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This always bothered me, as they are one of only a few high-level monsters to not have it (the only other examples I can think of off hand are high level giants and golems, and in the latter case it's because they already have magic immunity.)
The example lich in Bestiary 1 has globe of invulnerability prepared, divine caster lichs can go for spell resistance, even psychic has spell resistance on the spell list. So the lich needs innate SR less urgently than a non-caster. 6th-level casters might profit more from SR than 9th-level ones, but they are rarely seen as lichs.
Given they have a lot of immunities already (undead, no damage from cold or electricity), casting PCs are challenged even without SR, anyway.
Also Liches aren't "high level monsters". Lich is a template. If you follow the flavor text it will be a minimum CR 12 creature that is an 11th level casting class. Sure, it could be a CR 21 and have the casting power of a 20th level character, but if you ignore the fluff you could have a CR 3 Lich.
It specifically says a lich must be an 11th level or higher caster to make a phylactery (which is required to become a lick, and it can't have someone else make one for it.) and, while I guess 11 isn't THAT high, the spell legend lore still considers anything with a level of 11 or higher legendary, plus most liches in official works are higher than that. Also, I noticed graveknights (which are basically the melee version of liches) DO have SR, which makes it seem even weirder.
...Also, I noticed graveknights (which are basically the melee version of liches) DO have SR, which makes it seem even weirder.
Also Liches aren't "high level monsters". Lich is a template. If you follow the flavor text it will be a minimum CR 12 creature that is an 11th level casting class. Sure, it could be a CR 21 and have the casting power of a 20th level character, but if you ignore the fluff you could have a CR 3 Lich.
I was going to bring this up. But the reason is legacy, really. I can see variant liches having spell resistance, or just be a drow :P
The reason they don’t have spell resistance it they don’t need it. To start with they are immune to anything requiring fortitude save unless it affects an object. Then they are immune to all mind affecting effects. Between the two of those that covers a huge amount of spells. Then the get immunity to bleed, death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, nonlethal damage, ability drain, energy drain, damage to physical ability scores, exhaustion, and fatigue just for being undead. Then the lich template adds immunity to cold and electricity. On top of that they are spell casters with the feat craft wondrous item. So they can create magic items to give them protection vs the few things they are not flat out immune to. And last but not least they are also spell caster and usually full spell casters which means they can cast defensive spells.
But the real reason they don’t have spell resistance is so that an arcane caster can do something other than sit around doing nothing while paladin does all the work.
The reason they don’t have spell resistance it they don’t need it. To start with they are immune to anything requiring fortitude save unless it affects an object. Then they are immune to all mind affecting effects. Between the two of those that covers a huge amount of spells. Then the get immunity to bleed, death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, nonlethal damage, ability drain, energy drain, damage to physical ability scores, exhaustion, and fatigue just for being undead. Then the lich template adds immunity to cold and electricity. On top of that they are spell casters with the feat craft wondrous item. So they can create magic items to give them protection vs the few things they are not flat out immune to. And last but not least they are also spell caster and usually full spell casters which means they can cast defensive spells.
But the real reason they don’t have spell resistance is so that an arcane caster can do something other than sit around doing nothing while paladin does all the work.
It's already been pointed out that graveknights have pretty decent SR, and potentially they can be spellcasters too.
Also by that level spellcasters supports start thinking about getting around SR anyway.
I don't think liches need SR without taking a defense away or increasing CR.
Unless the lich was prepared for combat in advance, having Spell Resistance would be a massive impediment to its combat abilities as it would either have to sacrifice a combat round to lower its SR or run the risk of wasting a round on its self-buffs failing.
Unless the lich was prepared for combat in advance, having Spell Resistance would be a massive impediment to its combat abilities as it would either have to sacrifice a combat round to lower its SR or run the risk of wasting a round on its self-buffs failing.
Is that really how SR works? I always assumed beneficial spells just ignore SR unless the recipient explicitly says they are trying to resist it (unless the "beneficial" spell would actually be harmful to the target, such as heal vs undead.)
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Unless the lich was prepared for combat in advance, having Spell Resistance would be a massive impediment to its combat abilities as it would either have to sacrifice a combat round to lower its SR or run the risk of wasting a round on its self-buffs failing.
The rules don't seem to reflect this
A creature’s spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities.
now it does typically become an issue when a PC with SR wants the cleric to heal them since it can accidently block the healing spell, since its an external source
Graveknights aren't liches and liches aren't graveknights. That's just what the templates are.
Fluff reason could be whatever you want. The process of making a lich is pretty complex, whereas a graveknight's existence is anything from a spontaneous fluke to a divine punishment, so who knows what forces have to be balanced against each other and what their costs are. It certainly makes sense you'd have more reason to build that kind of protection into a graveknight, since their armour is going to be in immediate danger if they get destroyed. Meanwhile the lich can go sit in another room and prepare while you fight his pet graveknight, and even if he gets destroyed, odds are you still don't know where his phylactery is.
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Unless the lich was prepared for combat in advance, having Spell Resistance would be a massive impediment to its combat abilities as it would either have to sacrifice a combat round to lower its SR or run the risk of wasting a round on its self-buffs failing.Is that really how SR works? I always assumed beneficial spells just ignore SR unless the recipient explicitly says they are trying to resist it (unless the "beneficial" spell would actually be harmful to the target, such as heal vs undead.)
I've always assumed the opposite its a barrier shield that blocks magic so it wouldn't discriminate between helpful/harmful especially given how vague a line that can be in some cases. Add to that it not being under the persons direct control you can't voluntarily choose to fail to resist like you can choose not to dodge and for me SR is a two edged sword blocking everything good and bad aimed at you. The only excpetions are if its something under the PC's control e.g. a cloak of spell resistance which they might depending on the clock be able to turn on/off or if the caster has an ability to specify certain magics are not blocked.
I don't know of any abilities that do the second one but I do know of a mythic anti-magic variant that allows the caster to not affect their own spells just other peoples so it might exist.
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Unless the lich was prepared for combat in advance, having Spell Resistance would be a massive impediment to its combat abilities as it would either have to sacrifice a combat round to lower its SR or run the risk of wasting a round on its self-buffs failing.
Any caster powerful enough to turn itself into a Lich will be prepared for combat. They likely have powerful divination magics set up to warn them well in advance of any threat, and contingency plans in place for the off chance they get surprised or just flat out beaten.
A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).
A creature’s spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities.
RAW, anything that has SR can buff itself with zero problem...it can also voluntarily drop its SR to allow minions or items buffs to work on it.
I think it's actually kind of nice to think not all high-level monsters need SR. How about some variety? Liches already have a ton of immunities and defensive spells, and very likely could have a magic item with SR anyway.
About the lowering SR thing again: does that mean if an ally wants to heal you they have to get through your SR to do so (unless you lower it before hand)? I always thought beneficial spells just ignored it but I guess I've been wrong all this time?
About the lowering SR thing again: does that mean if an ally wants to heal you they have to get through your SR to do so (unless you lower it before hand)? I always thought beneficial spells just ignored it but I guess I've been wrong all this time?
yes, you would need to lower it first. For example, look at the spell bless. It states that SR applies though the spell effect is harmless. Even though no sane creature would ever want to resist the effects of the bless spell. Its one of the things that made playing drow kind of annoying in 3.0. SR attempts to automatically block all spell effects regardless if they are harmful or not. Provided the effect is coming from an outside source.
SR has a lot of weirdness because "anti-magic" introduced in earlier editions was supposed to be an exotic defense. But now it's on everything.
Why would they get SR? Undead do not get SR by default. Casters do not get SR by default. So why would a caster who becomes undead get SR just for becoming undead?
Why would they get SR? Undead do not get SR by default. Casters do not get SR by default. So why would a caster who becomes undead get SR just for becoming undead?
Many powerful undead (and monsters in general) get SR as an added layer of defense against spellcasters.
That's as much as I can tell.
I mean, why do Graveknights get SR?
MOST monsters above CR 10 or so have SR. In general, the only ones that don't are giants (for some reason) and non-sentient creatures.
Personally I am fine with Liches not having SR, they are hard enough to "kill" as it is.