states to $115 Illanois. A pig is 3-10 gold, sheep are 2 to 20, no cows but yaks are there at 24 gold and can also pull your plow, a trained farmahnd would be 3sp - room and board a day. You only need to get to lvl 2 and a great start to that farm is pretty much yours, survive to level 6 and you're looking at possibly being able to set up a fully operational 200 acre farm on your retirement fund. Assuming we step out of the adventuring economy and live like a normal person? You can last for years on those funds, use them to buy an inn or set up a training compound for nobles to bring money in and you're set for life.
A level 20 character is almost certainly going to have some form of income in their "retirement". I vaguely recall seeing somewhere that an average level 10 adventurer can expect to make 500 gold profits a year from other sources than adventuring. That's a bit lower than the average 1915 value but that's profit not income whereas the 1915 one is income. This is also something they're doing around adventuring not their whole occupation. If you've actually retired and are now running that resturant, magic item shop, playhouse, tradinghouse, etc full time then they can probably up that significantly. If your a high level adventurer with your own lands and the like?
I think the differences in economic priorities and values renders the comparison next to impossible. Items that were carefully hand crafted before are now cheaply mass produced. Items that never existed then are now commonplace and relatively cheap. The economies would be rather difficult to compare directly.
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I think the differences in economic priorities and values renders the comparison next to impossible. Items that were carefully hand crafted before are now cheaply mass produced. Items that never existed ar endow commonplace and relatively cheap. The economies would be rather difficult to compare directly.
Well accoridng to Rowling the gold Galleon is worth around 5 pounds which is a worse exchange rate.
To do a small extrapolation 6.5 gold is roughly how much a basic trained commoner makes a week via Profession. So I think the dollar exchange rate should be something like the $100 dollars option if we're considering a more modern(2000s era) model due to inflation. Basically they can provide for themselves, but supporting a family on that alone is difficult.
Eh, backpacks are listed as 2gp and I just have never been able to get past the idea that anyone in anything resembling a medieval/renaissance society would pay gold for a simple backpack. Which makes trying to convert Pathfinder values into anything resembling real money just unworkable.
I think the best you could do is figure out what it cost to have a basic standard of living of some sort in both societies compare those two numbers and use that as the conversion rate other than that I don’t think you can get much more granular
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Well based on what I can find the average monthly salary in the US is around 3,500 after tax. A hireling is earning 3 to 9 goldpieces a month, a captain is getting 150 gold a month and a sage is pulling in 450 gold a month. Make of that what you will.
Of course even economicists are now saying that the economy is falling apart with the cost of living (inflation) rising at a faster rate than income so your dollar is becoming less and less valuable as the price's don't line up any more. Take housing in Sydney Australia for instance over the last decade they've skyrocketed in cost but income hasn't gone up that much meaning people are taking million dollar loans on the same salaries they used to take out loans of 1 to 2 hundred thousand for a large house in a good neighbourhood. Since 2009 alone 10 years they've doubled in cost that's a 550 thousand dollar home 10 years ago is now a 1.1 million dollar home but you're salary is still 80 thousand before tax.
I think the differences in economic priorities and values renders the comparison next to impossible. Items that were carefully hand crafted before are now cheaply mass produced. Items that never existed ar endow commonplace and relatively cheap. The economies would be rather difficult to compare directly.Well according to Rowling the gold Galleon is worth around 5 pounds which is a worse exchange rate.
We muggles would think it's fancy play money and would value it at actual gold content.