jbadams |
Taking a cue from Dairfaron's thread replacing the last one that went off topic, let's have a version of this discussion without anything inflammatory and for on topic replies only.
The on topic snippets from our original thread:
I'll get the ball rolling with my own personal #1 fave....
ASH SUBDOMAIN
Wall of Ashes (Su): At 8th level, you can create a wall of swirling ashes anywhere within 100 feet. This wall is up to 20 feet high and up to 10 feet long per cleric level you possess. The wall of ash blocks line of sight, and any creature passing through it must make a Fortitude save or be blinded for 1d4 rounds. The wall of ash reveals invisible creatures that are inside it or adjacent to it, although they become invisible again if they move away from the wall. You can use this ability for a number of minutes per day equal to your cleric level, but these minutes do not need to be consecutive.Such is the effectiveness of this in terms of battlefield control or debuff or concealment effect that I have played clerics that used this more than actual spells themselves!
So many uses, so many uses per day and an auto scale DC..... simply wonderful!
Question: Is it required/implied that each use is for a minute? I assume so but wasn't sure. Second (more important) question: how thick is the wall? I was thinking I could use it to blind enemies in a line by dropping it on them.
Please stay on topic everyone. :)
jbadams |
I'm quite fond of the Liberation Domain's Freedoms Call power for support characters:
Freedom’s Call (Su):
At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura of freedom for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. Allies within this aura are not affected by the confused, grappled, frightened, panicked, paralyzed, pinned, or shaken conditions. This aura only suppresses these effects, and they return once a creature leaves the aura or when the aura ends, if applicable. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
avr |
The animal domain which gives you an animal companion - at level-3, though that's easily corrected by a feat - is an oldie but a goodie.
Water/flotsam subdomain gives you free scrolls, potions or other consumables:
MrCharisma |
The HEROISM subdomain (glory) is pretty good. Who doesn't love a swift action group buff to everything that stacks with pretty much everything?
At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura of heroism for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. Using this ability is a swift action. Allies in the area are treated as if they were under the effects of heroism. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
Or the TACTICS subdomain (war) ...
Whenever you and your allies roll for initiative, you can grant one ally within 30 feet the ability to roll twice and take either result. This decision is made before results are revealed. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
You can use it on yourself to get all the buffs/debuffs going, or use it on another player to make sure they get the drop on the enemy.
doc roc |
I'm quite fond of the Liberation Domain's Freedoms Call power for support characters:
Freedom’s Call (Su):
At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura of freedom for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. Allies within this aura are not affected by the confused, grappled, frightened, panicked, paralyzed, pinned, or shaken conditions. This aura only suppresses these effects, and they return once a creature leaves the aura or when the aura ends, if applicable. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
This is extremely powerful due partly to its synergy with the 1st level power.
As an 8th level cleric, you are in effect immune to anything that stops you from moving in the way that you would want.
Cavall |
I am a massive fan of Flotsam domain, which while it gives you broken items you can use like wands with charges that cost double... you get make whole as a domain spell! Basically turning your domain spell into multiple use wands of anything you can think of.
This means at 6th level you can use make whole on a broken wand (2nd level domain) and get a free 4th level wand. At 9th level you get 2 charges. At 12th you dont even need to cast make whole they arent broken anymore.
Crazy versatile and good
Cavall |
avr wrote:
Water/flotsam subdomain gives you free scrolls, potions or other consumables:
** spoiler omitted **How would you calculate the value of a wand with only 10 charges?
Eg) Mage armour with a CL=1
50 charges. 10 charge is 20% the cost. Seems pretty easy. That's 150 gp. It's broken so 2x charges so 5 uses.
But if not used in 24 hours it's gone so theres some balance.
LordKailas |
How about the Death domain
Death’s Embrace (Ex): At 8th level, you heal damage instead of taking damage from channeled negative energy. If the channeled negative energy targets undead, you heal hit points just like undead in the area.
It makes it so that negative energy heals you. The important thing to note is that unlike other similar abilities it doesn't alter the way positive energy works on you. It also requires no activation. Get hit with negative energy, you heal. Get hit with positive energy, you also heal from that. Someone channels positive energy to do damage, you're fine. Someone channels negative energy to do damage... you actually heal instead, even though that's not how its supposed to normally work.
doc roc |
CHARM DOMAIN
Charming Smile (Sp): At 8th level, you can cast charm person as a swift action, with a DC of 10 + 1/2 your cleric level + your Wisdom modifier. You can only have one creature charmed in this way at a time. The total number of rounds of this effect per day is equal to your cleric level. The rounds do not need to be consecutive, and you can dismiss the charm at any time as a free action. Each attempt to use this ability consumes 1 round of its duration, whether or not the creature succeeds on its save to resist the effect.
A great one here.... swift action and auto scale DC
doc roc |
Another personal fave of mine, on most campaigns this ability will get some serious use and has some great bonuses.
CAVES SUBDOMAIN
Tunnel Runner (Su): At 8th level, you can move through tunnels and caves with ease. Activating this ability is a standard action. You can move across any stone surface as if under the effects of spider climb. You can also see very well in darkness, gaining darkvision out to a range of 60 feet. If you already possess darkvision, extend the range by 60 feet. While underground, you also gain an insight bonus equal to your cleric level on Stealth skill checks and an insight bonus equal to your Wisdom modifier on initiative checks. You can use this ability for 1 minute per day per cleric level you possess. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but they must be spent in 1-minute increments.
Mudfoot |
doc roc wrote:50 charges. 10 charge is 20% the cost. Seems pretty easy. That's 150 gp. It's broken so 2x charges so 5 uses.How would you calculate the value of a wand with only 10 charges?
Eg) Mage armour with a CL=1
That's certainly defensible, but it's not really balanced or justifiable. After all, the value of something is what someone will pay for it, and the cost of something is what it costs to make (plus profit). I submit that a wand with 1 charge is not worth 2% of the same wand with 50 charges, especially if few people will want to use all 50 charges.
Take a wand of Remove Disease, which you might like in the above situation if 3 of the party have been whapped by a Mummy. You want 3 charges, maybe a few more. But not 50. In this case, a wand with 10 charges is absolutely fine and just as good as a new one.
Even a wand of Fireball isn't worth its full 50 charges. By the time you've been through 50 APL=EL encounters, it's long gone obsolete and not worth the action to use.
So IMC, the cost of a partially-charged wand is proportional to the square root of the number of charges. 10 charges is sqrt(10/50) x full cost = 44.7%. YMMV, of course.
ObDomain: Nobility gives you Leadership, but better. Broken, or just a feat?
Cavall |
Cavall wrote:doc roc wrote:50 charges. 10 charge is 20% the cost. Seems pretty easy. That's 150 gp. It's broken so 2x charges so 5 uses.How would you calculate the value of a wand with only 10 charges?
Eg) Mage armour with a CL=1
That's certainly defensible, but it's not really balanced or justifiable. After all, the value of something is what someone will pay for it, and the cost of something is what it costs to make (plus profit). I submit that a wand with 1 charge is not worth 2% of the same wand with 50 charges, especially if few people will want to use all 50 charges.
Take a wand of Remove Disease, which you might like in the above situation if 3 of the party have been whapped by a Mummy. You want 3 charges, maybe a few more. But not 50. In this case, a wand with 10 charges is absolutely fine and just as good as a new one.
Even a wand of Fireball isn't worth its full 50 charges. By the time you've been through 50 APL=EL encounters, it's long gone obsolete and not worth the action to use.
So IMC, the cost of a partially-charged wand is proportional to the square root of the number of charges. 10 charges is sqrt(10/50) x full cost = 44.7%. YMMV, of course.
ObDomain: Nobility gives you Leadership, but better. Broken, or just a feat?
Value of the item is what youd pay to buy from a vendor. Vendor doesnt sell leather cheaper to a party because they find it less useful than a lower level party.
That's just a house rule you're making up.
Flotsam finds broken items discarded in the water. That's what it does. It's entirely reasonable to find a broken wand with most of its charges used up. And not only reasonable, exactly within the wording and rules given.
Nothing in pathfinder is sold by the square root of anything. I reject your submission.
MrCharisma |
I believe in PFS you can buy a wand with 25 charges for half cost. This would indicate that Paizo values wands by their charges (I've never played PFS, so if I'm wrong let me know).
Either way the value of a spell is not equivalent to the value of the wand - a wand of Celestial Healing does nothing and costs the same as any other first level wand.
Mudfoot |
Value of the item is what youd pay to buy from a vendor. Vendor doesnt sell leather cheaper to a party because they find it less useful than a lower level party.
In a free market economy he does. If party X doesn't want the leather, they're not going to pay as much for it as party Y who do. The salesman may not sell it to them, but he's lost a sale and his kids go hungry. It's capitalism. Of course the RAW PF economy isn't remotely realistic in a vast swathe of cases, so this isn't reflected in the rules. PF doesn't even have a Bargaining skill (maybe Diplomacy?) which would allow a higher-level, more skilled, party to pay less.
Indeed, which is why I said IMC and YMMV.That's just a house rule you're making up.
Nothing in pathfinder is sold by the square root of anything. I reject your submission.
As is your eminent right. Which you will regret. Your doom with be slow and horrible. They are coming.
MrCharisma |
Cavall wrote:In a free market economy he does. If party X doesn't want the leather, they're not going to pay as much for it as party Y who do. The salesman may not sell it to them, but he's lost a sale and his kids go hungry.
Value of the item is what youd pay to buy from a vendor. Vendor doesnt sell leather cheaper to a party because they find it less useful than a lower level party.
The problem with this is that 99% of the sales won't go to PCs and adventurers. The value we place on items doesn't diminish the fact that a king outfitting his army can save a bazillion gold by outfitting his army with Hide Armour rather than Full Plate.
Quentin Coldwater |
My first PFS Cleric had the Cloud subdomain, and I got decent use out of the Thundercloud ability. It's sorta similar to OP's Ash domain, but has different uses.
Thundercloud (Su): At 8th level, you can, as a standard action, summon a storm cloud. This power functions as fog cloud except that creatures inside the cloud are deafened and take 2d6 points of electricity damage each round from the flashes of thunder and lightning. Once created, you can concentrate on the cloud to move it up to 30 feet each round. You can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
It's a movable Fog Cloud spell, which is freely dismissable (at the start of your turn). The damage is neglectable, but a sudden fog can cut line of sight for enemies and disable attacks of opportunity for creatures with reach.
I mean, it's not as mechanically strong as Freedom of Movement, Heroism, an animal companion, or whatever, but it's got some good utility, IMHO.
I believe in PFS you can buy a wand with 25 charges for half cost. This would indicate that Paizo values wands by their charges (I've never played PFS, so if I'm wrong let me know).
You can usually only buy fully charged wands. Sometimes you can find a wand that has a reduced amount of charges, but that's an exception, not the rule.
Cevah |
I am a massive fan of Flotsam domain, which while it gives you broken items you can use like wands with charges that cost double... you get make whole as a domain spell! Basically turning your domain spell into multiple use wands of anything you can think of.
This means at 6th level you can use make whole on a broken wand (2nd level domain) and get a free 4th level wand. At 9th level you get 2 charges. At 12th you dont even need to cast make whole they arent broken anymore.
Crazy versatile and good
A typical wand has Armor Class 7, 5 hit points, hardness 5, and a break DC of 16.
Items that have taken damage in excess of half their total hit points gain the broken condition, meaning they are less effective at their designated task. The broken condition has the following effects, depending upon the item.
If the item is a wand or staff, it uses up twice as many charges when used.
So a typical broken wand has 1 or 2 hp. The Mending cantrip restores 1d4 hp in 10 minutes. You have a 7 in 8 chance of fixing the broken condition. Spend 10 more minutes if you fail the first time. As opposed to Make Whole which fixes a minimum 3d6 in ten minutes and uses up a spell slot you probably want for something else.
Here is what you can retrieve:
Level|GP|1st|2nd|3rd|4th
6|300|20|3|1|0
7|350|23|3|1|0
8|400|26|4|1|0
9|450|30|5|2|1
10|500|33|5|2|1
11|550|36|6|2|1
12|600|40|6|2|1
13|650|43|7|2|1
14|700|46|7|3|1
15|750|50|8|3|1
16|800|50|8|3|1
17|850|50|9|3|2
18|900|50|10|4|2
19|950|50|10|4|2
20|5000|50|50|22|11
By the time you can get a wand of a 4th level spell, you have sufficient CL to mend it.
Just be sure to use it within 24 hours, because that is how long it lasts.
/cevah