Any way to make a weapon count as another weapon?

Rules Questions

Is there any way to have a weapon count as another weapon for the purposes of feats, class features, etc.? Im trying to get a knifemaster rogue to weild a different weapon than listed, and I'd rather do it in the rules than DM fiat the problem away. Even if I could expand it to a weapon group would be usefull. Any help appreciated.

Theres things like the Martial Versatility feat that can expand a selected weapon feat to work on the whole group instead. And there is the Versatile Design weapon modifications that can make a weapon count as a different weapon group but needs higher proficiencies than normal.

I only know of substitutions for weapons completely involving Ascetic Style with unarmed or Spear Dancing Style and quarterstaves, I haven't come across anything that would really work with the pre-determined list on the Knife-master rogue.

Liberty's Edge

Ed Girallon Poe wrote:
Is there any way to have a weapon count as another weapon for the purposes of feats, class features, etc.?

There are a few. For example, the Spear Dancing Spiral feat allows you to treat any spear or polearm as a quarterstaff for purposes of all other feats and class features. The Sun Blade is a bastard sword that can be wielded as a short sword due to magic. Et cetera.

However, for Knife Master you would specifically need to simulate one of a handful of dagger like weapons. That limits the number of options.

Theoretically, you could wield a large dagger as a one-handed weapon or a huge dagger as a two-handed weapon, but a GM that interprets rules based on logic/intent might say that doing so would make them unsuitable for use with Sneak Stab.

It would help to understand what you are really trying to achieve.

For example, if you just want higher base weapon damage then there is a Fighter Advanced Weapon Training option that allows any weapon to do damage as per the Warpriest sacred weapon class feature.

Alternatively, Catfolk Rogues get a similar option to do d8 sneak attack dice with their claws and the Vicious Claws rogue talent.

Sniper Goggles (or Greater Sniper Goggles) can add +2 damage per sneak attack die on ranged sneak attacks with any weapon. Et cetera.

Sun blade bastard sword counts as a short sword. Kind of expensive though, but you can take weapon focus short sword and work towards switching later

CBDunkerson wrote:
It would help to understand what you are really trying to achieve.

I'd like to use the knifemaster as a starting point for a red mantis assassin, so I was looking to get the saw-toothed saber on to the list. Some of the knives on the list are in light blades weapon group; I was hoping there'd be some way of using that to expand my options legally.

Liberty's Edge

Well, Sneak Stab says that it works with "daggers and similar weapons", so some GMs might allow flexibility beyond the listed weapons (e.g. why would the dueling dagger, tri-bladed katar, switchblade, etc be excluded). That said, saw-toothed saber seems like a stretch. I might allow it with a small saw-toothed saber.

A custom magical sawtooth saber that can be wielded as a dagger, similar to the sun blade, would be possible.

That's all in the realm of GM discretion though.

As written you would need the ability to use a sawtooth saber specifically (or weapons like it in general) as if it were a dagger or one of the other specific weapons listed. That's just too specific on both sides for an existing option to be likely.

The problem is that Knife Master has a specific list of weapons, not a group of sort. Which means you'd need to have something that treats the Sawtoothed Sabre as specifically one of the items on the list.

Note that Knife Master is about using knife-like weapons. A sawtooth sabre is comparable to a longsword.

Sovereign Court

Are you just trying to get the larger sneak attack dice? Or 1/2 level to concealing a weapon or 1/3 levels dodge to AC (against light blades attacking you only)?

Extreme Prejudice can get you to d8s vs favored enemy groups, but will require Studied Target so at least 1 level dip in Slayer. Which has some promise.
Skulking Slayer can get you to d8s, but only when charging with a 2h weapon, which Sawtooth Sabre is not. If you go this route, you will need to clarify with your GM if wielding a weapon in 2 hands counts as a 2h weapon or if its the specific designation on the equipment chart that is the important bit. There might be some FAQ about that, but I forget where.

Stalker Vigilante can get d8s but a much more restricted circumstance.

Other than prereqs, Red Mantis Assassin has 2(ish) abilities that rely on dual-wielding. Specifically, Prayer Attack(+2 DC) and Mantis Form's ability to use the enhancement bonus of the Sabre as the enhancement bonus of each claw attack. However (the ish part), the Assassin also counts Sawtooth Sabres as light weapons for all purposes and you do not get 1 1/2 str to light weapons wielded in 2 hands. Again on the Skulking Slayer 1h weapon in 2h GM ruling.

Its also important to point out that the Red Mantis Assassin gets spells. Quite a few spells have Somatic Components meaning you need a hand free. Meaning, that they need to chose their spells carefully or just use them before they draw both weapons. Going with a single Sabre gets around that since you can change your grip as a free action.

Thanks for all the help, guys! Ultimately it looks like this character is gonna be scrapped. I was trying to help a newer player and didn't want to invalidate their decisions. If he tries a character like this again, I'll probably have to make some kind of custom feat that can change all mentions of one weapon for another and maybe a second feat to expand it to weapon groups.

Eh, that's Future Me's problem now.

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