So, Batman is a Drifter with the Vigilante archetype?And Investigator Multiclass, yes. Or maybe Investigator with Drifter Multiclass. One of those things.
That’s a tough call. Honestly depends on what the MCDs look like more than the classes themselves, but that does sound close. If you were going on lore alone, drifter MCD Investigator Vigilante is probably the most chronologically accurate.
Edit: on a totally separate note Drifter and Vagrant are synonymous and it’s likely to be a martial class with strong prowess.
Almost like some kind of “murder hobo”.
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I found some of the ideas re: the Drifter class pretty cool, and threw together my take on it over on the homebrew forum if any of y'all are interested
The challenge on class naming seems to be the unwritten rule that they are one word. Mysterious Stranger fits what we are discussing but is two words. And Stranger really doesn’t sound right!How I came up with Drifter as a name: I plugged "Mysterious Stranger" into TV Tropes, and "The Drifter" was an associated subtrope.
Funny enough, thats almost exactly how I worked it out too. I also thought about "Stranger" but that seemed a little movie-ish.
I guess that's really what I'm badgering on about. The drifter as people are promoting it seems to lean very, very heavily onto the combat side, when both Paizo and a lot of gaming tables appear to want to lean away from that a bit and explore more of things.I very strongly disagree with this. Drifter, conceptually should have a lot of non-combat abilities tied to social stuff (especially, but not exclusively, Intimidation), Perception (reading people and their combat abilities at a glance, for example), and being mysterious, as well as coming from and arriving out of nowhere (so...plenty of Stealth stuff, but also anti-divination things, maybe a Focus Spell line involving teleportation or automatically being in the right place at the right time if you give them Focus Spell options).
Really, the 'combat' side of things is not even the part of Drifter I find interesting. As long as they're a full martial and competent to keep up with other full martials I'm not super particular about the combat side of things. It's all the neat non-combat thematics I'm interested in.
It's certainly a combat oriented fictional archetype, but as you say 'being good in a fight' is already readily available. It's everything else that fictional archetype has that I'm interested in seeing a Class for.
These are my feelings almost exactly. The theme is much much more than the weapon in hand. Its about the soul of the thing.
But I dont want the drifter thematic for a class that is based around prowess with weapons.
Not every weapon master of a unique style is a drifter afterall.
Which btw is why Gunslinger was a great name for a firearm based class. It has some conotations with drifting, but can also just be a lawman, or something else.
I am sure there should be another more appropriate that works for both of us.
I see this name as a lot like Rogue, Barbarian, and Ranger. They suggest a theme, but not every rogue has to be a criminal, nor every barbarian a "savage," nor every Ranger a wilderness roving hunter. Other things in the same vein might be Stranger, Ronin, or Warrior. However, none of them feel quite as good as Drifter, and one of them is just a synonym for Fighter.
I found some of the ideas re: the Drifter class pretty cool, and threw together my take on it over on the homebrew forum if any of y'all are interested
I'll have to take a look!
Edit: or...is it just they didn't really have any retorts and the ones they had were kind of lame?
My impression from the playtest was that we just had some placeholder retorts that'd get updated in the final version. Kinda disappointed to hear they got axed.
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Edit: or...is it just they didn't really have any retorts and the ones they had were kind of lame?My impression from the playtest was that we just had some placeholder retorts that'd get updated in the final version. Kinda disappointed to hear they got axed.
From what I remember, the Retorts are still in, they just axed the Retort trait since it was way too restrictive.
Oh? I must have misheard then.
Still, I like the idea of reactions setting up later actions. Cozzymandias’s version looked interesting.
Oh? I must have misheard then.
Still, I like the idea of reactions setting up later actions. Cozzymandias’s version looked interesting.
I believe I heard during the Paizocon APG stream that they were removed.
Edit: but I could be misremembering.
I want to be able to make Gun Chemist again. So, a gunslinger archetype would be extremely welcome.
I think the Ninja class could be reworked to have a broader umbrella than just an alternative Rogue.
I can already see some class paths for it. There could be Ninjas focused on Ninjutsu abilities, similar to Ki Spells from Monks, but covering more thematic aspects of the combat style. Another Ninja focused on Throwing weapons effectively (Shurikens, Kunais, Bombs, etc), that could offer some specific niche abilities that aren't covered by other throwing builds and an alchemist (The investigator is already engaging a little bit with alchemy). Then another class path focused on martial prowess, by taking advantage of all unique weapons they have.
Ninja just strikes me as something that can be handled fine in the archetype system either rogue ninja or monk ninja or spell caster ninja would hit most of the major fantasy options.
The Drifter sounds interesting (Gunslinger not so much), but Inquisitor is one I would still like to see in some form
The Drifter sounds interesting (Gunslinger not so much), but Inquisitor is one I would still like to see in some form
I had a ton of fun with inquisitor. Why not gunslinger? If you dont mind me asking. They are a well established part of Golarion lore and fit its renaissance era based fantasy pretty well.
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The Drifter sounds interesting (Gunslinger not so much), but Inquisitor is one I would still like to see in some formI had a ton of fun with inquisitor. Why not gunslinger? If you dont mind me asking. They are a well established part of Golarion lore and fit its renaissance era based fantasy pretty well.
'Cause despite the possible new themes, and the exploration and expansion of new feats and class features that could be used, a lot of people are stuck on the "1E Gunslinger made it so guns don't suck" mindset, don't believe the various concepts of Gunslinger are thematically interesting, and would rather Paizo just make Gunslinger a generic archetype any class can take so they can get access to guns.
There's also some wanting Gunslinger to be a style of Swashbuckler, 'cause 1E Swashbuckler was basically a Gunslinger with Panache instead of Grit. Despite how much 2E has changed up the way Swashbuckler's abilities work, and even giving them new abilities to flesh them out and give them much higher mobility than any other 2E class, the same line of thinking cannot ever be granted to the Gunslinger. They apparently are only around to give out guns, so no class for them.
Also, "guns?" Let's talk about that. It's been said previously that before Gunslinger in any capacity can exist, Paizo would need to publish a ton of new guns for the Gunslinger to use. But apparently, "guns" are being treated almost as if it were a single weapon group, like swords or hammers. What if they were more than one group? What if there was heavier weapon group of guns, treated with longer Reload times like crossbows, and a lighter weapon group of guns like the bow? What if they had spell-like abilities, like the example in Age of Ashes? What if they are something entirely new that none of us have taken the time to think of yet?
We simply don't know how wide and extensive the array of guns would be. They might even be both Martial and Advanced weapons. The matter of access is completely up in the air. And making assumptions based off of the admittedly janky 1E execution is probably not the best basis any longer. Gunslinger could easily be expanded to be a full-type class, access can be made easier via Traits, future General Training feats, or a Gunslinger multiclass archetype (and maybe introduce a separate generic archetype like the ones in the APG if access is still a concern).
I love thinking about the sheer possibilities that can happen for Gunslinger. But seeing so many people on the forums and other areas of the Internet brush off those possibilities of a full Gunslinger class due to the 1E execution, presumptions of Year-One 2E executions, and ignoring how other classes have been revamped from the ground up in downright exhausting.
Sorry, I hate having to rant like that. My apologies. But I really wanted to bring a different perspective on the matter for a change.