Best 1st-level domain powers (new thread)


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Since the actual thread got way too derailed, here is a new thread to properly discuss the topic. I will quote any relevant post from the other thread here so that we can keep on posting. And if anyone dares coming up with the same off-topic stuff that killed the last thread, I'm going to personally flag him/her.

Please discuss!

doc roc wrote:

LIGHT SUBDOMAIN

Blinding Flash (Su): As a standard action, you can emit a flash of light from your holy symbol or divine focus. The most powerful light emanates out 20 feet from you. Creatures with fewer Hit Dice than your cleric level within this area are blinded for 1d4 rounds unless they succeed at a Fortitude save. All creatures in this area are dazzled for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum 1). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

A very useful spammable AOE debuff against low-mid level difficulty monsters that auto scales. Blindness is nasty.

TRICKERY DOMAIN
Granted Powers: You are a master of illusions and deceptions. Bluff, Disguise, and Stealth are class skills.

Copycat (Sp): You can create an illusory double of yourself as a move action. This double functions as a single mirror image and lasts for a number of rounds equal to your cleric level, or until the illusory duplicate is dispelled or destroyed. You can have no more than one copycat at a time. This ability does not stack with the mirror image spell. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

A great one if you're a cleric looking to become a deputy rogue or a tanky cleric that is likely to get hit.... basically a 50% miss chance.

LOVE SUBDOMAIN
Adoration (Su): As an immediate action, you can attempt to thwart a melee or ranged attack that targets you. This ability functions as sanctuary, but only against one individual attack. You must use the ability after the attack is declared but before the roll is made. The creature attacking you receives a Will save to negate this effect. If a creature has more than one attack, this ability only affects one of the attacks. You can use the ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier. This is a mind-affecting effect.

Here's one that I dont think gets enough love.... pardon the pun! It auto scales, spammable and works against melee and ranged. In some respects its better than the actual Sanctuary spell as its an immediate action.

TRAVEL DOMAIN
Granted Powers: You are an explorer and find enlightenment in the simple joy of travel, be it by foot or conveyance or magic. Increase your base speed by 10 feet.

Agile Feet (Su): As a free action, you can gain increased mobility for 1 round. For the next round, you ignore all difficult terrain and do not take any penalties for moving through it. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Here's one that everybody knows about.. the +10 speed is gold by itself and Agile Feet has both in and out of combat applications.

Valandil Ancalime wrote:

LUCK DOMAIN
Granted Powers: You are infused with luck, and your mere presence can spread good fortune.

Bit of Luck (Sp): You can touch a willing creature as a standard action, giving it a bit of luck. For the next round, any time the target rolls a d20, he may roll twice and take the more favorable result. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Wonderstell wrote:

FREEDOM SUBDOMAIN
Liberty’s Blessing (Sp): You touch a willing creature as a standard action, granting it a boon. A creature with this boon can, as a swift action, make a saving throw against a single spell or effect it is suffering from that grants a save. The DC of the saving throw is equal to the original DC of the spell or effect. If the saving throw is successful, the effect ends. This boon lasts for 1 minute or until successfully used to remove a spell or effect, whichever duration is shorter. You can use this ability for a number of times equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Condition removal for everyone! Smack your ally with one of these and they get 10 attempts to re-do the save they failed in the first place. It won't help against ability drain or negative levels from being raised, but pretty much anything else can be solved by taking a quick break.
It's a great choice for Believer's Boon for martials if you lack a divine caster in the party.

doc roc wrote:

MADNESS DOMAIN
Vision of Madness (Sp): You can give a creature a vision of madness as a melee touch attack. Choose one of the following: attack rolls, saving throws, or skill checks. The target receives a bonus to the chosen rolls equal to ½ your cleric level (minimum +1) and a penalty to the other two types of rolls equal to ½ your cleric level (minimum –1). This effect fades after 3 rounds. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

One of the best abilities in the entire game IMO relative to its level.... it auto scales, has no save, lasts multiple rounds, spammable, the bonus is untyped, has uses out of combat to boost skills, combines brilliantly with a buffed wizards hook and Lunging spell touch.... AND if you really want to get into it big time, enables the following:

2nd Evangelist boon (Tsukiyo)
Collective Vision (Su) When using the vision of madness granted power from the Madness domain, you can target creatures within 30 feet of you instead of having to touch a single target. You can target a maximum number of creatures equal to 1 for every 4 Hit Dice you have (maximum 5).

Phenomonal....

David knott 242 wrote:

I would never ignore the Protection domain:

"Granted Powers: Your faith is your greatest source of protection, and you can use that faith to defend others. In addition, you receive a +1 resistance bonus on saving throws. This bonus increases by 1 for every 5 levels you possess.

Resistant Touch (Sp): As a standard action, you can touch an ally to grant him your resistance bonus for 1 minute. When you use this ability, you lose your resistance bonus granted by the Protection domain for 1 minute. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier."

Even if you never bother to use Resistant Touch, you have basically freed up your shoulders slot for other items.

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Torture Domain
Painful Smite: Prior to making a melee attack roll, you can choose to convert all damage from that strike into nonlethal damage, adding your Wisdom modifier to the damage. If you succeed in your attack, as a free action you can make an Intimidate check against your target to demoralize the target. You gain a bonus on your Intimidate check equal to the amount of nonlethal damage dealt by the painful smite. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

So you can do it multiple times per day and it mimics the effects of 2 feats chained together. Couple this with a Str based build and get your hit bonus up there and you've got a nice de-buffer on your hands.

blahpers wrote:

What, no repose domain?

Repose wrote:

Gentle Rest (Sp): Your touch can fill a creature with lethargy, causing a living creature to become staggered for 1 round as a melee touch attack. If you touch a staggered living creature, that creature falls asleep for 1 round instead. Undead creatures touched are staggered for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

doc roc wrote:

LIBERATION DOMAIN

Liberation (Su): You have the ability to ignore impediments to your mobility. For a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level, you can move normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement, as if you were affected by freedom of movement. This effect occurs automatically as soon as it applies. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.

Another well known great.... say goodbye to magic spells that affect movement, and yes as a GM I include Black Tentacles in this.

After all if you had immunity to magical fire based spells, you couldn't argue against being immune to Fireball by saying..."Well yes Fireball is a magical fire spell, but the fire itself isn't magical so it still harms you."

Interestingly I am not a fan of this one that gets commonly mentioned as being great:

DEMON SUBDOMAIN
Fury of the Abyss (Su): As a swift action, you can give yourself an enhancement bonus equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1) on melee attacks, melee damage rolls, and combat maneuver checks. This bonus lasts for 1 round. During this round, you take a –2 penalty to AC. You can use this ability for a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

This enhancement bonus does not stack with the enhancement bonus from weapons, and since +x weapons are fairly easy/cheap to come by, I really think its deceptively poor.

doc roc wrote:

GLORY DOMAIN
Touch of Glory (Sp): You can cause your hand to shimmer with divine radiance, allowing you to touch a creature as a standard action and give it a bonus equal to your cleric level on a single Charisma-based skill check or Charisma ability check. This ability lasts for 1 hour or until the creature touched elects to apply the bonus to a roll. You can use this ability to grant the bonus a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

A bit of a hidden gem this one.... great for out of combat situations but also there is Noble Scion of War which changes your Initiative modifier from DEX to CHA which this has enormous benefit towards.

Also very useful for anyone focussed on planar binding.

Wonderstell wrote:
Oh and it's probably a good idea to differentiate between 1st level domain powers that are actually good at first level, and those that scale really well. Repose (that blahpers mentioned) is great for Domain Strike builds at low-to-mid levels as a 1-level dip, but Madness only starts getting good around when you get your second domain power.
Melkiador wrote:
The effectiveness of a power over levels should be considered, but I think most of them scale pretty well, except for the ones that do damage. The damage dealing powers all scale super slow, so they quickly aren’t worth the standard action they use compared to using a spell
doc roc wrote:

I am normally very anti melee clerics but these 2 go well together, combined with Fates Favored trait, Divine Favour as a buff, Power Attack and a big 2H weapon.

DECTRUCTION DOMAIN
Destructive Smite (Su): You gain the destructive smite power: the supernatural ability to make a single melee attack with a morale bonus on damage rolls equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum 1). You must declare the destructive smite before making the attack. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier

GROWTH SUBDOMAIN
Enlarge (Su): As a swift action you can enlarge yourself for 1 round, as if you were the target of the enlarge person spell. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Wonderstell wrote:

FAMILY SUBDOMAIN
Binding Ties (Su): As a standard action, you can touch an ally and remove one condition affecting the ally by transferring it to yourself. This transfer lasts a number of rounds equal to your cleric level, but you can end it as a free action on your turn. At the end of this effect, the condition reverts to the original creature, unless it has ended or is removed by another effect. While this power is in use, the target is immune to the transferred condition. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

I'm like 30% sure this can be used to revive someone.

Dead is a condition. You touch your dead ally and remove the dead condition for a couple of rounds. While you lie dead someone else heals the ally so that death "is removed by another effect", and they stay alive when the duration ends.

MrCharisma wrote:

o I guess by RAW you can remove the "Dead" condition by becoming "Dead" yourself.

This would last a number of rounds equal to your cleric level, and you wouldn't be able to end this as a free action because you're dead (can't take free actions).

While the creature has the "dead" condition removed, it would still be at -XXhp, and would still be unconscious. Restoring it's HP would NOT remove the "dead" condition, so would NOT be sufficient to keep it alive once the "dead" condition reverts to the creature.

This means your party would have to think of another way to resurrect it while you're "dead" in order for it to remain "alive" once the effect wears off.

That all seems RAW, but almost certainly not RAI. I wouldn't bet on a GM allowing it.

Wonderstell wrote:

Why not? I can remove the "dying" condition from an ally, which means they're no longer dying. If they're healed above negative hit points before Binding Ties ends, then the "dying" condition would not revert to the original creature. Right?

If I remove the "dead" condition, then they're no longer dead. Which means they can now benefit from normal and magical healing, since that was a restriction of the dead condition. If they're healed above the death threshold before Binding ties ends, then it would work just as above.

doc roc wrote:

actually these 2 combined are an improvement since Ferocity removes the 'single attack' restriction of Destruction.

GROWTH SUBDOMAIN
Enlarge (Su): As a swift action you can enlarge yourself for 1 round, as if you were the target of the enlarge person spell. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

FEROCITY SUBDOMAIN
Ferocious Strike (Su): Whenever you make a melee attack, you can designate that attack as a ferocious strike. If the attack hits, it deals additional damage equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

MrCharisma wrote:

(concerning the Binding Ties Domain Power)Right, you can heal them to positive HP, but that doesn't inherently restore a dead person to life. It removes the cause of "dead", but doesn't actually remove "dead".

Imagine someone who was killed by a death effect. They're dead regardless of HP. You restore them with Family Ties, heal them up to full HP, then the effect ends and they're dead again.

The dead condition is the same regardless of the cause (negative-hp/0-CON/death-effect/etc), so in order to remove the condition you'd need a "remove death" ability (raise-dead/resurrection/breath-of-life/etc). If you have one then great, but otherwise raising your HP to positive doesn't remove death.

Here's an example to help illustrate the point:
BREATH OF LIFE wrote:

Unlike other spells that heal damage, breath of life can bring recently slain creatures back to life.

Since the only way to bring someone back at all with this spell is to quote the strictest RAW while paying no mind to RAI, we would have to apply the same rules and apply the strictest RAW to the effect you get out of it. So without finding something ghat specifically removes the "dead" condition they revert to dead once it's over.

The easiest way to deal with this is just to use this to extend the "window of opportunity" for Breath of Life, eg.
- Your party member died 4 rounds ago, so you can't use Breath of Life on them.
- You use Family Ties on them, bringing them to life for X-rounds while you are dead for the duration. Your party has them lie on top of your temporarily lifeless corpse and wait to die again.
- You awake from your not-so-eternal-slumber just as your comrade dies, and use Breath of Life on your dead-again aly, who -having died within 1 round - is now a valid target for the spell.

Wonderstell wrote:

@MrCharisma

I think I get what you're saying. While losing hit points can lead to death, gaining hit points doesn't cure death.

Your and Dairfaron's Breath of Life trick seems to be the most straightforward option. But I might have another idea.

Quote wrote:

At the end of this effect, the condition reverts to the original creature, unless it has ended or is removed by another effect.

So a Cleric uses Binding Ties on a paralyzed ally. Someone else casts Remove Paralysis on the Cleric. If the Cleric chooses to end the effect then their Ally wouldn't suffer from the paralyzed condition, if I understand this sentence correctly.

That is, if you cure the condition from the Cleric it doesn't revert to the original creature.

If so, then you should be able to use two clerics to have one of them revive an ally, and the other to make the first cleric immune to the dead condition, effectively 'curing' the dead ally of it.

doc roc wrote:

I think if I had to pick 3 1st level powers that had the most overall potential it would be:

Love, Light, Growth

Very potent for 1st level powers....

Madness is great but only really kicks in properly at 4-6th level.


So, we seem to be sticking to cleric domains here, but there are also a lot of druid domains. And the inquisitor has its own very domain-ish inquisitions, which I think clerics can technically take as a domain, albeit without bonus spells.

Edit:

Quote:
Inquisitions are intended for inquisitors, not for other classes that give access to domains. While a cleric or other domain-using class can select an inquisition in place of a domain (if appropriate to the character's deity), inquisitions do not grant domain spell slots or domain spells, and therefore are much weaker choices for those classes. These other classes use the appropriate class level as their inquisitor level for the purpose of inquisition granted powers (clerics use their cleric level as their inquisitor level, and so on).

If you really only want the domain spells from one domain, then an inquisition could make a strong second domain choice. And mostly unrelated to this discussion, but the ecclesitheurge can get the best of both worlds with its mix and matching. .


Yeah there really are some nice druid domains. For example the Plains domain that gives you pounce a few times per day is preat for martially oriented druids. As for Inquisitions: What are your favourites?

As for Cleric domains I like the Restoration subdomain replacement power:

Restorative Touch (Su): You can touch a creature, letting the healing power of your deity flow through you to relieve the creature of a minor condition. Your touch can remove the dazed, fatigued, shaken, sickened, or staggered condition. You choose which condition is removed. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

It is really handy if people get hit by minor save or suck spells.

Shadow Lodge

I think, out of all of those, Madness still reigns supreme. Run up to the enemy, give them a bonus to skill checks, aaaannnd boom, great no-save debuff that lasts a decent amount of time in-combat.


Yeah, Madness is extremely powerful. And while RAW it does work no save, if I were a GM I would probably allow enemies a save aginst the effect.


The exploration subdomain can be pretty great utility, especially in a dungeon crawl or infiltration scenario.

Quote:
Door Sight (Su): You can lay your hand upon any surface and see what is on the other side, as if using clairvoyance. Using this power takes 1 minute, during which time you must be touching the surface you want to see through. You can keep looking for as long as 10 minutes with each use of this power, but must touch the surface and take no other action the entire time. The surface cannot be thicker than 6 inches plus 1 inch per cleric level you possess. You can use this power a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.


Dairfaron wrote:
Yeah, Madness is extremely powerful. And while RAW it does work no save, if I were a GM I would probably allow enemies a save aginst the effect.

It is affected by SR and requires an attack roll, so I guess that's why it doesn't have any save. Unless you've invested in countering SR it should quickly become a problem. Prayer Beads and the Piercing Metamagic wouldn't work, for example.


Druid Domains

Cave Domain
Cavesight (Sp): You can grant darkvision 60 feet to a willing creature you touch. This effect lasts 1 minute, or 1 hour if used on yourself. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.


As far as I can see a cleric can take druid domains too... although in fairness there aren't that that many that I'd consider worthy.


Quote:
If so, then you should be able to use two clerics to have one of them revive an ally, and the other to make the first cleric immune to the dead condition, effectively 'curing' the dead ally of it.

Expanding on this line of thought.

Binding Ties (Su):
As a standard action, you can touch an ally and remove one condition affecting the ally by transferring it to yourself. This transfer lasts a number of rounds equal to your cleric level, but you can end it as a free action on your turn. At the end of this effect, the condition reverts to the original creature, unless it has ended or is removed by another effect. While this power is in use, the target is immune to the transferred condition. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

some serious cheese:
Let's say we have a cleric of Erastil with the Feather and Family subdomains. The animal companion has the Auspice companion archetype so that it has a once per day use of Binding Ties.

Round 1:
1. The cleric uses Binding Ties on a dead ally.
2. The companion uses Binding Ties on the (now) dead cleric.

Round 2:
3. The cleric uses Binding Ties on their (now) dead companion. The cleric does not die (again) since they are immune to the dead condition thanks to the companion.
4. All three of them are alive, and immune to the dead condition. Immunity is different from suppression in that temporary immunity cures you from the affliction. So the previously dead ally is now completely cured from the dead condition.

Round 3:
4. The cleric heals the ally (if their HP is negative) either with spells or preferably by using a Specialized Healer's Satchel.
5. The cleric ends the effect on the ally as a free action. The ally won't die from having negative HP since they are now healed. They also won't die from the dead condition reverting back to the ally since it was "removed by another effect".

***

If the one using the Specialized Healer's Satchel is another creature than the cleric, then it's possible to heal and revive a creature in just two rounds. Every ally revived after round 2 would only need one additional round. So if they're all dead at the same time, and you've gathered the corpses, you could rather early revive multiple allies in a day.

Maximum revives is equal to [Wis+2] or [HD-1], whichever is lowest. If you have an ally with the Beliver's Boon feat instead of a companion you could revive an ally as soon as level 2.

***


Interesting, I'll have to think about that one.


Even if removing the dead condition technically works, it's clearly not the intention. And I wouldn't expect any GM to let that fly. So, haha, but maybe we should move on.


How about the undeath subdomain ability Death's kiss?

Death’s Kiss (Su): You can cause a creature to take on some of the traits of the undead with a melee touch attack. Touched creatures are treated as undead for the purposes of effects that heal or cause damage based on positive and negative energy. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum 1). It does not apply to the Turn Undead or Command Undead feats. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

To start with this ability allowed my necromancer to be the party's healer, though, unless I memorized cure spells I was limited to out of combat healing. The other fun part is that this ability does not state that the target needs to be willing nor that they get a save. So, if the enemy has been healing themselves or you suspect this is something that they will do you can tap them with this ability and they'll end up hurting themselves trying to heal.

If you want to be really proactive you could combine it with the spell compassionate ally.

This could result in the enemy being hesitant to heal themselves after it's worn off as they likely don't have any way to tell that it has.


Melkiador wrote:
Even if removing the dead condition technically works, it's clearly not the intention. And I wouldn't expect any GM to let that fly. So, haha, but maybe we should move on.

It's a thread in the General Discussion forum about domain powers, and we're discussing a domain power. It's clearly the right place to have this discussion.

If the idea behind the unintended resurrections is sound, then that opens up more uses for this domain power that you'd normally not think about. Instead of using it to temporarily free an ally from a condition, you can actually cure the condition if you have at least two characters with the domain power.
My evaluation of this domain power has sharply risen from this discussion, and it's thanks to it that I now realize just how good it is.

In addition to saving an ally from a debilitating condition in combat, it's able to cure more obscure conditions such as "Energy Drained" and "Petrified" without relying on spells. You can also provide fatigue immunity to a raging ally so that they can rage-cycle, or maybe allow a grappling ally to make AoOs and move.

====

Is there any way to give out uses of a domain power to allies? Like how a Spiked Focus Ward Channel Foci can hand out out uses of Channel Energy.


Wonderstell wrote:

Round 1:

1. The cleric uses Binding Ties on a dead ally.
2. The companion uses Binding Ties on the (now) dead cleric.

Round 2:
3. The cleric uses Binding Ties on their (now) dead companion. The cleric does not die (again) since they are immune to the dead condition thanks to the companion.

CRB Glossary wrote:
In case it matters, a dead character, no matter how he died, has hit points equal to or less than his negative Constitution score.
Quote:
Dying: A dying creature is unconscious and near death. Creatures that have negative hit points and have not stabilized are dying. A dying creature can take no actions.

So, in round 2 the cleric can't take an action, because he also has the dying condition, and unless he stabilizes, he'll just die again.

Really, even if you removed the dying or dead condition from someone they would just immediately die again, because of the hit points.

Quote:
If a dying creature has an amount of negative hit points equal to its Constitution score, it dies.

You could maybe try some shenanigans with a readied action to heal as soon as the dead condition gets removed. Otherwise, you'd just end up with 2 dead characters.


Eh, there are ways around the "can't act while dying" thing.

As for immediately dying again, I think the idea was that while under the effect of binding ties, the targeted creature is immune to the removed condition, so they wouldn't die again until binding ties wore off--in fact, they'd be immortal, unable to be rendered "dead" by anything under the sun and moon until binding ties wore off.

Now, once binding ties wears off, if you're still at sufficiently negative hit points, you're gonna die again.

Edits: Anyhoo, this isn't the first time I've seen design create an ability or effect that refers to "conditions" without giving much thought as to what that entails, and no, I'm not handing out practically free true resurrections this way. Sorry, folks at my table! X D


Binding Ties really shines when you combine it with Breath of Life, or neck slots of similar effect.


Hmm... can't say I considered that the dead condition would lower your HP. I think smelling salts is the easiest way to save this.

revised cheese, premium cheese:
Round 1:
1. The cleric uses Binding Ties on a dead ally. previously dead ally at negative HP
2. The companion uses Binding Ties on the (now) dead cleric. cleric alive but at negative HP

Round 2:
3. Cleric is conscious thanks to the smelling salts, and uses Binding Ties on their (now) dead companion. The cleric takes damage and falls unconscious, but is immune to the dead condition so it doesn't matter how much damage they take. companion alive but at negative HP
4. All three of them are alive, and immune to the dead condition.

Round 3:
4. Cleric is conscious, again, thanks to smelling salts. They use the Specialized Healer's Satchel on the ally and falls unconscious. ally at 0 HP

Round 4:
5. Repeat on the companion. companion at 0 HP

Round 5:
6. Repeat on self. cleric at 0 HP, might take 1 dmg but smelling salts keeps them up

***

End result:
One revived ally and two characters who all are at 0 HP. Probably a good idea to start channeling.
You'd need to be at least level 5 to not run out of time, or level 2 if you have two allies who pass around the satchel in round 1 & 2 to heal everyone. In addition to that one ally with Believer's Boon.

***

Melkiador wrote:
Really, even if you removed the dying or dead condition from someone they would just immediately die again, because of the hit points.

What blahpers said. Binding Ties gives immunity for its duration.

And yes, anyone who actually argues for 'dead' to work is bound to be disappointed. Curing other conditions is still valuable, though.


Depends on if you are immune to the condition in general or just that particular application of the condition.

Death has another potentially important effect.

Quote:
The character's soul leaves his body.

Removing the condition wouldn’t return your soul. That thing left. But then, there’s very few things in the game that actually require a soul.


So for the sake reason that you had to do something more serious than just cure your previously dead ally to remove the "Dead" condition (doesn't specifically say it works), I don't think your cleric would end up at negative HP (doesn't specifically say you took HP damage). When you're brought back you'd presumably be at the same HP you were when you used this ability on your ally.

Does that scan for anyone else?

(Unless there is text somewhere that implies you alsays come back at negative HP?)


Gaining the dead condition, no matter how you got it, lowers your hp to negative of your con score.

Quote:
In case it matters, a dead character, no matter how he died, has hit points equal to or less than his negative Constitution score.

It’s one of the few instances of future proofing in the CRB.


If removing the dead condition just seems overpowered, consider 'prone' or 'grappled' for weirdness. What does it mean to be immune to being prone or grappled, and can you set it up just before a fight?


The prone one does seem kind of hilarious. Shooting up like daisies. You could have all kinds of fun using that one on a dead creature.

Grappled and pinned are just really confusing. Would the cleric continue to be grappled even if the grappler stops grappling?


Or for further weirdness, suppose there's an improved familiar in the group who doesn't really use their invisibility much. Is it OK to use binding ties to take the invisible condition from them?


Melkiador wrote:
Grappled and pinned are just really confusing. Would the cleric continue to be grappled even if the grappler stops grappling?

I think that a grappler who stops grappling would mean the condition ends and the cleric loses the grappled condition. In the case of grappling this happens quickly since the grappler would fail the maneuver check at the start of their next round.

avr wrote:
Or for further weirdness, suppose there's an improved familiar in the group who doesn't really use their invisibility much. Is it OK to use binding ties to take the invisible condition from them?

For further, further weirdness, suppose it's specifically an Imp that has Invisibility at will. Does the invisible condition end when the Imp attacks, the Cleric, or either of them?

As I understand it the condition would only end if the Imp attacks, which seems like a way to get Greater Invisibility.


doc roc wrote:

DEMON SUBDOMAIN

Fury of the Abyss (Su): As a swift action, you can give yourself an enhancement bonus equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1) on melee attacks, melee damage rolls, and combat maneuver checks. This bonus lasts for 1 round. During this round, you take a –2 penalty to AC. You can use this ability for a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

This enhancement bonus does not stack with the enhancement bonus from weapons, and since +x weapons are fairly easy/cheap to come by, I really think its deceptively poor.

I disagree. This scales +1 per 2 levels. While magic weapons are easy to come by, the gives a +2 at 4th level, but you don't come across a +2 weapon till several levels later. Also, is this limited to +5 like a normal weapon? Not in the description. As a GM, I woould let a 20th level cleric get a +10 enhancement from this. If you do limit it to +5, then you get +5 at 10th level, where a +2 or +3 weapon might be seen.

/cevah


Hmmm... that' a good point Cevah. I think the problem with that power is that it doesn't get good until later.

At level 1 it's nice, but not amazing.

At level 2 you probably bave a Masterwork weapon, so it's crap.

At level 4-6 it's a small boost (basically it's giving you +1 over your weapons).

Level 8 is where it's probably giving you +2 over your weapons and where it starts to be good. For an ability you get at 1st level you have to wait a while for it to really be useful.

Alternately if you're more of a caster and a backup combatant (eg. Focusing on casting but not totally ignoring combat prowess) this could be used to avoid buying a magic weapon entirely, which saves you a ton of money in the long run.


Quote:
Fury of the Abyss (Su): As a swift action, you can give yourself an enhancement bonus equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1) on melee attacks, melee damage rolls, and combat maneuver checks. This bonus lasts for 1 round. During this round, you take a –2 penalty to AC. You can use this ability for a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

That's not a bonus on the weapon. I think it may actually stack with the weapon's bonus, but it would take some digging to confirm that. There's no reason to think it wouldn't scale past +5 for the same reason, it's not a bonus to the weapon, nor is a limit specified in the description.

Quote:
A magic weapon is enhanced to strike more truly and deliver more damage. Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5. They apply these bonuses to both attack and damage rolls when used in combat.

So, the weapon applies its bonus. This may stack with the bonus that is being applied to the character.

But assuming they indeed do not stack, then you would just favor weapons with special abilities instead of a flat bonus.


Melkiador wrote:
Quote:
Fury of the Abyss (Su): As a swift action, you can give yourself an enhancement bonus equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1) on melee attacks, melee damage rolls, and combat maneuver checks. This bonus lasts for 1 round. During this round, you take a –2 penalty to AC. You can use this ability for a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
That's not a bonus on the weapon. I think it may actually stack with the weapon's bonus, but it would take some digging to confirm that. There's no reason to think it wouldn't scale past +5 for the same reason, it's not a bonus to the weapon, nor is a limit specified in the description.

(Emphasis changed for ... emphasis)

No the enhancement bonus is to attack rolls and damage rolls, the word itself just means you can't give this bonus to your friends.

The reason a Belt of Strength stacks with a weapon's enhancement bonus is because they're buffing different things: The belt buffs your Strength score, which indirectly buffs your attack and damage rolls. The weapon buffs your attack and damage rolls directly.

And yes your bonus should be able to go up to 10, or indefinitely if you can somehow get more than 20 levels of Cleric.


I wonder if you could build a natural attack build with Fury of the Abyss. Not needing an amulet of mighty fists could be pretty nice.

Would the attacks bypass DR? The bonus isn't on the weapon, but the amulet of mighty fists seems to have a similar issue. Do those overcome DR?

Edit: So there's an FAQ that the amulet bypasses DR, but the question wasn't answered more generally, so it's unclear if similar abilities also would.


The Law Domain can be very powerful. Touch of Law, the creature you Touch always rolls an 11 on every roll of the d20. Depending on the circumstances, that can be devastating.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
The Law Domain can be very powerful. Touch of Law, the creature you Touch always rolls an 11 on every roll of the d20. Depending on the circumstances, that can be devastating.

True-ish. It goes very nicely with UMD, potentially with saving throws for shaking off poison and the like, spell penetration, disarming traps and so on. The real problems are that a) it's a standard action, b) it's a touch, c) it doesn't work on the unwilling and d) it lasts only one round. This limits its use a lot, largely to outside combat, and in those cases one can often Take 10.


But 11 is higher than 10. Our dials go to 11. Its one higher.


Cavall wrote:
But 11 is higher than 10. Our dials go to 11. Its one higher.

Linkified that for you.

/cevah


Thanks buddy!

Liberty's Edge

Chaos Domain
Touch of Chaos (Sp): You can imbue a target with chaos as a melee touch attack. For the next round, anytime the target rolls a d20, he must roll twice and take the less favorable result. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

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