Hello,
So Telekinetic Maneuvers says that you can perform combat maneuvers as per the spell Telekinesis, which says you can perform bull rush, disarm, grapple (including pin), and trip, which is fine, but why wouldnt you be able to perform other maneuvers, specifically the drag maneuver? Surely if bull rush is available, it has some merit to include drag too? They're basically the same except they move the target in the opposite direction (towards you instead of away from you).
According to another topic I found, the spell Telekinesis was written before Grab existed. That topic also mentions that a new spell called Telekinetic Maneuver does include Grab and other maneuvers, but that's a completely different spell and has nothing to do with Telekinetic Maneuvers (the Aether Kineticist Utility talent).
My question is therefore almost the same as in that topic: is there an errata, a FAQ, or any other source that says you can use other maneuvers with Telekinesis (and Telekinetic Maneuvers)? If not, would you say that this is due to it not being important enough to fix, and not due to it being extremely important to keep these other maneuvers disallowed? As in, a reasonable group with a reasonable DM might say that Grab (and possibly others) are acceptable to use with Telekinetic Maneuvers, and not break the game? :) Since Telekinetic Maneuver (the spell) exists, this surely isnt a new concept? Or are they somehow clearly distinct, in some way that I'm not seeing?
Telekinesis is mostly unchanged from 3.5, which Pathfinder was based on. The drag combat maneuver is from a later Pathfinder book so wasn’t included.
The important question is... where does it say what direction your telikinetic attack comes from?
In fact, telikinesis seems to imply the force can be from wherever within range, and travel in any direction within range, in its description of the violent thrust usage. So the force can come from the left, the right, in front, behind, under, over, et al.
If you assume it can be from any direction, then you can push them from behind (like drag) or the side (like reposition)... so bull rush alone covers them.
Thanks for the replies.
First I must mention, I obviously meant to say Drag instead of Grab in all instances of my first post, I dont know what I said that :( I cant seem to edit it now, sorry for any confusion :(
I dont know what direction does the attack from, cause neither the spell nor the kinetic talent mention anything about it. It seems like it could come from any direction, that's an interesting way of looking at it, that I havent thought of before. Seems reasonable enough to me, it makes sense that telekinetic force could come from anywhere.
Although someone could make a counterpoint that since Bull Rush specifically states that you "push an opponent straight back", and since Telekinesis/Telekinetic Maneuvers doesnt change or add to it, then that's all you could do with it - push them straight back (the intention in the Bull Rush text is clearly that you're pushing them away from yourself). They could also argue that since the Telekinetic Maneuvers talent doesnt copy the entire Telekinesis spell (but just the combat maneuver part), that it doesnt matter what could be assumed based on other parts of the Telekinesis spell.
That's why I was looking for any sources that would officially clear this up, but it doesnt seem there are any (yet). In any case, thanks for the insight, I agree that, logically, Bull Rush should cover pushing from any direction when done telekinetically.
Since it’s kineticist, there’s a small chance Mark Seifter might chime in. But this is a weird case, since while he did design the kineticist, he didn’t design the spell the ability is based on.
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