I posted a few days ago about rerolling a character for Skull and Shackles. I've just been really frustrated with my character not seeming to be useful to the party. I posted some of this before, but I will repost so people who didn't see my other post might know what I am talking about.
I am playing a sea singer bard, but the character is not working like I thought. We are up to level 6 so I've been playing her for a while, but the more I play, the less useful my charter seems. I think she's not an asset to the party at all.
Here are the issues I seem to have: I am too specialized. I barely get to use any of my sea singer skills. The only one I've ever had the chance to use was sea shanty at the beginning of the campaign since then, there has not been any opportunity to use them where it would help anything. The bard abilities I gave up for Sea Singer would have been useful quite a few times.
Another issue, the other players are very experienced and very good at building strong characters where I am not. I suspect they may min/max which is fine, they seem to like it. We have creatures coming at us that hit with a roll of 30 and such, and do 20+ points of damage when they hit. I have to stay away from combat. My spells fizzle, a lot, as saves are made. I need to be able to be useful. I don't have to be fighting, but I need to contribute something. Not just sitting back, inspiring courage and watching arrows bounce off things (if I even hit).
The thing that really disappointed me was the last playing session where the party took two NPCs along so they could have some healing, buffing, and magic (those should be my niche).
The only niche I fill is party face because all of them used charisma as a dump stat. I've used that for some roll playing stuff, but I don't know if any of that is going anywhere (I am trying to build a secret society of bards... an information sharing network).
We have a brawler, monk, inquisitor, and alchemist in the party. We used to have three melee characters when we started, so I went ranged.
Here is my bard:
Race: human
level:6 sea singer bard
Str: 14
Dex: 16
Con: 11
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Cha: 18
Feats: Point blank shot, Precise shot, rapid shot
Spells:
0 Dancing lights, detect magic, mage hand, mending, prestidigitation, read magic
1 Cure light wounds, ear piecing scream, grease, vanish
2 alter self, heroism, pyrotechnics, silence
Is there anything I can do going forward to make her stronger?
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Consider taking Battlefield Control style actions to be more effective in combat. Your team totally lacks any Battlefield Control. Bards aren't great at this, but can be competent. Anything you can do help you team with Battlefield Control will be a big contribution!
Make good use of that Grease spell, it can help a lot. Consider learning to Summon Monster spells.
Sad to say it, but Archery Bard is generally a not-very-effective approach. Action efficiency is awful, because your early turns are taken up with Bard Song and Spell Casting. You'll rarely be able to get off an arrow until round 3, by which time a fight is nearly over.
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I'm going to slightly disagree with Magda (although her advice is good in a general sense).
Next level you'l be able to start your bardic performance as a move action, so you can do this:
Round 1: Inspire Courage (move) + Haste (standard)
Round 2: Shoot-shoot-shoot.
Although spells and performance cannot be combined with attacks, archery does have the advantage that any round you're not performing/casting you can full attack anyone on the board. Essentially the more attacks you do the more benefit you're getting from Inspire Courage. My advice would also be to not bother with small spells, just cast your one big buff spell at the beginning of combat and then go to town.
For your feat next level take Deadly Aim. Assuming a non-magical composite longbow this should bring your damage up to 1d8+8 per shot (and hopefull 2-3 hits per round) which is perfectly acceptable damage.
Regarding spells known, I agree with GeneticDrift's list, but in a more general sense I would prioritise swift/immediate action spells and long duration buffs that you can cast before combat begins - this way you can keep shooting when the action starts (also spells like Glitterdust are a lifesaver when needed, and Haste is worth the standard action).
In Short: Next level Learn Haste and take Deadly aim as your feat. Spend 1 round buffing then shoot all the baddies.
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Don't expect to be great at healing. Combat healing is never good, and wands of CLW or Infernal Healing are too cheap to beat.
Your main role should be buffing. Inspire Courage is amazing and there are several ways to either increase the bonus it gives or add extra bonuses, to thoroughly buff your party. As soon as you can sing as a Move action, your first turn should almost always be Inspire Courage + Haste.
Dervish Sikke
Master Performer
Grand Master Performer
Banner of the Ancient Kings
Three Reasons to Live
Flagbearer
At level 7, you could easily be giving an almost constant +5 or +6 to attack and damage to the whole party, including yourself. While I agree with whoever said archery is not a great plan for a bard, If you just pick up Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Deadly Aim, its probably fine. So at 7 that leaves you with one feat slot left for Master Performer.
With a composite long bow, and the above mentioned things, your round 2 could be 3 solid attacks. Also you should DEFINITELY swap your DEX and your CHA.
Roughly +14/+14/+14 for 1d8+17 per arrow, give or take. Perfectly solid numbers for 7th level, especially given the amount you're also buffing the team.
Edit: Forgot about Heroism, which you should very often have up on yourself. So +16/+16/+16.
Thanks for the tips so far. It almost sounds like I am just at a "bad level" for my character at the same time I am in a less than idea combat situation for her. So maybe there is some hope for saving her? That would be good. I made an elaborate backstory and motivations for my character that the GM (I think) is incorporating into the game. I hate to undo all that work he (and I) did. Plus I hate giving up.
I don't think I was considering Deadly Aim (I was thinking Far Shot to I could better fire on closing ships) but I will definitely consider it. I rarely get to shoot at ships anyway (there is a whole lot less naval combat in this game than I though, which is part of the problem. I built a character for the water, not dungeon crawls/island exploration which seem to make up the bulk of our adventures).
I had actually planned on haste as my first 3rd level spell. Last game I played we had a mage that cast that on us a lot. Loved it. I can unlearn spells every few levels if something on my list is less than stellar. I use grease a lot as well as vanish (mainly on the NPC healer). Pyrotechnics might seem odd, but it is how we take other ships (get close, I shoot a lit arrow, our crew hides their eyes, Boom). But we rarely get to take ships and I think the GM is going to start countering that somehow because I can see it annoys him when I blind most of the other crew before the battle starts.
I have a wand of summon monster 1. I need to figure out how to better use it. I thought about glitter dust, but only because I've read it is so good. But I don't know that we've ever fought anything it would really help with. I am not even sure how you use it. How can you toss it at an invisible creature if you can't see where it is to aim the spell?
This game involves a lot more dungeon crawling than I expected and that's where I seem weak and ineffective.
By the way, trust me, our combats last much longer than 3 rounds. I would say 6 rounds on average (judging by the hash marks I use to keep track of bard song). We've also lost a lot of the characters on the way. There seem to be a lot of deaths (both NPC crew and PCs). I am surprised my character hasn't died yet, as I am sure you can tell by my questions, I am not really the most experienced or rules familiar player.
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Level 7 is where it's at. You can start performing as a move action, you get access to Haste, Good Hope, and Dispel Magic, and you get another feat to boost either Inspire Courage [Extra Performance and then Master Performer], archery [Deadly Aim], spells, or knowledges. Get yourself a lesser rod of extend for 3000, and you can pre-cast the Good Hope and Haste, 1 or 2 times each, per day.
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I hate to be such a nay-sayer, but there are a few things I feel I should point out:
(Note: anything I don't point out is something I agree with, there's good advice here)
Grand Master Performer
These two feats have a faction requirement, so check with your GM before taking them.
Flagbearer
This item and feat require a hand, so they would be incompatible with an archer (although they end up as one item, and I believe it can be attached to a longspear and the longspear used as usual without diminishing their powers)
Three Reasons to Live
This item is campaign specific, and may in fact be included in your campaign (Plunder and Peril is an alternative to book 2 of Skulls and Shackles, so you may be playing it without realising it). Whether it's included in your game or not it probably isn't something you can buy.
Roughly +14/+14/+14 for 1d8+17 per arrow, give or take. Perfectly solid numbers for 7th level, especially given the amount you're also buffing the team.
Edit: Forgot about Heroism, which you should very often have up on yourself. So +16/+16/+16.
Those numbers aren't "perfectly solid for a 7th level character", they're outrageously high. The DPR for that attack routine (with +16 to hit) is ~60, while a primary damage dealer should be aiming at ~30-40, and a secondary damage dealer can afford to be dealing ~15-20. This isn't to say you can't aim for 60DPR, but don't think that's the standard you have to aim for.
If all you do is take Deadly Aim and Haste next level you'll end up with an attack routine that looks like this:
+9/+9/+9 1d8+10 (~24DPR)
Add Heroism and it becomes:
+11/+11/+11 1d8+10 (~28DPR)
When you hit level 8 you'll get an extra attack from having a high enough BAB and you'll get a ~25% damage boost.
Also as people have said, giving your allies +2 to hit means that approximately 1 in 10 attacks will be a hit instead of a miss, which is a significant boost. If they're hitting a lot already then every hit getting +2 damage is also a significant boost. When you add Haste you add more attzcks which multiplies the effectiveness of Inspire Courage. You're probably already doing more than you think.
EDIT: Woops, messed up my quotes, it should be fixed now.
Thanks again. I actually have the Three Reasons To Live. I've only had all three parts for the last playing session. I forgot I had it. I really need to make and highlight a note on my character sheet. We've only had a few battles since I got it though, so I haven't wasted it too long.
I can't take Master Performer or Grand Master Performer. I already have a really elaborate backstory and none of it includes going to a bardic college. It wouldn't fit logically and I know, because of that, the GM would not approve. I would have had to indicate I went to that college early on. I have the background "Barroom Talespinner" which is almost the opposite of going to a college (self taught).
I am going to add a level to my character in Herolab and add Deadly aim and haste to just "see" what she looks like after that. Maybe I will bring her up to level 8 as well, adding some of the suggestions.
Thanks for your help!
Also take a look at Masterpieces that can replace spells known
Arrowsong's lament - lets you prepare any bard spell, or a lower level wizard spell in the slot you took it. You can take it multiple times (once for each level of bard magic. Herolab doesn't let you do this function though) and you can activate them all in a single one hour session.
Pagent of the Peacock - Lets you use bluff in place of any int based skill check.
My Bard in War for the Crown is getting a lot of use out of the Harmonic Spell feat
Also finding Arrowsong's Lament very useful, made a point of buying a premade spellbook to use with it (Defensive Primer from Ultimate Magic). Magic Missile is always a handy thing to have.
Also picked up Blazing Rondo which has been very useful and Dumbshow of Garoc (which I've only gotten to use once)
One Spell I have found very handy is Biting Words. It is a good one to use with Extended Spell metamagic, effectively doubling your "ammo"
I enjoy telling the DM "I attack with sarcasm for 8 points of damage"
You'll find also once you get your sing going that your swift actions as a Bardcher are pretty free.
Take arcane strike. It's like deadly aim but no penalty in hitting just costs a swift.
Personally I'd think that's better but theres no reason to choose as they stack. And get that tuned bowstring!!!
So I still had the DPR calculation for the level 7 archer up on my phone calculator ...
(The following both assume a +1 bow)
With Inspire Courage, Haste, Heroism and Deadly Aim: 33.2475 DPR
With Inspire Courage, Haste, Heroism and Arcane Strike: 33.4125 DPR
So it looks like Arcane Strike wins by 0.165 DPR (I'm Shocked! Shocked I tellz ya!)
But yeah - why not both?
I can't thank you all enough. I decided to keep my bard and incorporate some of your suggestions.
By the way, that biting words spell looks like fun (I could even role play that). I don't see it on my spell list in Pathfinder, but I am going to ask my GM about it. And I did tell him I am going to pursue getting a bowstring.
I can't thank you all enough. I decided to keep my bard and incorporate some of your suggestions.
By the way, that biting words spell looks like fun (I could even role play that). I don't see it on my spell list in Pathfinder, but I am going to ask my GM about it. And I did tell him I am going to pursue getting a bowstring.
It's an official Paizo spell just not from one of the hardcovers, It's in one of the thin books they put out for players, the Magic Tactics Toolbox.
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BITING WORDS
It occurs to me that since Biting Words is a spell with "you" as the target, you can cast it on your familiar and let them attack with it while you use your bow or cast other spells.
BITING WORDSIt occurs to me that since Biting Words is a spell with "you" as the target, you can cast it on your familiar and let them attack with it while you use your bow or cast other spells.
The shared language part might be an issue, but if the familiar was a Parrot it might work.
"Bwark, you're a scurvy dog, Bwark!" - 7 damage
I do have a parrot as a familiar. But he is a little more foul mouthed and salty than just calling someone a scurvy dog.
In Herolab, it says I can't add any more feats, "no more feats can be added".
Our DM required that we take a story feat and I think it's counting that. But I checked and he intended it as a free feat to add some character, not to replace a feat. So I get to add a feat. Yeah!
As you can probably tell, I love playing these kinds of games but am horrible at keeping track of the rules. I am using Herolab as a crutch to help me. But I missed that. I make up for my lack of remembering the rules by being very innovative in the game. I often throw the GM for a loop by doing things he didn't expect. In our last campaign, I literally won "fights" by diplomacy (I am the only one in my group who seems to care about charisma). And the end of that campaign, I made peace by allowing myself to be permanently imprisoned in another realm. Again, something he wasn't expecting, but it worked thematically.
As for pyrotechnics. I always have a fire source. I light an arrow and launch it. Then I can cast the spell on the lit arrow. I aim for the sails (big, easy target that can burn some more). But like I said, I took that with the idea of taking other ships (blinding the crew to give us the upper hand) which is something we've only done twice now. We run away a lot because our ship isn't strong so the idea was get money (dungeon crawls), then build up the ship, then we can pirate. I think.
And someone did try to burn our ship once already. But none of our main characters were there, we played the NPCs. But it would have been useful to put out the fire with a smoke cloud.
If it's something your DM gave for free, You can use the Adjustments in Hero Lab to mark a feat as a Bonus, so that it doesn't take up one of your slots.
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Check out the following:
1: Delusional Pride stroke their ego to make their combat worse
1: Hideous Laughter save or take out an enemy a while
2: Blistering Invective 30' radius damage enemies and maybe they catch fire
2: Gallant Inspiration immediate action add 2d4 to an attack roll to make a miss into a hit.
2: Pugwampi's Grace force an enemy to save or take the worst of two fpr all d20 rolls for a while.
2: Snapdragon Fireworks small area damage, but can use it as a move for 1r/l leaving your standard for something else.
2: Sound Burst damage and maybe stun 10' radius spread.
2: Summon Swarm swarms are hard to deal with, but it needs concentration.
2: Unadulterated Loathing if the enemy approaches to close to the object (i.e.you), it becomes sickened, a major debuf.
3: Slow useful to reduce the enemies ability to hurt you. [Haste is much better.]
Note that the wand of Summon Monster I will only last 1 round, and still takes a full round to cast. Probably best used to soak up AoOs from enemies.
/cevah
