Hi all,
Need some advice. I'm planning out feat progression for my lvl 2 lizardfolk monk with sorcerer dedication (Detect Magic and Electric Arc are the cantrips)
Stats are Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 12 Cha 14
At level 3 I get a general feat and was thinking about Shield Block because there's no room in my build for Stand Still on other reactions so I thought Shield Block might be something to explore. But then realized that with my 8 in Int, it might be rough succeeding on repair checks to fix the shield and so I'd likely get Assurance Craft at 4
So my question for you all: is investment in Shield Block (and likely Assurance Craft) worth it for the reaction and the up to 9 HP it'll save me per fight?
Btw, I say up to 9 HP as I'm a smart enough player to know when NOT to absorb HP so that I don't go passed the shield's BT so that I'm able to retain the passive AC bonus I get from it when I use the raise shield action. Caveats to this general strategy will apply such as going past BT to keep me from going down, etc.
Thanks in advance for your help
Why not get the Shield Cantrip, instead of Detect Magic/Electric Arc. Then you can get Arcane Sense for the Detect Magic.
Otherwise, I think if you don't have another good 3rd actions and will not be investing in Reactions, then yes. If it fits your character concept and visuals, then it is worth it, specially if you invest on better blocking shields later on.
Shield block can be quite an investment, far beyond the general feat. To make any real use of it, you basically NEED to upgrade your shield regularly. Otherwise its hardness will hardly protect you from anything and it'll most likely break or even be destroyed from a single blocked attack. I had my level 4th fighter's heavy steel shield nearly one-shot just yesterday, and it wasn't even from a crit.
Unless you can spare the money to upgrade your shield every few level, I'd look into getting the Shield cantrip. If you're willing to invest a skill feat just to keep your shield going, maybe take up Arcanse Sense with that skill feat and learn Shield instead of Detect Magic via Dedication? You're probably increasing Arcana anyway since your cantrip combination indicates an Arcane Bloodline.
Why not get the Shield Cantrip, instead of Detect Magic/Electric Arc
Thanks Lightning Raven. I had thought about going this route too but was turned off by not having access to the cantrip's AC boost for 10 minutes if I do decide to use its reaction clause to absorb damage.
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Why not get the Shield Cantrip, instead of Detect Magic/Electric ArcThanks Lightning Raven. I had thought about going this route too but was turned off by not having access to the cantrip's AC boost for 10 minutes if I do decide to use its reaction clause to absorb damage.
That is true, but if you don't plan on using Sturdy Shields at higher levels the Shield Cantrip is better in most aspects, because other non-sturdy shield at higher levels will only be blocking once anyway.
I think this boils down to how much you want to go in this direction, if it is just a little bit the Cantrip is the best option since it's very useful and doesn't cost anything.
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Yeah to make shield blocking work, you need to keep upgrading your shield. The effect of that though is that it's going to have a higher item level, and therefore higher DC to repair with Craft. It's going to be almost impossible to keep that up with Assurance.
If you're playing PFS you can gamble that there'll be a smart wizard in the party. In a home game you'll know if there's someone with better Int and Crafting in the party. PF2 really expects the party to work together on these things, nobody has enough points to do everything themselves.
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Shield Block with a Sturdy Shield is a very good with a Monks action economy.
Note though, that at least about half of the damage reduction from using a shield - any shield - comes simply from the Raise Shield action for +2 AC. Blocking every round with a Sturdy Shield will about double that - any other shield will be a smaller gain.
But yeah, probably worth a feat for a Monk if you think you'll have the third action to keep it raised often (something which monks support).
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I had thought about going this route too but was turned off by not having access to the cantrip's AC boost for 10 minutes if I do decide to use its reaction clause to absorb damage.
That's pretty much what will happen if you don't upgrade your shield. One block and it's gone. The cantrip at least absorbs more damage before being destroyed. A physical shield does have the advante of a higher AC-bonus, though.
You should probably think less about the invested general feat and more about the invested money. Can't tell you if that's worth it to you.
Thanks all. You've given me a lot to think about (and I had forgotten about the Arcane Sense feat so thanks for the reminder). As I stated above my biggest concern with shield cantrip was not having access to it's AC bonus after I use its shield block reaction. But that flaw is negated by continuing to carry a normal shield, which I've established as a character tactic at level 1.
So I think I'll go shield cantrip with Arcane Sense as a feat investment (and for RP-purposes). After using cantrip's reaction to absorb some damage, use mundane shield for the passive AC bonus. I'll figure out some descriptive language to tie the two together so they don't come across in game play as two completely different kinds of actions.
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I had thought about going this route too but was turned off by not having access to the cantrip's AC boost for 10 minutes if I do decide to use its reaction clause to absorb damage.That's pretty much what will happen if you don't upgrade your shield. One block and it's gone. The cantrip at least absorbs more damage before being destroyed. A physical shield does have the advante of a higher AC-bonus, though.
You should probably think less about the invested general feat and more about the invested money. Can't tell you if that's worth it to you.
I would go a little more specific than that: you should decide what shield you want. Sturdy shields are great if you are blocking, but spell guard and several others are best used just to raise.
I had the same thought as Captain Morgan. There are a lot of interesting options for shields that don’t even need you to spend all those feats on supporting blocking. Pretty powerful for just the cost of the item and no feat investment.
I think my answer is, it depends on your role in the party you find yourself in. Are you the one expected to take a beating and stay on your feet? Shield blocking could be key. Are you the one expected to dart around getting be t position and dealing damage? Maybe just raising a shield is good enough and the fancy qualities of the specialty shields provide extra utility.
Thanks for pointing out specialty shields Captain Morgan and jdripley. That spellguard one looks pretty good and relatively cheap!
See also this thread. And probably like four others I don't feel like digging up.
note, you might consider using your physical shield as the primary, and have the cantrip at the backup, or used when you think there might be a reason to have the magical one up being better. The reason being that if you get hit by a known low HP damage, you can block without even damaging your shield, while the shield cantrip would be lost. Having the cantrip as you reserve shield, gives you the ability to regain an AC bonus easily after your shield is broken, and even leaves you a last ditch reaction as well.
Other instances where you might use the shield spell even when your physical shield is healthy, would be to block incoming magic missiles if you were expecting to come against a caster known for using them.
So some might find it odd, but I honestly see having a shield, and knowing the shield cantrip as being potentially complementary. In fact, if you are in high defense mode, and have extra free actions, you could raise your physical shield, and cast the shield spell. Then based on what type of attack comes at you, (magic missile, arrow with a lot of damage, or minor damage, etc) you can choose which shield to use to do the shield block. Even if the shield is broken by the blocked attack, the other shield would still continue to be providing the circumstance bonus to your AC.
Granted, how often do you have 2 actions to burn in a round? (and potential reaction) But on the other hand, if moving slowly into a dangerous room, you might find it worthwhile.
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note, you might consider using your physical shield as the primary, and have the cantrip at the backup, or used when you think there might be a reason to have the magical one up being better. The reason being that if you get hit by a known low HP damage, you can block without even damaging your shield, while the shield cantrip would be lost. Having the cantrip as you reserve shield, gives you the ability to regain an AC bonus easily after your shield is broken, and even leaves you a last ditch reaction as well.
Other instances where you might use the shield spell even when your physical shield is healthy, would be to block incoming magic missiles if you were expecting to come against a caster known for using them.
So some might find it odd, but I honestly see having a shield, and knowing the shield cantrip as being potentially complementary. In fact, if you are in high defense mode, and have extra free actions, you could raise your physical shield, and cast the shield spell. Then based on what type of attack comes at you, (magic missile, arrow with a lot of damage, or minor damage, etc) you can choose which shield to use to do the shield block. Even if the shield is broken by the blocked attack, the other shield would still continue to be providing the circumstance bonus to your AC.
Granted, how often do you have 2 actions to burn in a round? (and potential reaction) But on the other hand, if moving slowly into a dangerous room, you might find it worthwhile.
Agreed to have the cantrip as backup, even without the Block feat. And I love the trick of having the 2 blocks available.
Thanks Loreguard and The Raven Black, that's an interesting idea and one I might employ if I ever play a Fighter who MCs wiz/sorc. On this monk PC, I'm going with both the shield spell and physical shield (but without investing in shield block feat).
My PC is a frilled lizardfolk monk with dragon stance and I've built into his backstory that his tribe has a unique fighting style that emulates that majesty and ferocity of bronze dragons. The sorc dedication with draconic bloodline is used to flesh this concept out more.
I'm planning on describing the shield spell as electricity crackling around his shield arm and coalescing into a form that resembles a dragon's wing.
And after I uses the spell's reaction I'll go back to using the physical shield. And of course, when I'm in situations where it might not be wise to use magic, I'll use the physical shield instead (I just won't have the option of DR with it).
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I'm considering the spellguard shield for my monk too. A +2 on already-good saves gives me good odds to flip saves into criticals. And I don't have shield block so it doesn't matter to me whether the shield has good hardness/HP or not since I won't be using that aspect.