Two-bladed Sword build - Help me channel my inner Darth Maul

[Slyme]

I've been tossing around the idea of making a double weapon focused character to play in PFS, and I keep circling back to the Two-Bladed Sword. It seems like the "best" option out of the fairly lackluster double weapon options, both mechanically and aesthetically. I've never seen anyone locally play a double weapon based character in the 4 years I've been active in the local PFS scene, so it might be an interesting change of pace.

Since this is for PFS play, finesse is not a viable option, since all the means of getting finesse with a Two-Bladed Sword are either not PFS legal, or come online super later for PFS play.

So...I am looking at probably Slayer (or maybe Ranger) so I can get by with a minimal investment in Dex, and focusing on Str.

Most likely either Human or Half-Elf so I can nab the Exotic Weapon Proficiency at level 1, dropping the +2 stat into Str.

I was thinking of a stat array like:

Str: 17 (15+2 racial)
Dex: 15
Con: 13
Int: 13
Wis: 10
Cha: 10

Moving the odd numbers up to evens as I level.

For feats. I was leaning towards
1 - Two-Weapon Fighting
3 - Power Attack
5 - Two-Weapon Defense
7 - Distance Thrower
9 - Improved Critical: Two-Bladed Sword
11 - Accomplished Sneak Attacker

For Ranger Talents: (Favored Class bonus going into extra slayer talents to get 2 at level 6 and 2 at level 12)
2 - Ranger Combat Style: Double Slice
4 - Weapon Training: Two-Bladed Sword
6 - RCS: Improved TWF, Combat Trick: Throw Anything
9 - Bleeding Attack
10 - RCS: Two Weapon Rend
12 - Hunter's Surprise, Evasion

Gear would be pretty basic, probably a mithral agile breastplate for armor, belt of strength, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, cloak of resistance, boost of speed...only specialty item I could think of would maybe be Duelist's Vambraces to negate the TWF penalty on 1 offhand attack per round.

If HeroLab did the math right (using a +2 enchant on both ends of the sword), I would top out at 5 attacks per round (or 7 hasted), doing 1d8+19 main hand and 1d8+14 offhand with power attack, or 1d8+11 on both without. +19 base for the attacks, +3 with studied target, -4 if I power attack, +1 if hasted, +2 if I get into flanking (+25 max to hit self buffed with boots of speed against a studied target with haste and no power attack, +21 with PA, and dropping from there if missing haste, flank, etc.)

My thoughts on why I took throw anything and distance thrower was that I could lob the sword at something in an emergency...those 2 could easily be swapped out for something else.

Anyone see any glaring errors, have any suggestions to improve the build, comments, criticisms, etc?

Thanks :)

[Temperans]

I recomend considering changing Throw Anything for the Sharding property. Its honestly a lot more economical and it would allow you to benefit from Opening Voley (+4 on your next melee attack when you hit with a ranged Attack). But its really up to you.

In such a case a feat that prevent you from provoking becomes much better.

Also if you are thinking of throwing that blade, you probably want 2-handed Thrower to make it a standard action.

*********************

Btw if you want to channel Darth Maul more.

I recomend a 2-4 level dip into Aether Kineticist for the following talents: Pushing infusion (force shove), Kinetic Healing (for when an enemy leaves you for dead), Telekinetic Haul for when you want to move a boulder/cart/thing. And you can throw pebbles and twigs at people for significant effect.

[Slyme]

Sharding is definitely an interesting option, but at a +2 cost, that puts it outside of the budget for PFS play, at least until the extreme tail end of the normal play span, which ends at level 12 for standard PFS play. I wasn't super worried about provoking, throwing would be a last resort for when I cannot do anything in melee. Two- Handed Thrower didn't seem super useful to me either, as I will only have 1 weapon to throw, so taking a full round -vs- a standard action. I may just abandon the idea of throwing the sword and carry a bow or something for those emergency situations where I need to hit something at range.

I had thought about doing an aether kineticist for a while, but I wanted to focus more on just a martial focused badass that uses an exotic weapon than a true Jedi/Sith build. Plus, TWF with an exotic weapon is already pretty feat intensive, so it doesn't leave a lot of room for anything that doesn't give bonus feats and full BAB. If I ever decide to build a more "force" oriented character, a full on aether kineticist would be perfect though. :)

I had also considered dipping a couple levels into fighter to get more bonus feats, that or maybe barbarian to represent that Sith focus on anger. The level 10+ Slayer talents are awful nice though.

I had also briefly considered Magus, but it didn't really seem to be compatible with TWF and a double weapon.

[Scott Wilhelm]

I'd have you dip at least 1 level in proper Ranger, so you can use a Wand of Lead Blades. I'd have you take a level in Living Monolith, so you can use Enlarge Person 3/day as a Swift Action. Between the 2, your Base Damage will go up from 1d8 to 3d6.

I really like the Freebooter Ranger Archetype. As a Move Action, you can give your whole party +1 Attack and Damage against any single opponent you choose.

I'm not sanguine about Power Attack: you are already taking -2 on your Attack Rolls.

So this will mean you spend your first round of combat self buffing: Lead Blades as a Standard Action, Freebooter's Bane as a Move Action, Enlarge as a Swift Action, but that's reasonable.

Slyme wrote:

the Two-Bladed Sword. It seems like the "best" option out of the fairly lackluster double weapon options, both mechanically and aesthetically.

I disagree, mechanically, anyway. The Dire Flail is also a Double Weapon that does 1d8/1d8. It does Bludgeoning Damage, and it is also a Tripping and Disarming Weapon.

You can get Dire Flail proficiency for free if you play a Half Orc and take the Chain Fighter Alternate Racial Trait. I also like Sacred Tatoos--+1 on all Saves--and Shaman's Apprentice for Endurance. It tends not to matter in PFS, but I take the matter of Sleeping in my Armor very seriously. Also, Endurance is a prereq for that level in Living Monolith. It's also a prereq for Stalwart, which gives you DR, which I have never taken, but it seems like an interesting possibility.

I like Half Elf, too. I LOVE Arcane Training, which lets you use any magic wand of any single class. I'm thinking Arcanist, so you can use any Sorcerer or Wizard Wand such as Swift Girding which lets you don any suit of armor of yours as a Standard Action instead of the many minutes it can sometimes take. And there is that ability to be Proficient in any single Exotic Weapon as an Alternate Racial Trait.

For your Ranged capability, just take a 2nd level in Ranger and take Precise Shot. Use an Orc Hornbow or a composite bow. Between Gravity Bow and Enlarge Person, your arrows from your Orc Hornbow will do 4d6.

Another Race for you to look at is Tengu. Tengu have lovely features, including beginning play proficient in all Swords.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Another Double Weapon I've been lately enamored with is Halberd.

Take Spear Dancing Style Feats. Once you have taken all 3, your Pole Arm of choice will gain the Double, Finesseable, (not sure how you'd use that), and Reach Qualites, and the butt-end of your Pole Arm will do Damage like a Light Mace. Halberds do 1d10 Slashing or Piercing and are already Brace and Tripping weapons, so you will have a weapon that does 1d10/1d6 Piercing, Slashing, and Bludgeoning Damage, and is a Tripping, Brace, Double Reach Weapon!

[Scott Wilhelm]

Slyme wrote:

Since this is for PFS play, finesse is not a viable option, since all the means of getting finesse with a Two-Bladed Sword are either not PFS legal, or come online super later for PFS play.

I wrote:

Finesseable, (not sure how you'd use that)

Using Spear Dancing Style, you can make any single Pole Arm Finesseable, and your 3rd level in Unchained Rogue gives you Dex-to-Damage with any 1 Finessable weapon you choose.

you wrote:

Slayer... Accomplished Sneak Attacker

If you want, you could do Dex-to-Damage Finesse with a Double Weapon and lots of Sneak Attack Damage.

[avr]

On the other hand I'd enjoy playing this as an Ankou's shadow slayer without a multiclass. Two or three Darth Mauls would have to be scarier than one.

If you're going to throw something in a fight carry a couple of javelins or chakrams, they'll be more effective and easier to use. And you won't care if you lose them though that may not often be a concern in PFS.

[CopperWyrm]

To be honest, I think the archetype/class that best suits Darth Maul is the Mindblade Magus.

It allows him to perform spell combat with a double weapon.

Besides, the closest things to Jedi/Sith in pathfinder are probably psychic spontaneous half casters, with some martial capability.

Plus, the Mindblade creates his weapons from nothing, so you could have some good quality lightsaber activation cinematics happening there.

[RJGrady]

I don't know about this throwing stuff, I think you'd be better off carrying daggers and throwing two at a time.
I don't see anything about your feat choices I think you absolutely need to change. However, if you sneak attack is something you want to built on, getting Improved Feint is probably better than Accomplishing Sneak Attacker. But if you're focused on TWF, Weapon Focus, pound for pound, is one of the best damage boosters in the game.

[Slyme]

I'm pretty stuck on the Two-Bladed Sword. Mechanically, a couple of the other options are interesting, I am just not a fan of them visually.

I think I've decided to go ahead and drop the 2 throwing feats, even in PFS I would still need to go retrieve my sword to be able to use it the rest of the fight/scenario. Which could turn problematic.

Any suggestion for 2 feats to fill those spots that could improve my functionality with the two-bladed sword, or just general character boosts?

[Ryze Kuja]

If you're going to do a Two-Bladed Sword build with a Slayer, that's a great time to go for a Quick Dirty Trick build for setting up SnA with Blind. Not only does it debuff their AC by -2, but it also removes their Dex Bonus to AC, which makes your iterative attacks have a much higher accuracy.

Something like this:

Feats:

1 - Two-Weapon Fighting
3 - Power Attack
5 - Improved Dirty Trick
7 - Greater Dirty Trick
9 - Improved Critical: Two-Bladed Sword
11 - Dirty Tricks Master

Talents:

2 - Ranger Combat Style: Double Slice
4 - Weapon Training: Two-Bladed Sword
6 - RCS: Improved TWF, Combat Trick: Quick Dirty Trick
8 - Bleeding Attack
10 - RCS: Greater TWF
12 -

Get Haste from Boots of Speed for the extra attack, and Greater TWF for another extra attack, and you're looking at One Dirty Trick and 6 Attacks per round vs. a No Dex target.

[RJGrady]

Critical Focus and Bleeding Critical.

[Ryan Freire]

If you're starting at 15 dex already why are you worried about ignoring dex requirements with slayer/ranger? Might as well be a weaponmaster fighter and get access to Advanced Weapon training and a buttload of feats.

[Slyme]

I like the idea of the Dirty Tricks line, but I would have to do a bit more shuffling around to get Combat Expertise or Dirty Fighting first to qualify for Improved Dirty Trick. Or maybe take the Underhanded Trick talent then move down the rest of the line. I'll play around in HeroLab and see what I can come up with.

Critical Focus and Bleeding Critical aren't available until level 9 and 11, and it wouldn't stack with Bleeding Attack, so that probably won't work for this build.

Ryan Freire wrote:

If you're starting at 15 dex already why are you worried about ignoring dex requirements with slayer/ranger? Might as well be a weaponmaster fighter and get access to Advanced Weapon training and a buttload of feats.

15 Dex is a whole lot easier than 19 Dex, especially when your weapon cannot be used with Weapon Finesse and Dex to Damage, if there were an easier way to be able to go full finesse with this build, I would love to go that way. I only took the Dex to 15 so I would be able to qualify for the baseline TWF, and Two Weapon Defense without eating up all my ranger style feats.

[Ryan Freire]

Yeah but you can get yourself a belt for that last 4 by the time you need it, and most twf builds don't take the third feat anyway due to diminishing returns on ability to hit with it

[Slyme]

I could technically drop my dex all the way down to 10, and still get most of the TWF feats I need to pull off the build, but that leaves my AC a bit lower on a character that is already limited to only medium armor. 15 seemed like the best starting point, it isn't horribly point consuming for a point buy based character, it gets me a little better AC, some initiative, reflex saves, and also lets me get a couple nice bonuses like starting with TWF at level 1, and then being able to grab two weapon defense earlier than level 10+

Without the 15 dex I would only be able to grab TWF at level 2, ITWF at 6, then I would have to choose between TW rend, TW defense, and Double Slice for that level 10 ranger style feat. If I start with a 15, I can get all of them.

Since this is not a finesse based build, a Str belt works a lot better, and the +4 Str/Dex belt is too expensive. It all comes down to overall value...if I skipped Dex completely, I could start with a 20 Str instead of a 17...which would give me +1 to hit and damage, but it would cost me -2 AC, -2 reflex, -2 TWF feats, -2 initiative. So I felt it was worth starting it at a 15 instead of just ignoring it.

[JiaYou]

I wouldn't get hung up on Two-Weapon Defense since Dodge is generally better unless you fight defensively...and are you going to do that a lot? I still don't think it makes sense to have 4 odd numbers for PFS. Drop the 15 to a 14 and then...why a 13 in INT when Dirty Fighting is a thing? I'd bump Wis for Will saves. So

15+2 Str
14 Dex
13 Con
10 Int
14 Wis
10 Cha

[Slyme]

The 13 in Int was more because I didn't want to put that left over point into an 11 Wis or Cha, and I had initially thought about being able to take Combat Expertise, which I ended up not doing.

I'll be able to upgrade 3 of those 4 odd numbers to evens through the standard PFS levels, the 4th one is just a left over point that could have just as easily made a 5th odd number stat. I could easily flip that 13 from Int over to Wis for the +1 Will save and +1 Perception...Slayers get plenty of skill points per level, so I'll probably do that before I finalize the character.

The 15 Dex is also so I can start off with TWF at level 1, being able to also grab Double Slice and Two-Weapon Defense is just icing on the cake.

TWD gives a +1 shield bonus whenever you wield 2 weapons or a double weapon, and an extra +1 when fighting defensively...so it is basically Dodge, with an extra option for when you want to go full defense.

[JiaYou]

Forgot about Double Slice. Makes more sense then. TWD though is a shield bonus so doesn't add to touch AC...I don't play PFS so I can't comment on the relative benefits of either feat. I get that you're evening the odds as you level up but your last ability point is at level 12, so it's helping you for all of three sessions, right? I don't think dropping CHA is always a good thing but an 8 CHA then gives you the extra points to buy a 14 and then only have 3 odds to even out later.

But then, I'm an optimizer. I could just as easily convince myself to have these stats:

STR 17
DEX 15
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 12

[Slyme]

There are a couple stat layouts I could potentially go with. Ranging from most to least min-maxed.

I am leaning towards the last one, with the third one close behind. PFS has a pretty good mix of social and combat encounters, so I generally try not to dump my mental stats, and the combat stuff tends to be geared more towards the low optimization end of the spectrum, so it is more friendly towards newer players and RP.

Str 17 - 18 - 17 - 17 - 17
Dex 15 - 15 - 15 - 15 - 15
Con 16 - 14 - 14 - 14 - 13
Int 10 - 10 - 10 - 10 - 10
Wis 10 - 10 - 13 - 12 - 13
Cha 7 - 8 - 8 - 9 - 10