How would the spell "Desperate Weapon" interact with Shikigami Manipulation? Would the object conjured provide the enhancement bonus described in the feat? For instance, if I cast Desperate Weapon as an 8th level caster, does my caster level provide a +2 enhancement bonus while wielding the conjured object?
Shikigami Manipulation:
"While using Shikigami Style, you can treat any magical item you’re using as an improvised weapon as if it granted an enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls equal to the item’s caster level divided by 4 (minimum +1), to a maximum bonus of +5."
Desperate Weapon:
"You create a one-handed object that you might expect to see in your current surroundings, which you can then use as an improvised weapon. The spell conjures such an object near your hand such that you can retrieve it as you complete the spell.
No matter what sort of object you picked, it functions as a one-handed improvised weapon appropriate for your size and that deals 1d6 points of damage for a Medium creature (1d4 for Small creatures). The item deals the type of damage you choose (bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing) when casting the spell, though the object you request must conform to the damage type.
The spell ends prematurely if the improvised weapon leaves your grasp. The object has no value and can’t be used for other functions other than as an improvised weapon (for instance, this spell doesn’t allow you to conjure an expensive spyglass and sell it or use its other abilities, but you could still use it to beat someone over the head). The conjured object can’t already be a manufactured weapon, even in a location where you might expect to see manufactured weapons. It can be an object that would normally make for an unusual improvised weapon, like a herring at a fish market, and it still deals its full damage."
TIA.
This is a fun question. I want it to work. And I would allow it at my table.
I don't really know how the Caster Level interaction works with this, honestly. It is the Caster Level at which the item was created. However, the spell does not say that the item created is technically magical.
I could also see that line in the spell description about "it functions as a one-handed improvised weapon appropriate for your size" being a problem for the overly anal-retentive, but I would say that's its original size and the Shikigami Style virtual size increases still apply from there. But that has nothing to do with Shikigami Manipulation...
I don't think that an item you created by using magic is necessarily a magical item: the water you create using Create Water is not magic water.
Actually, it is - as it is wrought from... magic? Nonmagical water wouldn't disappear after a day, as per the spell description. That's splitting hairs, though.
I understand where your head's at with your example... and the skepticist in me reads the "magical item" language in the feat as exactly that and nothing else for the purpose of the enhancement bonus granted by the feat... so I guess it comes down to the table in question (pun intended) and how generous the GM is feeling. As someone who has played a character that used improvised weapons, however, I was heavily discriminated against at my table, and it was always an uphill battle to gain much in the way of impetus when it came to any arbitration, whether it was rules or circumstances. It was fun but it wasn't worth the constant struggle IMO.
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Shikigami Manipulation (Combat)
Source Martial Arts Handbook pg. 9
You channel a magic item’s power to enhance its improvised attacks, even though it was never meant to be used as a weapon.Prerequisites: Catch Off-Guard or Throw Anything, Shikigami Mimicry, Shikigami Style, Use Magic Device 5 ranks.
Benefit: While using Shikigami Style, you can treat any magical item you’re using as an improvised weapon as if it granted an enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls equal to the item’s caster level divided by 4 (minimum +1), to a maximum bonus of +5.
Special: A character with this feat and Equipment Trick who uses magical equipment to perform a trick can add a bonus equal to the item’s caster level divided by 4 (minimum +1) on skill or combat maneuver checks attempted as part of the trick.
The bolded parts say that it works only on magical items. An item conjured with magic isn't a magical item.
Both Desperate Weapon and Create Water are conjuration (creation) spells. Magic keep the item together, but the item isn't a magical item.Creation: A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates. If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence.
Out of topic discussion:
The above quote is interesting, as it removes the idea that Create water can be used to irrigate the desert. The spell manipulate matter, it does not summon it from another place or plane, so it is gathering it from around you and when the 24 hours end it is again dispersed in the ambient if not used.So it is essentially a water condenser, not a water creator.
It can be used to condense water for drinking or to irrigate a garden, but if you need to irrigate a large tract of land it ends stealing the water from the same soil you are irrigating.
It has the advantage that it purifies the water, so if you have a water source heavy in silt or salt and you cast this spell you draw the water from the river, leaving the sediment or salt back.
Great for separating pollution from water or to help the working of a salt evaporation pond while using the purified water in some other way.
Thaks, as I would never have noticed that without this thread.
The spell manipulate matter, it does not summon it from another place or plane, so it is gathering it from around you and when the 24 hours end it is again dispersed in the ambient if not used.
Not necessarily. According to Einsteins special theory of relativity, or more precise the mass–energy equivalence principle derived from that, an object's mass and energy are related, and you can transform one into the other. Based on that, I would deduce that a creation spell transforms (a big part of) the energy of the spell into matter, and when the duration of spell spell runs out, the (apparently instable) matter retransforms into energy (which dissipates leaving behind some remains called "lingering aura" that can be found with Detect Magic).
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The spell manipulate matter, it does not summon it from another place or plane, so it is gathering it from around you and when the 24 hours end it is again dispersed in the ambient if not used.Not necessarily. According to Einsteins special theory of relativity, or more precise the mass–energy equivalence principle derived from that, an object's mass and energy are related, and you can transform one into the other. Based on that, I would deduce that a creation spell transforms (a big part of) the energy of the spell into matter, and when the duration of spell spell runs out, the (apparently instable) matter retransforms into energy (which dissipates leaving behind some remains called "lingering aura" that can be found with Detect Magic).
Considering the quantity of energy that will generate the complete transformation of one cubic foot of water into energy, welcome to a big crater.
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Off Topic: That... doesn't seem like what that description says at all. What your describing sounds like teleportation, not creation. It doesn't say what matter is used at all, and it could just mean making the matter is manipulation. If a Creation spell isn't creating, I think it's mislabeled.
True, the description of conjuration (creation) spells when it sais "A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates." sound a lot like a transmutation effect, not a conjuration (creation) one. But it doesn't sound like teleportation at all. Teleportation is a different subset of the conjuration spells. This one instead manipulates matter (so something that is already at hand, as it lacks the summoning or teleportation label) and create something new with it.
My basic assumption is that magic (like most things in nature) will follow the path of lesser resistance. Creating water from vapor and moisture requires less work than creating it drawing the H2O from a distant place.Making the matter is even worse, as it will require enormous levels of energy, and the subsequent disappearance will release enormous levels of energy. Create water is a cantrip, not a mythic spell.
All included it is only a bit of thought about world-building, but I feel that it gives a bit of consistency of why there aren't huge arrays of permanent "create water" fountains to make arid lands fertile.
But conjuration (summoning) and conjuration (Teleportation) already cover the act of moving stuff and creature from long distances or other planes to the caster location, so it is not
Considering the quantity of energy that will generate the complete transformation of one cubic foot of water into energy, welcome to a big crater.
Nah, I think the energy goes back into the ethereal plane where the caster pulled it from in the first place. Or something like that.
The bolded parts say that it works only on magical items. An item conjured with magic isn't a magical item.
Both Desperate Weapon and Create Water are conjuration (creation) spells. Magic keep the item together, but the item isn't a magical item.
There is only one solution for a problem like this.
Buy a lesser extend metamagic rod. It sells for only 3,000gp and it has a caster level of 17.
You too can have a +5 weapon at 5th level.
There is only one solution for a problem like this.
Buy a lesser extend metamagic rod. It sells for only 3,000gp and it has a caster level of 17.
You too can have a +5 weapon at 5th level.
+4, actually. ;)
And that's pretty great, especially if you're a spellcaster.
But if you're looking to save a buck.